JF-17 Thunder / FC-1 Xiaolong

Flame Thrower

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You guys live in fantasies. Ever heard of Home on Jam mode?
I suggest you read Rahul's post.
He is saying about shutting radar off for a few sec when you fire your own ARMs.

This might also be coupled with secondary radar at vicinity to light up for few sec and shut off thus forcing your ARM to waste it's prescious fuel and range of the missile.

Would you care to work on the scenario I gave to you!!??
 

Dazzler

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Jf 17 radar is not capable of scanning in sea. This is the reason pakis did not buy CM400akg. Paki MoDP website has last 10 years annual report. You can see all the weapons purchase made by pakis in last 10 year .
Lol, where did you bring that from? Sea state 1 and 2 are all supported. Man you guys smoke
some mythical stuff.
 

Dazzler

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I suggest you read Rahul's post.
He is saying about shutting radar off for a few sec when you fire your own ARMs.

This might also be coupled with secondary radar at vicinity to light up for few sec and shut off thus forcing your ARM to waste it's prescious fuel and range of the missile.

Would you care to work on the scenario I gave to you!!??
Thats even funnier, shutting off for a few seconds will bring what purpose? Unless the radar is mounted on a Ferrari, it will be no different. Try beating HARM, that would be something.
 

jat

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RD93 is considered as gas guzzler since its origin has history of smoking fuel in Mig29. It could have improved, but with no FADEC, the engine doesn't fits safety standards. Home design claim is too much, the design was bought from Russia in 1995 of a scraped project known single engine Mig33 light fighter.
wrong! The JF-17 is a mutilation of the J-7 which is a copy of Mig-21. Hence the name JF-17 The F-1 would be the super seven project, thats also in the name. But this would be why the JF-17 is extremely limited in build technology. Simple airframe, hardly any composites, lost of rivets. FBW in single axis, and hell C++ FBW coding. Its one of the simplest designs. Its also a low performer when it comes to sorties. When its engine gives out, it gives out and needs replacement. Same with the Mig-29. Which is why extra RD-33 engines are always around.
The reliability is big problem, it is certainly not a beginners aircraft like the J-10. Took a long time for trainer version as if its a liability. Where as the Tejas performs the task of lead in fighter trainer with its trainer version, being reliable and easy to fly thus reducing risk to pilots. JF-17 is what it is. It may not be much compared to IAF, perhaps this is the reason IAF is NOT worried about depleting squadron numbers.
 

Flame Thrower

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Thats even funnier, shutting off for a few seconds will bring what purpose? Unless the radar is mounted on a Ferrari, it will be no different. Try beating HARM, that would be something.
Explain the same in the scenario I've given to you.....
 

lcafanboy

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Not needed, stand off munitions will take care of it.
"stand off munitions"

Sure.... But from where would you fire these?:daru::daru:

Have you heard of Meteor BVRAAM it has 250kms range and India is buying these along with Rafales which also have spectra EW which can passively track enemy fighters from 450kms and jam its avionics by frying its electronics. Now total depth of porkistan is 400 KMS. Indian Rafales can track all your junk Fighters from within the Indian borders itself.:biggrin2: JF-17 won't even get a chance to be even 100kms from the border, now from where you would fire those stand off munition... from Iran......:pound::pound::pound:

:brahmos: :brahmos::brahmos: + Su30mki now that's what is called stand off munition. Whole of porkistan covered from within Indian borders itself.......:india:
 

jat

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"stand off munitions"

Sure.... But from where would you fire these?:daru::daru:

Have you heard of Meteor BVRAAM it has 250kms range and India is buying these along with Rafales which also have spectra EW which can passively track enemy fighters from 450kms and jam its avionics by frying its electronics. Now total depth of porkistan is 400 KMS. Indian Rafales can track all your junk Fighters from within the Indian borders itself.:biggrin2: JF-17 won't even get a chance to be even 100kms from the border, now from where you would fire those stand off munition... from Iran......:pound::pound::pound:

:brahmos::brahmos::brahmos: + Su30mki now that's what is called stand off munition. Whole of porkistan covered from within Indian borders itself.......:india:
Thats one thing i've been saying for a while. Pakistan doesn't need a large air force anymore. Its liability. Perhaps its not intended for India. Perhaps.
 

lcafanboy

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Thats one thing i've been saying for a while. Pakistan doesn't need a large air force anymore. Its liability. Perhaps its not intended for India. Perhaps.
Yep, porki air force now only can be used to fight Baluchistan freedom fighters, Taliban and mullahs hiding in mountains near Afghanistan. IAF is in different league now. It's like killing a fly (paf) with sledge hammer (IAF)....:pound::pound::pound:
 

Dazzler

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"stand off munitions"

Sure.... But from where would you fire these?:daru::daru:

Have you heard of Meteor BVRAAM it has 250kms range and India is buying these along with Rafales which also have spectra EW which can passively track enemy fighters from 450kms and jam its avionics by frying its electronics. Now total depth of porkistan is 400 KMS. Indian Rafales can track all your junk Fighters from within the Indian borders itself.:biggrin2: JF-17 won't even get a chance to be even 100kms from the border, now from where you would fire those stand off munition... from Iran......:pound::pound::pound:

:brahmos: :brahmos::brahmos: + Su30mki now that's what is called stand off munition. Whole of porkistan covered from within Indian borders itself.......:india:

https://quwa.org/2017/03/23/pakista...ded-range-raad-2-air-launched-cruise-missile/


During its March 23 Pakistan Day Parade, the Pakistan Strategic Plans Division (SPD) officially revealed the Ra’ad 2 (“Thunder 2”) air-launched cruise missile (ALCM).

Described as an improved and extended-range of the 350 km Ra’ad ALCM, which was introduced by Air Weapons Complex (AWC) and the National Engineering and Scientific Commission (NESCOM) in 2007, the Ra’ad 2 has a stated range of 550 km.

Notes & Comments:

With its low-detectable design and terrain-hugging capability, the sub-sonic Ra’ad ALCM series is regarded as a key piece of the Pakistani military’s deterrence strategy, specifically its second-strike ability. The Ra’ad and Babur land-attack cruise missiles (LACM) are capable of delivering miniature nuclear warheads.

External differences between the Ra’ad and Ra’ad 2 appear to be minimal, suggesting that an emphasis was made on extending the range more so than increasing payload (albeit an increase in the latter cannot be ruled out).

Although Pakistan did not yet announce tests for the Ra’ad 2, it used the end of 2016 and beginning of 2017 to announce the tests of the Babur-2 LACM and Babur-3 submarine-launched cruise missile (SLCM) respectively. These were joined by the test of the Ababeel multiple independent re-entry vehicle (MIRV)-capable medium-range ballistic missile (MRBM).

The Ra’ad ALCM-series is deployed from the Pakistan Air Force’s (PAF) Mirage III/5 aircraft.

While it aimed for strategic purposes, the Ra’ad could have the potential to serve in a conventional role. Like other conventional munitions, it can carry a conventional high-explosive warhead, which could prove useful for reinforced targets.

In the long-term, there are other ALCM-related possibilities. For example, precision-guided sub-munitions such as the BLU-105 enable the AGM-158 Joint Air-to-Surface Standoff Missile (JASSM) to engage multiple targets in an area, such as armoured formations, air fields, air defence sites, and dockyards, among others. An analogous solution could be a next-step for the Ra’ad.
 

lcafanboy

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https://quwa.org/2017/03/23/pakista...ded-range-raad-2-air-launched-cruise-missile/


During its March 23 Pakistan Day Parade, the Pakistan Strategic Plans Division (SPD) officially revealed the Ra’ad 2 (“Thunder 2”) air-launched cruise missile (ALCM).

Described as an improved and extended-range of the 350 km Ra’ad ALCM, which was introduced by Air Weapons Complex (AWC) and the National Engineering and Scientific Commission (NESCOM) in 2007, the Ra’ad 2 has a stated range of 550 km.

Notes & Comments:

With its low-detectable design and terrain-hugging capability, the sub-sonic Ra’ad ALCM series is regarded as a key piece of the Pakistani military’s deterrence strategy, specifically its second-strike ability. The Ra’ad and Babur land-attack cruise missiles (LACM) are capable of delivering miniature nuclear warheads.

External differences between the Ra’ad and Ra’ad 2 appear to be minimal, suggesting that an emphasis was made on extending the range more so than increasing payload (albeit an increase in the latter cannot be ruled out).

Although Pakistan did not yet announce tests for the Ra’ad 2, it used the end of 2016 and beginning of 2017 to announce the tests of the Babur-2 LACM and Babur-3 submarine-launched cruise missile (SLCM) respectively. These were joined by the test of the Ababeel multiple independent re-entry vehicle (MIRV)-capable medium-range ballistic missile (MRBM).

The Ra’ad ALCM-series is deployed from the Pakistan Air Force’s (PAF) Mirage III/5 aircraft.

While it aimed for strategic purposes, the Ra’ad could have the potential to serve in a conventional role. Like other conventional munitions, it can carry a conventional high-explosive warhead, which could prove useful for reinforced targets.

In the long-term, there are other ALCM-related possibilities. For example, precision-guided sub-munitions such as the BLU-105 enable the AGM-158 Joint Air-to-Surface Standoff Missile (JASSM) to engage multiple targets in an area, such as armoured formations, air fields, air defence sites, and dockyards, among others. An analogous solution could be a next-step for the Ra’ad.
Whether it is Raand1 or Raand2 or any of the historical invader named Chinese Abba-ki-bulee junk missiles it doesn't matter.

My question is when the entire porki air space is sanitized and no fly zone established by IAF how will you people launch these.:):):)
 

rone

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Ever heard of Erotomnia? Perhaps you didnt, here have a read...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erotomania
Dude it's better to have ur reality check.. wether u have to use harm u have to be in medium or high altitude ..Becoz harm wrk in manner like semi ballistic trajectory not like a conventional missile..So if ur at only 400 km range and most of ur air assets getting scanned every second by aewc's and long range air petroling how u suggest to launch harm from ur air space ,


Ps: harm can only used while effective air defence is down..Other wise air defence battery will engane... Example desert Strom..
 
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Kalki_2018

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Why is a third gen fighter like JF-17 even being discussed here? That garbage will only be fielded by desperate penniless beggars like PAF.
 

sthf

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The flight profile, flight time and payload are right there for anyone with the eyes to see them. 1800km flying a high high high flight profile for a 3.5 hr flight time carrying two 1100 litter tanks, a single 800 litter centerline tank, 2 MRAAMs and 2 SRAAMs. Or an air-to-ground payload of 4 x 250kg and 2 SRAAMs on a medium - low - low - high flight profile.
Do you have trouble reading?

  • I asked about the anti ship role. Did you find that question incomprehensible?
  • 1800 km and 3500 range are without armaments. As is the standard practice across the world.
  • Flight profiles given on that low resolution image of the poster doesn't provide a readable range. Unless the redoubtable Chinis have come up with a technological breakthrough where the drag and weight penalty of AAMs and bombs are equal.
As @shiphone pointed out, combat radius is usually 1/3 of a combat jets loaded range figure, coming to 600km for both configurations. IDK how exactly a 600km Combat radius figure turns the JF17 into a 60s platform, but suit yourself. Export customers and Pakistan seem to find its performance acceptable. Thats not even factoring in block ii's inflight refueling capability.
  • @shiphone stated his opinion. Opinions are not facts.
  • Mirage Vs disagree with you.
  • Export customers is a cop out. Hawk 200 has export customers too. Doesn't mean that it is a formidable platform.
  • Pakistan has a limited number of air to air refuellers and will be hard pressed to provide service 300 km outside of Paki airspace. Especially when MKIs out of Bhuj, Jamnagar or Pune airbases are conducting CAP over international waters of Arabian Sea.

180km range, sea skimming, subsonic ASMs have been inducted by navies and air forces the world over for their cost effectiveness and significant offensive capabilities. It's not brahmos or nothing gents, otherwise the IN wouldn't bother with subsonic ASMs; and none of the INs subsonic ASMs are stealthy either, so I fail to grasp your argument here.
Its not Brahmos or go home. Its the hilariousness of the Paki MAINSTAY failing to achieve what Jaguar did in the 1980s i.e. carrying a subsonic AShM on centerline hard point. Indian Navy mainstay is Mig-29K. Pakis have to take on aircraft carriers full of Mig-29Ks 500 km from home not India. India can bomb Paki ports without an air force.

A≠B.
 

J20!

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Do you have trouble reading?

  • I asked about the anti ship role. Did you find that question incomprehensible?
  • 1800 km and 3500 range are without armaments. As is the standard practice across the world.
  • Flight profiles given on that low resolution image of the poster doesn't provide a readable range. Unless the redoubtable Chinis have come up with a technological breakthrough where the drag and weight penalty of AAMs and bombs are equal.


  • @shiphone stated his opinion. Opinions are not facts.
  • Mirage Vs disagree with you.
  • Export customers is a cop out. Hawk 200 has export customers too. Doesn't mean that it is a formidable platform.
  • Pakistan has a limited number of air to air refuellers and will be hard pressed to provide service 300 km outside of Paki airspace. Especially when MKIs out of Bhuj, Jamnagar or Pune airbases are conducting CAP over international waters of Arabian Sea.



Its not Brahmos or go home. Its the hilariousness of the Paki MAINSTAY failing to achieve what Jaguar did in the 1980s i.e. carrying a subsonic AShM on centerline hard point. Indian Navy mainstay is Mig-29K. Pakis have to take on aircraft carriers full of Mig-29Ks 500 km from home not India. India can bomb Paki ports without an air force.

A≠B.
Your biggest problem is trying to ridicule JF17 for not being a Jaguar or a Mig 29. Different designs different capabilities.

JF17 is a light multi role combat jet. It is obviously not going to haul the same amount of ordinance to the same ranges that a twin engine medium weight Mig 29 can or a twin engine jet designed almost exclusively for air to ground combat like the Jaguar.

Hawk 200 has export orders because it is a capability in demand with air forces accross the world. JF17 has export orders because its a capability that satisfies the requirement of certain air forces around the world.

Quite conspicuously, I don't see you attributing the capabilities you mock the JF17 for lacking to its Indian counterpart Tejas... is Tejas any less capable because it can't haul the same amount of ordinance as an 80's era Tornado? Try arguments that don't reek of fanboyism.

JF17 in the anti ship role is replacing the Mirage5PA3 and exocet combo:







New airframes. BVR capability whilst in the Anti-ship role. Easier maintenance and easier access to spares and upgrades considering that JF17 is built in house. Datalinks to supporting ZDK 03 AEW&C aircraft.

In either configuration, the switch to JF17 is qualitative improvement to the existing anti-ship capabilities of the Pakistani air Force.
 
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IndiaRising

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Patience is a virtue, it will come so keep waiting, and get something more useful instead of pallet guns.
haha, this is the same dialogue we have been hearing for 70 years. nothing has changed. the only constant is you getting slapped every once in a while
 

Adioz

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Patience is a virtue, it will come so keep waiting, and get something more useful instead of pallet guns.
We did get something better than pellet guns. ATAGS. Its a pity, though. We will use ATAGS on you slaves and your Chinese masters, not on the stone-pelters.
BTW, ATAGS just achieved a 55 km range in winter trials in Sikkim.
ATAGS had achieved 48 km range during summer trials in the Thar desert last year. That was a world record.
And the real target if DRDO is to make this gun hit 60 km.
And before you start, these ranges were achieved without the use of rocket assisted projectiles. Good luck attempting ceasefire violations once this gun enters service in 2021.
 

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