JF-17 Thunder / FC-1 Xiaolong

indiazain

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Why the JF17 that the PORKIS use is a shit hole of an aircraft (Whatever block it may be).

1) It has poor use of composites -High RADAR cross section
2) Not an all axis flyby wire system -- Most commercial airlines have this except the 737 ..The reason they dont incorporate this is to reduce the weight otherwise the aircraft will not be flyable.When you start making compromises your aircraft is a compromises

3) Based on an Outdated Mig21 design and sold as Multi role. -Extremely high landing and takeoff speeds
4) No combat experience other than airshows
5) Worst turning radius of any active fighter aircraft
6) Poor trust to weight Ratio -- Poor and unreliable Engine (because it is a single Russian engine )
7) No RADAR observing paint
8) Extremely poor EW suit
9) Although the Porkis claim that the aircraft is indigenous it is actually supplied as knock down kits by the Chinese -- Porkis are light years away from understanding the aerodynamics required to power a plane let alone a fighter jet.
10) The biggest plus point of this aircraft is that the Chinese are making good money of shit cum junk that porkis are giving them.
11) Common sence dictated that JF17 (whatever block) is no match for a f16 -a block and its role as a 3 generation aircraft is permanent and by just adding a AESA Radar it does not become 4th generation. Of course this well beyond the understanding of Porkis as usual.
 

Kalki_2018

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They use it because they cannot afford anything else. Russia and china will not provide their own aircrafts as aid. They want money in return. So pakis who are used to 50 yr old Mirage-III's and F-6/7 are more than happy to finally get some aircraft. Its more about have an airforce for internal conflicts than being able to fight an external war.
 

Armand2REP

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Massively off-topic, but this is getting ridiculous.
@Armand2REP has started a fake news trend on DFI. When exactly did any H6 bomber crash this or last year? Did it happen on the same day as the "C919 crash"?

That's a heavily edited version of Henri K's article:

Note that the Chinese military has already lost 10 aircraft in the year of 2017, among which are a J-10AH, a J-11BH and a J-15 of the navy, a J-10S two-seater, two J-10A and a JH-7A fighter bomber of the Air Force, as well as a JL-8 from the Air Force Aviation School and an Army Mi-171 helicopter. 7 pilots died.

And with a new training program that has just been published by the Central Military Commission, which further intensifies the training topics to be even closer to the actual fights, we could already foresee a possible increase of the accidents. of this kind in the next two years.

To be continued.

Henri K.


http://www.eastpendulum.com/crash-dun-brouilleur-longue-portee-y-8g-faisant-12-morts

Nowhere in that article does Mr. Kenhmann mention "government secrecy hiding such incidents" - spin from our resident bullsh*t factory @Armand2REP - or any H6 crash.

And since that or any article doesn't mention a JF17 crash, youre off-topic. Take your nonsense to another thread.
You really have to blame your own government. The CCP has yet to confirm what type of plane went down and how many people lost their lives.

As far as Henri K's article the only quote I made was the list of aviation assets lost and casualties which I left in italics. The rest was plain text with a *** indicating the separation I know that you are upset that I used your favourite source to talk about something you are uncomfortable with but some times you just have to face facts.

I never said anything about an H-6 because that was 2018 and the topic of my thread was 2017.
 

Steven Rogers

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Massively off-topic, but this is getting ridiculous.

@Armand2REP has started a fake news trend on DFI. When exactly did any H6 bomber crash this or last year? Did it happen on the same day as the "C919 crash"?

That's a heavily edited version of Henri K's article:

Note that the Chinese military has already lost 10 aircraft in the year of 2017, among which are a J-10AH, a J-11BH and a J-15 of the navy, a J-10S two-seater, two J-10A and a JH-7A fighter bomber of the Air Force, as well as a JL-8 from the Air Force Aviation School and an Army Mi-171 helicopter. 7 pilots died.

And with a new training program that has just been published by the Central Military Commission, which further intensifies the training topics to be even closer to the actual fights, we could already foresee a possible increase of the accidents. of this kind in the next two years.

To be continued.

Henri K.


http://www.eastpendulum.com/crash-dun-brouilleur-longue-portee-y-8g-faisant-12-morts

Nowhere in that article does Mr. Kenhmann mention "government secrecy hiding such incidents" - spin from our resident bullsh*t factory @Armand2REP - or any H6 crash.

And since that or any article doesn't mention a JF17 crash, youre off-topic. Take your nonsense to another thread.
How many hours Jf17 flies, last I heard, all the three known (speculated to be more than that) crashes has claimed the life of their ACE pilots not rookies. JF17 anyways after 10 years of service, still was struggling to match flight hours avg fighter operational achieves. These are only good at shooting drones and firing a combo of Chinese made super advance missiles on a slow moving target with no jamming and decoys.

Sent from my Aqua Ace II using Tapatalk
 

Armand2REP

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How many hours Jf17 flies, last I heard, all the three known (speculated to be more than that) crashes has claimed the life of their ACE pilots not rookies. JF17 anyways after 10 years of service, still was struggling to match flight hours avg fighter operational achieves. These are only good at shooting drones and firing a combo of Chinese made super advance missiles on a slow moving target with no jamming and decoys.

Sent from my Aqua Ace II using Tapatalk
19,000 flight hours from 2011- 2017 over 65 airframes = 48.7 hours per aircraft annually.

https://quwa.org/2016/04/29/jf-17-logs-19000-operational-flight-hours/
 

J20!

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You really have to blame your own government. The CCP has yet to confirm what type of plane went down and how many people lost their lives.

As far as Henri K's article the only quote I made was the list of aviation assets lost and casualties which I left in italics. The rest was plain text with a *** indicating the separation I know that you are upset that I used your favourite source to talk about something you are uncomfortable with but some times you just have to face facts.

I never said anything about an H-6 because that was 2018 and the topic of my thread was 2017.
Whatever you say mate. I've seen enough of your posts not to expect integrity from you.

I posted that article, why would crashes make me uncomfortable? The same article that quotes the PLAAF describing a Y8 crash that killed 12 people whose names are then listed. There is no mention of any H6 crash nor any C919 crash that killed 43 people whose bodies were incinerated as you were claiming. Please provide a source for either... *again, not holding my breath*

You just cherry-picked the part of the article detailing all Chinese military crashes in 2017 and started a thread you thought would throw a negative light on the Chinese military. It's not a secret mate. Military crashes happen. For Indians, you and @Steven Rogers are very holier than thou about it.

No more off-topic posting from me henceforth.
 

Steven Rogers

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Whatever you say mate. I've seen enough of your posts not to expect integrity from you.

I posted that article, why would crashes make me uncomfortable? The same article that quotes the PLAAF describing a Y8 crash that killed 12 people whose names are then listed. There is no mention of any H6 crash nor any C919 crash that killed 43 people whose bodies were incinerated as you were claiming. Please provide a source for either... *again, not holding my breath*

You just cherry-picked the part of the article detailing all Chinese military crashes in 2017 and started a thread you thought would throw a negative light on the Chinese military. It's not a secret mate. Military crashes happen. For Indians, you and @Steven Rogers are very holier than thou about it.

No more off-topic posting from me henceforth.
As like theirs been public record on any of Chinese crashes. Why Chinese airforce needs to hide their crash.

Sent from my Aqua Ace II using Tapatalk
 

Sancho

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They use it because they cannot afford anything else. Russia and china will not provide their own aircrafts as aid. They want money in return. So pakis who are used to 50 yr old Mirage-III's and F-6/7 are more than happy to finally get some aircraft. Its more about have an airforce for internal conflicts than being able to fight an external war.
That's the common misconception about the fighter and PAF. Exactly because they had import restrictions by the US, Russia and most likely even on Chinese Flankers, they chose to move around these capability restrictions by teaming up for a fighter development, where they can add weapons, systems and capabilities, that are available to them.
People confuse PAFs F16s as the more capable fighter, but based on capabilities available for US or NATO countries. But neither did they had the most capable US AAMs, nor SEAD or stand off range land attack capability, because the US government didn't approved them.
JF 17 on the other hand, has Chinese stand off land and maritime attack weapons, integrated ARMs from Brazil, now gets S.African refuelling probe, which makes them compatible to IL78 tankers (while F16s are dependent on their own fuel tanks), just as the custom avionics and data links makes them compatible to Chinese made AWACS too (again probably not the case with F16s).
So while JF 17 might not be a top class fighter, it dramatically expanded PAFs capabilities, with offensive weapons, modern network centric tactics and extended range and endurance, that are clearly not aimed at internal conflicts only.

It's a force multiplier, not a unique fighter and the more upgrades it gets, the more advantages it brings to PAF as a whole.
 

undeadmyrmidon

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That's the common misconception about the fighter and PAF. Exactly because they had import restrictions by the US, Russia and most likely even on Chinese Flankers, they chose to move around these capability restrictions by teaming up for a fighter development, where they can add weapons, systems and capabilities, that are available to them.
People confuse PAFs F16s as the more capable fighter, but based on capabilities available for US or NATO countries. But neither did they had the most capable US AAMs, nor SEAD or stand off range land attack capability, because the US government didn't approved them.
JF 17 on the other hand, has Chinese stand off land and maritime attack weapons, integrated ARMs from Brazil, now gets S.African refuelling probe, which makes them compatible to IL78 tankers (while F16s are dependent on their own fuel tanks), just as the custom avionics and data links makes them compatible to Chinese made AWACS too (again probably not the case with F16s).
So while JF 17 might not be a top class fighter, it dramatically expanded PAFs capabilities, with offensive weapons, modern network centric tactics and extended range and endurance, that are clearly not aimed at internal conflicts only.

It's a force multiplier, not a unique fighter and the more upgrades it gets, the more advantages it brings to PAF as a whole.
JF 17 has no credibility next to even LCA Tejas a fighter the IAF treats as illegitimate. No HMDS, DFCS, T/W, WLD, FLIR, FBW, Composites, etc. Infact for an air force with so few fighters PAF has too many AWACS. F 16C/D Blk 52 was and will remain PAF's core strength for foreseeable future. Even that is in doldrums.

https://www.ft.com/content/81aea830-0238-11e8-9650-9c0ad2d7c5b5
 

Armand2REP

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JF 17 on the other hand, has Chinese stand off land and maritime attack weapons, integrated ARMs from Brazil, now gets S.African refuelling probe, which makes them compatible to IL78 tankers (while F16s are dependent on their own fuel tanks), just as the custom avionics and data links makes them compatible to Chinese made AWACS too (again probably not the case with F16s).
The Block II has a Chinese refueling probe.

The C-705 did a good job embarrassing the Indonesian President when one failed to fire, then took off 5 minutes later almost killing a crew member and the other missile's motor failed after 10km. 0 for 2 means 0% kill probability. If you are going to mention that Kh-31 clone save it, if they can't develop the 704 Exocet clone into a working 705, there is no chance that one will work.

The MAR-1 never completed its qualifications much less integration and is sitting in budgetary limbo.

"Here in Brazil, we had eight successful shots SEA, and one directly hit the antenna," said Wagner Silva do Amaral, the Quality Mectron Engineering. "We wanted to start testing with the antenna working dynamically, but budgetary constraints prevented us from continuing the approval process." http://bit.ly/2C4yGYt

Chinese data links are so bad Pakistan developed their own Link 17.

So while JF 17 might not be a top class fighter, it dramatically expanded PAFs capabilities, with offensive weapons, modern network centric tactics and extended range and endurance, that are clearly not aimed at internal conflicts only.

It's a force multiplier, not a unique fighter and the more upgrades it gets, the more advantages it brings to PAF as a whole.
It is many things on paper, but with only 48 hours of flight time per year, it doesn't look like they are training for much of anything.
 

indiazain

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Pak "Indigenous" JF-17 being sent to Pakistan from China
Not just that that C17 belongs to UAE it has only 3 engines...Also As per the porki defence forum apparently one engine of the C17 is being overhauled on the Tarmac...
 

Sancho

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JF 17 has no credibility ...F 16C/D Blk 52 was and will remain PAF's core strength for foreseeable future.
As I said, that's the common misconception, but just as IAF showed USAF, that even a low end Mig 21 with the right capabilities and external support can be a credible opponent, PAF can use a 4th gen JF17 with AWACS and tanker support and far better capabilities than the limited F16, to combine it good defensive and offensive tactics.

An F16 that is limited to basic air defence and strike capabilities, or the use of force multipliers, is limited in it's operations. It relis on it's own radar mainly to detect sir targets and need to cross into our airspace to do strikes.
JF 17 benefits from long range AWACS guidance and can use stand off strike weapons even within their own airspace, to attack us.

Tactics and the combination of assets, instead of individual capability.
 

Sancho

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The Block II has a Chinese refueling probe.
In the recent prototypes, the initial once that PAF tested were either sourced or jointly developed with S. African support. Not sure if they changed it completely for JF17 and FC1, or if PAF gets an own version. Either way, it shows the improved freedom PAF has now, without being dependent on what the US allows them with the F16s.
 

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