JF-17 Thunder / FC-1 Xiaolong

[ersakthivel]

another...

It has been reported in an old ACTIG article that thunder has just 12 deg STR. same as Mig-21.

True or false?

if it has a higher STR did it prove it in any airshow?

Recently tejas mk-1 with a 6G and 20 deg AOA restriction pulled a vertical loop in about 20 seconds, meaning a vertical STR of 18 deg even with restrictions on. It has a fabulously low wing loading and higher TWR than thunder.

What is the time taken for pulling vertical loop by thunder,

As far as I know the JF-17 has not completed a single full vertical or horizontal loop in any airshow. if it did post the video.

I this video you have posted it completes a half vertical loop in 12 seconds even with fully operational flight regime. mysteriously it pulls out at three fourth of the loop without completing it!!!!!!!

What is the reason ? Even if we take multiply the 12 seconds by two to arrive at time taken for full vertical loop it gives us a 24 second loop. A 15 deg per second STR way lower than tejas 18 deg per second STR even with partially opened flight envelope of 6 Gs and 20 deg AOA.

note the full capacaity of tejas mk-1 is 24 to 26 deg AOA along with 8gs.

 

[ersakthivel]

@ dubai airshow 2013..

Even in this video it takes 28 seconds for the full horizontal loop (from 0:48 seconds to 1:16 seconds or from 0:52 seconds to 1:20 seconds ) giving it as STR of below 13 deg.essentially mig-21 class

 

[Dazzler]

It has been reported in an old ACTIG article that thunder has just 12 deg STR. same as Mig-21.

True or false?

if it has a higher STR did it prove it in any airshow?

Recently tejas mk-1 with a 6G and 20 deg AOA restriction pulled a vertical loop in about 20 seconds, meaning a vertical STR of 18 deg even with restrictions on. It has a fabulously low wing loading and higher TWR than thunder.

What is the time taken for pulling vertical loop by thunder,

As far as I know the JF-17 has not completed a single full vertical or horizontal loop in any airshow. if it did post the video.

I this video you have posted it completes a half vertical loop in 12 seconds even with fully operational flight regime. mysteriously it pulls out at three fourth of the loop without completing it!!!!!!!

What is the reason ? Even if we take multiply the 12 seconds by two to arrive at time taken for full vertical loop it gives us a 24 second loop. A 15 deg per second STR way lower than tejas 18 deg per second STR even with partially opened flight envelope of 6 Gs and 20 deg AOA.

note the full capacaity of tejas mk-1 is 24 to 26 deg AOA along with 8gs.

an insecure post to say the least since tejas was not even mentioned in my post, you seem to have an obsession with it i think

On a serious note, your comparision with M-21 is ridiculous at best, Agility = transition from one maneuver to another, the less time a plane takes in that transition, the more agile it is considered. Mig-21 is has poor agility, especially at low speeds, kodus to delta wing design and a lack of FBW.

This videos below says it all, a Romanian Lancer trying to prove its agility, note there is no bare slow pass let alone one with airbrakes deployed, vertical flight leaves much to desire.






here is Tejas at AI 2013, poor agility again particularly at slow pass, there is not ITR, and STR (too long) despite having a FBW as it had to turn left instead of going up to gain speed, wehreas jf-17 went up after slow pass+airbrakes deployed !



LCA Tejas flight display in Aero India 2013 - YouTube

 

[Dazzler]

Even in this video it takes 28 seconds for the full horizontal loop (from 0:48 seconds to 1:16 seconds or from 0:52 seconds to 1:20 seconds ) giving it as STR of below 13 deg.essentially mig-21 class

you forgot the first public flight?

 

[Apollyon]

Yes Yes
Pakis are the best onlee. Pakis are the best Scientists in the hole world. Pakis are the best Engineers in the hole world. Pakis have the best AirForce in the hole world (even tho they mostly fly second hand or donated Aircraft and no money to pay for the fuel, but ---- logic they're the best). Pakis the best onlee.

and at last JF-17 is the best onlee even tho it can only drop dumb bombs and fire onlee degraded PL-9 SRAAM ..and it is better than Tejas

PS: Pakis don't even have capability to design an IC Engine on their own ..but ---- logic

 

[Dazzler]

Yes Yes
Pakis are the best onlee. Pakis are the best Scientists in the hole world. Pakis are the best Engineers in the hole world. Pakis have the best AirForce in the hole world (even tho they mostly fly second hand or donated Aircraft and no money to pay for the fuel, but ---- logic they're the best). Pakis the best onlee.

and at last JF-17 is the best onlee even tho it can only drop dumb bombs and fire onlee degraded PL-9 SRAAM ..and it is better than Tejas

PS: Pakis don't even have capability to design an IC Engine on their own ..but ---- logic

not interested in discussing low level/ quality posts having no substance.

Thanks

 

[ersakthivel]

an insecure post to say the least since tejas was not even mentioned in my post, you seem to have an obsession with it i think

On a serious note, your comparision with M-21 is ridiculous at best, Agility = transition from one maneuver to another, the less time a plane takes in that transition, the more agile it is considered. Mig-21 is has poor agility, especially at low speeds, kodus to delta wing design and a lack of FBW.

This videos below says it all, a Romanian Lancer trying to prove its agility, note there is no bare slow pass let alone one with airbrakes deployed, vertical flight leaves much to desire.






here is Tejas at AI 2013, poor agility again particularly at slow pass, there is not ITR, and STR (too long) despite having a FBW as it had to turn left instead of going up to gain speed, wehreas jf-17 went up after slow pass+airbrakes deployed !



LCA Tejas flight display in Aero India 2013 - YouTube

mate as far as I know agility is measured by wing loading and , TWr and STR,
tejas is streets ahead of JF-17.

there is a video posted by rahulrds1 in tejas tread taken at aeroindia 2013 in ADA tejas IV thread ,

with tejas doing a vertical loop in 20 seconds, even with in a restricted flight envelope of 6gs and around 20 deg AOA

And in the Aerindia 2013 the test pilot has told the spectators since it's flight envelope is not fully opened it was not pushed to the limits.

Still it completes the vertical loop in 4 seconds less time taken for JF-17 in Dubai airshow.,

Generally low wing loading deltas like Mirage and RAFALE are good at ITR over high wing loading fighters.

It is a common fact.

 

[ersakthivel]

you forgot the first public flight?

fighters put up their best display in air show to win orders. that is where the performance counts.

 

[Dazzler]

mate as far as I know agility is measured by wing loading and , TWr and STR,
tejas is streets ahead of JF-17.

there is a video posted by rahulrds1 in tejas tread taken at aeroindia 2013 in ADA tejas IV thread ,

with tejas doing a vertical loop in 20 seconds, even with in a restricted flight envelope of 6gs and around 20 deg AOA

And in the Aerindia 2013 the test pilot has told the spectators since it's flight envelope is not fully opened it was not pushed to the limits.

Still it completes the vertical loop in 4 seconds less time taken for JF-17 in Dubai airshow.,

Generally low wing loading deltas like Mirage and RAFALE are good at ITR over high wing loading fighters.

It is a common fact.

mate, one suggestion to you, there is way more to an air display than what you have mentioned, agility has several aspects apart of wing loading and ITR/ STR, aerodynamics+ FLCS+engine efficiency (by-pass ratio i.e. the engine response to pilot command) play a big part in it. There is no national pride in it.

You brought Tejas into discussion, an aircraft which is still being tested and far from inducted into IAF. No wonder its flight envelope is not yet opened.

 

[Apollyon]

Well i don't wanna be Quoted by low quality Pakis who are also supposedly the 'Best Material Scientists' around and designed/produced the bestest Explosive Reactive Armor. Thanks

PS: Here look at this, no mention of Pakis in this 'global research report materials science and technology' by Thomson Reuters. Pakis are not even among the Top 30 (well not one mention in this report).
Is this a conspiracy against the bestest Material Scientists aka The Pakis ?

researchanalytics.thomsonreuters.com/m/pdfs/grr-materialscience.pdf"Ž

 

[Dazzler]

Well i don't wanna be Quoted by low quality Pakis who are also supposedly the 'Best Material Scientists' around and designed/produced the bestest Explosive Reactive Armor. Thanks

PS: Here look at this, no mention of Pakis in this 'global research report materials science and technology' by Thomson Reuters. Pakis are not even among the Top 30 (well not one mention in this report).
Is this a conspiracy against the bestest Material Scientists aka The Pakis ?

researchanalytics.thomsonreuters.com/m/pdfs/grr-materialscience.pdf"Ž

way off-topic

 

[Decklander]

JF-17 is the finest ever fighter built todate and the world must know that is 100% Pakistani product. I give up.

 

[bennedose]

Some people get so upset watching this that they say that the frame rates have been fixed. They have not.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7V4waXZLxSE

 

[fulcrum]

you forgot the first public flight?

If you look properly, the JF-17 doesn't even complete the loop. The start point and the end point are not the same.

Here is the complete loop-

JF-17 vs F-16 vs MiG-29 Turn Rate Comparison Video | Break.com

 

[Dazzler]

If you look properly, the JF-17 doesn't even complete the loop. The start point and the end point are not the same.

Here is the complete loop-

JF-17 vs F-16 vs MiG-29 Turn Rate Comparison Video | Break.com

To execute a proper loop, a modern FBW equipped fighter needs atleast 2200-2500 feet AGL, you guys are stuck on loop, look at the height it is maneuvering, barely 1000-1500 feet, good luck in completing a loop at such heights, in search of loop, you forgot its other meneuvers such as split S, cuban 8, high speed reversal, wingover, high Yo-yo, lag roll etx, so carry on with loop fun

 

[bennedose]

To execute a proper loop, a modern FBW equipped fighter needs atleast 2200-2500 feet AGL, you guys are stuck on loop, look at the height it is maneuvering, barely 1000-1500 feet, good luck in completing a loop at such heights, in search of loop, you forgot its other meneuvers such as split S, cuban 8, high speed reversal, wingover, high Yo-yo, lag roll etx, so carry on with loop fun

One needs more than an empty condom to do the job so waving a condom about is no proof. Let us see some videos of Bundaar doing all that so we can all go ooooh and aaaah

Have you seen this video? The only F-22 ever shot down. By a Pakistani JF 17
Hillarious fan video: F-22 Raptor shot by Jf-17 Thunder - YouTube

 

[Dazzler]

One needs more than an empty condom to do the job so waving a condom about is no proof. Let us see some videos of Bundaar doing all that so we can all go ooooh and aaaah

Have you seen this video? The only F-22 ever shot down. By a Pakistani JF 17
Hillarious fan video: F-22 Raptor shot by Jf-17 Thunder - YouTube

is this the best you could come up with to counter an argument? Sad

 

[Defcon 1]

Trolls seem to be getting weird satisfaction in disparaging the product of others.

 

[Agnostic_Indian]

nice discussion even though half of it is going above my head..

 

[Dazzler]

Commander Royal Jordanian Air Force visits PAC, Kamra