JF-17 Thunder / FC-1 Xiaolong

[AMCA]

No it does not, you cannot change the engine or alter the airframe without asking the Russians. Try it and they will drag you under IPR clause and put fine.

AL31s come directly from Russia, so does the N011M Bars, so does the flight control and many other components. HAL is a mere assembler and NOT the maker of the plane. Even then it imports several components.

At least learn some basics on your own industry before pointing fingers and badmouthing those who you have no clue about.

Regards

Al31 are made at HAL engine Division at Koraput. The Division also produces precision components like: total gamut of Blades ranging from Compressor Rotors and Stators to Turbine Blades and Nozzle Guide Vanes, intricate Cored Magnesium Alloy Gear Casings, Compressor and Turbine Discs and Shafts, Vector Jet Nozzle parts.
Since inception, the division has manufactured and overhauled R-25, R-29B, RD-33 and AL-31FP engines to power the MiG-21 series, MiG-27M, MiG-29 and Su-30 MKI aircraft.

 

[AMCA]

No body ever claimed it to be pure indigenous project, rather a JOINT VENTURE.

AS i said, the term is grossly alien to a huge lot in your country. A case is when you brought the MKI into it, you showed you know zilch about joint projects and how they work.

We a co-developers and partners in the project, while india ONLY license assemble the MKI. India CANNOT sell it on its own without asking the Russians.

Both china and pakistan have intellectual property rights on JF-17, which means both can sell it to any one, like we did to Nigeria and they did to Myanmar, with each other's consent of course.

Just tell me one thing. Any subsystem of JF17 with pakistani origin? Any test facility, wind tunnel facility in Pakistan which was used in development process.

 

[Dazzler]

Just tell me one thing. Any subsystem of JF17 with pakistani origin? Any test facility, wind tunnel facility in Pakistan which was used in development process.

Yes, many of them, including LCD displays, comm gear, ACMI and datalinks, WMMC to name a few

 

[Dazzler]

Al31 are made at HAL engine Division at Koraput. The Division also produces precision components like: total gamut of Blades ranging from Compressor Rotors and Stators to Turbine Blades and Nozzle Guide Vanes, intricate Cored Magnesium Alloy Gear Casings, Compressor and Turbine Discs and Shafts, Vector Jet Nozzle parts.
Since inception, the division has manufactured and overhauled R-25, R-29B, RD-33 and AL-31FP engines to power the MiG-21 series, MiG-27M, MiG-29 and Su-30 MKI aircraft.

No they are NOT made there, rather assembled. You clearly see the complete engine and some nozzles separately.

 

[porky_kicker]

Yes, many of them, including LCD displays, comm gear, ACMI and datalinks, WMMC to name a few

Any source for any of them ?
name of vendors etc

 

[Dazzler]

Any source for any of them ?
................

Yes, but why should i give you a source?

 

[porky_kicker]

Yes, but why should i give you a source?

Seriously

Name of vendors , OEMs is now classified in your country.

Or just an excuse for not being there

 

[Steven Rogers]

No it does not, you cannot change the engine or alter the airframe without asking the Russians. Try it and they will drag you under IPR clause and put fine.

AL31s come directly from Russia, so does the N011M Bars, so does the flight control and many other components. HAL is a mere assembler and NOT the maker of the plane. Even then it imports several components.

At least learn some basics on your own industry before pointing fingers and badmouthing those who you have no clue about.

Regards

We altered the Aero dynamic for integration of BrahMos Cruise missile without Russian help . IPR clause is for trade of the fighter or indicating new air frame in the air force, not for modifications. The material comes from Russia not the engine, get some knowledge before acting like madrsaachap. The processor of N011M bars radar is made by us.

Sent from my Aqua Ace II using Tapatalk

 

[Steven Rogers]

Yes, many of them, including LCD displays, comm gear, ACMI and datalinks, WMMC to name a few

Yeah the same LCD panels which you assemble, and if you manufacture then please tell where you extract materials for those display panels.


Sent from my Aqua Ace II using Tapatalk

 

[Steven Rogers]

Seriously

Name of vendors , OEMs is now classified in your country.

Or just an excuse for not being there

Excuse, they don't have any OEM in their country, all are Chinese.

Sent from my Aqua Ace II using Tapatalk

 

[Steven Rogers]

This is what was in contract which allows India to overhaul their aircraft on their own, unlike some Pakistanis who claim to overhaul F16 but send their so called own aircraft to China.
http://eng.irkut.com/upload/Su-30MKI_eng.pdf

Sent from my Aqua Ace II using Tapatalk

 

[jat]

No it does not, you cannot change the engine or alter the airframe without asking the Russians. Try it and they will drag you under IPR clause and put fine.

AL31s come directly from Russia, so does the N011M Bars, so does the flight control and many other components. HAL is a mere assembler and NOT the maker of the plane. Even then it imports several components.

At least learn some basics on your own industry before pointing fingers and badmouthing those who you have no clue about.

Regards

Can't change engine with license production? You sure? Cause your chinese friends are doing it and the Russians are still selling them engines and everything except the most advanced systems.

 

[jat]

No they are NOT made there, rather assembled. You clearly see the complete engine and some nozzles separately.

No, Hal can produce the engine, problem is do they want to? The cost associated with the Al-41 engine is huge. Especially when re-engine-ning is also true. The future of the MKI line will be Pak-Fa and perhaps we will see more. Its economics. You have to admit, the JF-17 is nothing but a glorified J-7. I think it was more to do with showing off then actual economics, or military need. In the future, PAF's ability to survive strikes is limited. Focus for PAF should have been trainer aircraft, F-16s or Gripen. Instead they got pushed hard by CCP and its military industrial complex to buy something they don't need. Kind of like J-10 or J-20 with the PLAAF. PAF has basically bought 100 air frames and still haven't received a manual. Strange no?

 

[AMCA]

Yes, many of them, including LCD displays, comm gear, ACMI and datalinks, WMMC to name a few

Which company makes them or all are made at PAC Kamra? Any picture?
Meanwhile here are few indian sustems on Su30MKI.

Multi fuction display by HAL and a delhi base private company Samtel.

DRDO developed diplay system for upcoming super su30mki.

SIVA HADF

Indian Mission computer and Tarang Mk2 Radar warning reciever on Su30MKI

Missile approach warning reciever by Bharat Electronics for Super Su30

 

[porky_kicker]

Excuse, they don't have any OEM in their country, all are Chinese.

Sent from my Aqua Ace II using Tapatalk

You see if you want to judge the capability of the military industrial complex of a nation , it is more than enough to look at that countries civilian industrial complex.

Military industrial complex always rides on the capability of a civilian industrial complex and not the other way round.

This is due to better economy of scale , better sustainability in terms of finance, resources, facilities and trained manpower etc. Hence the usage of the term civil military industrial complex with regard to the defence sector capabilities.

So does Pakistan have a credible civilian industrial complex ?
If you know the answer , then you have the answer with regard to the capability of their military industrial complex.

It's so easy isn't it , nobody can hide it.

 

[Anathema]

You are right, what did the world do when your thunder with nearly 10yrs of operational experience didn't wanna compete with non inducted aircraft even after paying 500k during Bahrain airshow!!??

So much for sitting on the truck, air Marshalls of two countries flown in IOC plane of it's two seater version. A track record of no crash in it's 17 yes of flight testing and 1 yr of Operation. 6 aircrafts had clocked over 600 hrs in 7 months. How many hours J-17 does on an average!? God knows about the no of crashes....

I am curious - where are you getting this facts of Tejas completing 600 Hrs in 6 months ? The only thing i am aware of is one of the Sr pilot has completed 100+ Hr on Tejas, but thats expected since they are figuring out boundaries.

 

[cyclops]

Your MKI is just a customized SU-30MK meant for India, so you chose systems you wanted from all over the world.

Sttawman argument.

The point is we were able to add so many of our indigenous subsystems in the MKI despite it being a Russian aircraft.

What wholly pakistani subsystem were you able to integrate in the JOINT FIGHTER - 17?

JFT is a joint fighter in name only, as China continues to do all the work while you lot assemble, paint and put stickers on it and boast about "producing" it in pakistan.

Thats where the so called joint project ends. Shout as much as you like but it is nothing more than license assembly done in India. You still have to import major components from Russia for license manufacturing. Deny it all you like, thats the truth of your MKI.

What?
No one is denying it.
You are fighting windmills you weirdo.

Also no one officially calls Su-30MKI a joint project, although if we are comparing it to the JFT it might as well be called a joint project.

The point isn't if Su-30MKI is a joint India-Russia project or no, but that it has more Indian components in it than Pak has in the JF-17.

And no matter how much you cry this fact isn't going to change.

As for our capabilities, you guys are truly clueless. You seem to have no idea, thats a good thing actually, the surprise element is working.

Surprise?
LOL.

Let me tell you what's isn't a surprise.
PAF not wanting to fight IAF at all, just like during Kargil.
And here's the coup de grace, that was almost 2 decades ago, we have since then further increased the number of the very fighters that PAF refused to fight against and then some, while yours have decreased steadily suffering from various issues including Lockheed Martin not wanting to give you the fighter itself, its spare parts, etc.

You see, even if you lot beg and wish for a JFT to be a serious competition for the MKI won't make it so, but keep believing the made up non sense the likes of windpasser farts off as facts.

Forget the MKI, PAF getting cold feet is not just restricted to wars.
Maybe have the guts to field JFT in the same airshow as Tejas then cry about how JFT can match up to the Su-30MKI.

Still, FYI:this aircraft got badly damaged while doing a bombing sortie over TTP. The bomb exploded midair and WC Azman Khalil was left with a damaged plane. Turbine failed, View attachment 23593

View attachment 23592

One might say it blew up only because you went to third parties to fix it and did your own jugaad instead of to LM.

Your defence minister Khurram Dastgir Khan confirmed that PAF has been struggling with the F-16s.

The backbone of the Pakistan air force currently consists of F-16 jets made by Lockheed Martin of the US, although Mr Khan said Islamabad had not received spare parts from the US for several years.


“We are using our own ingenuity and using other sources to keep the fleet up in the air,” he said. “It has been very difficult.”
http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/...16s-are-basically-defunct.80724/#post-1401096

No they are NOT made there, rather assembled. You clearly see the complete engine and some nozzles separately.

Stop cryng already.
You pakistanis get really salty when you see us doing something you lot clearly can't do.

HAL Hands Over the 50th Raw Material Phase Engine of Su-30MKI to IAF

Bengaluru/Delhi, October 24, 2017:

The 50th AL31FP engine, manufactured from raw materials by Sukhoi Engine Division of HAL (Koraput) has been handed over to IAF in Delhi yesterday as part of celebrations of 70th year of India Russia diplomatic relationship.

“The AL31FP engine powers Su30 MKI and is manufactured from raw material stage. All the components, including heavy forgings are manufactured at HAL”, said Mr. T. Suvarna Raju, CMD, HAL. He handed over the documents related to the 50th Raw Material Phase Engine of Su-30MKI to Air Marshal S.B. Deo, VCAS.

A Coffee Table Book was also released on this occasion by Mr. A. K. Gupta, Secretary (DP) to commemorate 70 years of cooperation between HAL and Russian companies to protect the Indian sky. Speaking on the occasion Mr. Gupta pointed out the whole hearted support India has been receiving for the Russian platforms and said such a support is important in strengthening the bilateral ties.

About HAL Koraput:
The engine division is ensconced in the valleys of Koraput region in Orissa. It was set up to manufacture turbojet engines for the MiG 21FL. The first assignment taken up by the Division was to manufacture R11-F2 turbojet engine for MiG 21FL aircraft. Subsequently, the Division took up manufacturing of R11 series engines of MiG 21FL and MiG 21M aircraft, R25 series engines of MiG 21BIS aircraft, R29B engines for MiG27M aircraft and RD33 series engines for MiG29 aircraft. The Division is currently engaged in the overhaul of R25, R29B and RD33 engines. In 2004 the Sukhoi Engine Division was established and it has started manufacturing and subsequently overhauling of AL31FP engines for SU30MKI aircraft. Till date the Division has manufactured nearly 1675 engines and overhauled 7730 engines, which includes R11, R25, R29B, RD33 and AL31FP engines.

About AL31FP Engine:
It is a twin spool, axial flow, low bypass turbo fan engine incorporating After Burner System, variable area Jet Nozzle with thrust vectoring, air-to-air heat exchanger, anti-surge system. A specific feature of AL-31FP is an axi-symmetric vectoring nozzle with a thrust vector angle of ±15° in the vertical plane providing super maneuverability of the aircraft. The vectoring nozzle control is integrated with the engine control system. The AL-31FP engines ensure stable operation in all available evolutions of the aircraft in super maneuverability modes. Till date 357 engines are manufactured which includes engines of phase I to phase V.
http://www.hal-india.com/HAL Hands ...erial Phase Engine of Su-30MKI to IAF/ND__209

AL 31 FP
The Engine Division at Koraput, a unit of HAL's vast network, has the unique distinction of being one amongst the few Aero Engine manufacturers in the world.

The spectrum of manufacturing facilities extends literally from the production of nuts and bolts to discs, shafts, blades, forgings and castings - all that are required to make an Aero Engine right from the Raw materials.

This spectrum is further enlarged to include overhaul of Aero Engines for the MiG family and supply of spares required during service

R25 engine
This is a Twin Spool, Axial Flow, Turbojet Engine fitted with After burner and a variable area Jet nozzle. It powers the MiG-21 BiS multi-role Fighter Aircraft. The Engine has provision for an emergency After-burner thrust boost, which can be selected below 4.5 KM altitude.

R-29B engine
This Engine is a Twin spool, Axial flow Turbojet Engine incorporating After-burner system and variable area Jet nozzle of convergent-divergent type. The Engine is equipped with automatic Fuel regulation system, Turbo-starter, Anti-surge system, Temperature controller, Constant speed drive for AC Generator and Two speed drive for Hydraulic Pump. R-29B Engine powers MiG-27 M, a Multi-role Ground attack / Air combat Aircraft.

Precision Components

Division also produces precision components like: total gamut of Blades ranging from Compressor Rotors and Stators to Turbine Blades and Nozzle Guide Vanes, intricate Cored Magnesium Alloy Gear Casings, Compressor and Turbine Discs and Shafts, JIS class-l/DlN 5 Spur, Helical Gears and DIN 6 straight and Hypoid / Spiral Bevel Gears ranging from module 1 to 6.
http://www.hal-india.com/Engine Division Koraput/M__138

Manufacturing of New AL31FP Engines and Overhaul of AL31FP Engine & its aggregates, Supply of Spares.

The stripped components are subject to detailed micrometric and Non Destructive Testing (NDT) checks. Repair and refurbishing of worn-out parts and sub-assemblies are undertaken by skilled workmen.
Manufacturing, Repairs and Refurbishing Processes include machining, welding, hard alloy coatings, vibro-tumbling, micro-shot peening, ultrasonic strain hardening, nickel alloy powder coating and a large number of protective coatings. Assemblies and sub-assemblies undergo rigorous functional tests on various Hydraulic, Fuel and Electrical Rigs.

Quality control checks are carried out using various NDT methods, like X-ray, Magna-flux, Dye-penetrant check and ultrasonic inspection besides other conventional techniques. Overhaul of accessories is carried out in environmentally controlled rooms. All the accessories after overhaul are subjected to stringent tests on test rigs.

Every manufactured / overhauled Engine undergoes rigorous tests on Engine test beds that simulate all flight conditions.

The preliminary and final acceptance test, hot test, endurance test and gas dynamic stability tests are conducted through computerised controls.

Electronically assisted throttle, digital and analog read-outs help get real-time simultaneous data and engine parameters during AL31FP Engine testing. Repairs, Major Servicing, Supply of Spares
Since the early 1970's, the Division has been overhauling Aero Engines to make fighter Aircraft flight-worthy again for the Indian Air Force.

The Division follows the 'Flow Line Group Technology' with the Engine parts being dismantled, viewed and loaded to different work centres.

Regular follow-up through PC ensures timely completion of sub-assemblies.

The stripped components are subject to detailed micrometric and Non Destructive Testing (NDT) checks. Repair and refurbishing of worn-out parts and sub-assemblies are undertaken by skilled workmen.

Repairs and Refurbishing Processes include welding, hard alloy coatings, vibro-tumbling, micro-shot peening, ultrasonic strain hardening, nickel alloy powder coating and a large number of protective coatings. Assemblies and sub-assemblies undergo rigorous functional tests on various Hydraulic, Fuel and Electrical Rigs.

Quality control checks are carried out using various NDT methods, like X-ray, Magna-flux, Dye-penetrant check and ultrasonic inspection besides other conventional techniques. Overhaul of accessories is carried out in environmentally controlled rooms. All the accessories after overhaul are subjected to stringent tests on test rigs.

Every manufactured / overhauled Engine undergoes rigorous tests on Engine test beds that simulate all flight conditions.

The preliminary and final acceptance test, hot test, endurance test and gas dynamic stability tests are conducted through computerised controls.

Electronically assisted throttle, digital and analog read-outs help get real-time simultaneous data and engine parameters during R-29B and RD-33 Engine testing.
http://www.hal-india.com/TabbedContent.aspx?MKey=140&TKey=Services

Yes, but why should i give you a source?

.
.
.
.
.
.
.
So that we know if you are telling the truth or no.
Surely, there must be a publicly available pakistani source that confirms your claim that pak developed the said subsystems indigenously, right?

 

[AMCA]

Which company makes them or all are made at PAC Kamra? Any picture?
Meanwhile here are few indian sustems on Su30MKI.

Multi fuction display by HAL and a delhi base private company Samtel.

DRDO developed diplay system for upcoming super su30mki.

SIVA HADF

Indian Mission computer and Tarang Mk2 Radar warning reciever on Su30MKI

Missile approach warning reciever by Bharat Electronics for Super Su30

The core avionics for Su30MKI designed by the Bangalore-based Defence Avionics Research Establishment (DARE) which is a lab of DRDO consists of Mission Computers, Display Processors and Radar computers which are now manufactured by HAL'S Hyderabad Division. The other DARE product Tarang RWR which is manufactured by BEL at its Bangalore facility.
The integrated communication equipment and radar altimeters are of HAL's own design, already well proven in other aircraft applications.DRDO has been able to design the 3 on-board computers with maximum commonality of hardware and software amongst them using a modular approach to design.

 

[Dazzler]

The core avionics for Su30MKI designed by the Bangalore-based Defence Avionics Research Establishment (DARE) which is a lab of DRDO consists of Mission Computers, Display Processors and Radar computers which are now manufactured by HAL'S Hyderabad Division. The other DARE product Tarang RWR which is manufactured by BEL at its Bangalore facility.
The integrated communication equipment and radar altimeters are of HAL's own design, already well proven in other aircraft applications.DRDO has been able to design the 3 on-board computers with maximum commonality of hardware and software amongst them using a modular approach to design.

None of your bla bla proves anything. MKI is a Russian product that you assemble under license in india.

 

[Pandora]

People here wasting bandwidth to make dumbf@#ks to understand that in HAL Su 30mki is more than indigenous than the Joint FKdUP Jf17 .