JF-17 Thunder / FC-1 Xiaolong

Steven Rogers

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How exactly is a 70km missile going to intercept an aerial platform launching from 200+ km away? The best such a medium range SAM could do is try intercept the CM-400AKG no?

Or does the IN have plans to integrate S400 onto its Air Defense ships?
Neither CM400AKG has depressed trajectory, nor it has required propulsion to sustain any hypersonic flight, keep up with Chinese propaganda and fool them who can easily be , but at the end of the day, it is rocket motor propulsion which at long ranges will itself get exhausted to maintain any "hypersonic " flight. When world moved towards Ramjets and turbofans, these guys went back to 60s to design a semi ballastic trajectory cruise missile which is being retired now by many countries .

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nongaddarliberal

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How exactly is a 70km missile going to intercept an aerial platform launching from 200+ km away? The best such a medium range SAM could do is try intercept the CM-400AKG no?

Or does the IN have plans to integrate S400 onto its Air Defense ships?
Im saying pakistani fighters flying towards missions against Indian CBG's wont even be able to get beyond pakistan. The land based s400 is enough for that.
 

binayak95

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Im saying pakistani fighters flying towards missions against Indian CBG's wont even be able to get beyond pakistan. The land based s400 is enough for that.
That is assuming any Pakistani strike package has a runway to take off from. In the event of any conflict, Pakistani airfields and hangars will be little more than smoking rubble from the dozens of BrahMos missiles that will be sent minutes after a full-scale war brakes out.

Best of luck to the PAF to try and even get planes in the air to defend their skies!!
 

J20!

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Lol, @J20! is here to provide after sales services to the Porkies. This includes CPP feature (CPP: Continuous Propaganda Propagation)
Aside from the silly addendum, nice post.

If "propaganda propagation" is pointing out the simple math that a 70km Barak 8 CANNOT intercept the launching platform at 200+km away , then yes.

Indians fanboys have this habit of mixing nationalism with facts. Yes, a single or multiple Barak 8 at Mach 2 may be able to intercept a CM-400AKG when it gets into range, but a 70km range SAM is not going to intercept a JF17 launching from 200+km away.

How does Chinese Ships defend against a 290km Brahmos, or 450km one ? And what is behind this dumb logic that the interceptor has to be always present near the target. The whole reason behind area defense is neutrality of huge areas in air, a 90km range Barak 8 means, 90 km radius circles covered, add two ships two circles cover a length of total 360 km.

And this length is enough to cover all approach of Pakistan towards Indian coasts.

Then comes COAP of Mig 29Ks which can cover 1000km or keep in a radius of ~600km to prevent any Pakistani activity in the sea, and here I am not even talking about Su30MKI.
Chinese Navy AAW destroyers carry LONG RANGE air defense missile systems mate. Interceptors with 100km+ ranges that can shoot down high flying ASM's like Brahmos in its high altitude cruise phase. I'm not claiming impossible nonsense unlike some.

Don't prate Wikipedia figures at me mate. Both the land-based (MRSAM) and naval Barak 8 have the same 70km range Chief. Neither of which can magically intercept a JF17 from 200+km away.

The missile will have a length of about 4.5m, diameter of 0.54m and a wingspan of 0.94m. It can travel at a maximum speed of Mach 2, with an operational range of 70km.
http://www.janes.com/article/69434/india-signs-mrsam-deal

The contract includes a USD1.6 billion procurement of the 70 km range MRSAM
2 ships with 70km range missile could create a 140km buffer around a carrier from certain approaches. Where are you getting this 360km figure from?
 
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J20!

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Neither CM400AKG has depressed trajectory, nor it has required propulsion to sustain any hypersonic flight, keep up with Chinese propaganda and fool them who can easily be , but at the end of the day, it is rocket motor propulsion which at long ranges will itself get exhausted to maintain any "hypersonic " flight. When world moved towards Ramjets and turbofans, these guys went back to 60s to design a semi ballastic trajectory cruise missile which is being retired now by many countries .

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The CM-400AKG is not an anti-ship missile. It's an air-launched variant of the SY-400 short range ballistic missile system. It was never designed to have a "depressed trajectory" nor is it an air-breathing missile. Its ballistic all the way.

The people crying "Chinese propaganda" here are usually the ones dishing out the wrong information. Which retired 60's "semi-ballistic trajectory cruise missile" designs are you referring to?
 

J20!

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Im saying pakistani fighters flying towards missions against Indian CBG's wont even be able to get beyond pakistan. The land based s400 is enough for that.
So the S400 is going to shoot down Pakistani anti-ship strike formations from the coast? Why would they expose themselves to land-based surface to air fire if they are attacking naval formations out to sea?

You're making very little sense mate.
 

Steven Rogers

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Aside from the silly addendum, nice post.

If "propaganda propagation" is pointing out the simple math that a 70km Barak 8 CANNOT intercept the launching platform at 200+km away , then yes.

Indians fanboys have this habit of mixing nationalism with facts. Yes, a single or multiple Barak 8 at Mach 2 may be able to intercept a CM-400AKG when it gets into range, but a 70km range SAM is not going to intercept a JF17 launching from 200+km away.



Chinese Navy AAW destroyers carry LONG RANGE air defense missile systems mate. Interceptors with 100km+ ranges that can shoot down high flying ASM's like Brahmos in its high altitude cruise phase. I'm not claiming impossible nonsense unlike some.

Don't prate Wikipedia figures at me mate. Both the land-based (MRSAM) and naval Barak 8 have the same 70km range Chief. Neither of which can magically intercept a JF17 from 200+km away.



http://www.janes.com/article/69434/india-signs-mrsam-deal



2 ships with 70km range missile could create a 140km bubble around a carrier from certain approaches. Where are you getting this 360km figure from?
"Max. Speed of Mach 2" that's called ill informed media,
http://ajaishukla.blogspot.com/2015/12/lr-sam-operationalised-indian-navy.html
Mach 2 is the mid phase speed while the it engages at speed Mach 5-7 variable. It has dual pulse rocket motor to aid that speed in terminal unlike some one claiming a hypersonic missile with traditional rocket motors which have high burnout rate at higher the speed goes. Comes to range the LRSAM on board Indian naval ships have range of 90-100kms.
https://thediplomat.com/2017/09/ind...to-air-missile/?_e_pi_=7,PAGE_ID10,5501631061
And Range of 150kms with added booster, if required.
Don't be so silly, a CBG has 3 Indian navy destroyers D63, D64, D65, carrying barak 8 providing cover from all direction, then have Russian Admiral Gorshkov class(3 in nos ) to provide support,these 6 potent ships are enough to defend a CBG, however I missed replenishment ship and underwater vessel.

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Steven Rogers

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So the S400 is going to shoot down Pakistani anti-ship strike formations from the coast? Why would they expose themselves to land-based surface to air fire if they are attacking naval formations out to sea?

You're making very little sense mate.
And as like they will fly towards CBG and none of the ships will get early warning, as like none of the Mig29k armed with long range BVRAAM, will be on mission while CBG is moving.

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Steven Rogers

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The CM-400AKG is not an anti-ship missile. It's an air-launched variant of the SY-400 short range ballistic missile system. It was never designed to have a "depressed trajectory" nor is it an air-breathing missile. Its ballistic all the way.

The people crying "Chinese propaganda" here are usually the ones dishing out the wrong information. Which retired 60's "semi-ballistic trajectory cruise missile" designs are you referring to?
Not anti-ship, but carrier killer, French, American, British........

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J20!

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"Max. Speed of Mach 2" that's called ill informed media,
http://ajaishukla.blogspot.com/2015/12/lr-sam-operationalised-indian-navy.html
Mach 2 is the mid phase speed while the it engages at speed Mach 5-7 variable. It has dual pulse rocket motor to aid that speed in terminal unlike some one claiming a hypersonic missile with traditional rocket motors which have high burnout rate at higher the speed goes. Comes to range the LRSAM on board Indian naval ships have range of 90-100kms.
https://thediplomat.com/2017/09/indias-navy-receives-first-locally-produced-long-range-surface-to-air-missile/?_e_pi_=7,PAGE_ID10,5501631061
And Range of 150kms with added booster, if required.
Don't be so silly, a CBG has 3 Indian navy destroyers D63, D64, D65, carrying barak 8 providing cover from all direction, then have Russian Admiral Gorshkov class(3 in nos ) to provide support,these 6 potent ships are enough to defend a CBG, however I missed replenishment ship and underwater vessel.

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You're tripping over your own designations. Barak 8 installed on D63, D64 and D65 are all 70km range SAMs. From your own source:

In a giant capability boost for the Indian Navy, a naval warship today test-fired a new missile that can shoot down incoming aerial threats --- such as aircraft and missiles --- whilst they are still 70 kilometres away.
LRSAM/Barak 8-ER is NOT in service with the IN. People here tend to confuse future improvements with facts on the ground(or the sea in this case).
 

J20!

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Not anti-ship, but carrier killer, French, American, British........

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Carrier killer what? the term "Carrier killer" is tabloid spin, not an actual designation. Please elaborate on which actual "French, American, British" missiles you''re talking about.
 

Steven Rogers

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You're tripping over your own designations. Barak 8 installed on D63, D64 and D65 are all 70km range SAMs. From your own source:



LRSAM/Barak 8-ER is NOT in service with the IN. People here tend to confuse future improvements with facts on the ground(or the sea in this case).
Locally produced was inducted last year, while first barak 8 is online since 2015 with D63,
http://indianexpress.com/article/in...-barak-8-long-range-missile-from-ins-kolkata/
sorry but since the beginning of 2017 the so called improvement in range surfaced, during Aero India it was confirmed that the range is now around 90-100kms, work started in 2015
https://www.livefistdefence.com/201...rsam-range.html?_e_pi_=7,PAGE_ID10,9444633620
https://thediplomat.com/2017/09/ind...to-air-missile/?_e_pi_=7,PAGE_ID10,8058815009

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J20!

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And as like they will fly towards CBG and none of the ships will get early warning, as like none of the Mig29k armed with long range BVRAAM, will be on mission while CBG is moving.

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Calm down and read what I wrote Chief.

I am disputing @nongaddarliberal 's claim that Barak 8 can shoot down any aerial platform launching from 200+km away. Or that land-based S400's can protect a carrier at sea from ASM carrying jets. Both are simply unrealistic at best and just impossibilities.
 

Steven Rogers

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Carrier killer what? the term "Carrier killer" is tabloid spin, not an actual designation. Please elaborate on which actual "French, American, British" missiles you''re talking about.
AS34 kormoron, SSM N8 REGULUS, and many other cruise missiles which use a rocket motor than a jet engine. Thus can't sustain the speed they claim.

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Steven Rogers

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Calm down and read what I wrote Chief.

I am disputing @nongaddarliberal 's claim that Barak 8 can shoot down any aerial platform launching from 200+km away. Or that land-based S400's can protect a carrier at sea from ASM carrying jets. Both are simply unrealistic at best and just impossibilities.
That's exaggerated claim, the so called s400(For which the deal is in limbo) will not be deployed in the shores of Guzrat, it's for the airforce not for navy.

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J20!

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Locally produced was inducted last year, while first barak 8 is online since 2015 with D63,
http://indianexpress.com/article/in...-barak-8-long-range-missile-from-ins-kolkata/
sorry but since the beginning of 2017 the so called improvement in range surfaced, during Aero India it was confirmed that the range is now around 90-100kms, work started in 2015
https://www.livefistdefence.com/2015/09/exclusive-indo-israeli-lrsam-range.html?_e_pi_=7,PAGE_ID10,9444633620
https://thediplomat.com/2017/09/indias-navy-receives-first-locally-produced-long-range-surface-to-air-missile/?_e_pi_=7,PAGE_ID10,8058815009

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Again, your media consistently trips over itself with simple designations.

http://indianexpress.com/article/in...-barak-8-long-range-missile-from-ins-kolkata/

In a boost to India’s maritime prowess, the Navy today successfully test-fired the nearly 70 KM range Surface to Air Missile Barak 8 from INS Kolkata, paving the way for installation of the system, developed jointly by India and Israel, on board country’s frontline warships.
Barak 8ER IS NOT OPERATIONAL neither is its army counterpart LRSAM. And even if it was, neither could intercept a launching platform from 200+ km.
 

Steven Rogers

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You're tripping over your own designations. Barak 8 installed on D63, D64 and D65 are all 70km range SAMs. From your own source:



LRSAM/Barak 8-ER is NOT in service with the IN. People here tend to confuse future improvements with facts on the ground(or the sea in this case).
That blog is written in 2015, while the range related update came in in 2017.

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