JF-17 Thunder / FC-1 Xiaolong

[Defcon 1]

Re: JF-17 obsolete and cheap aircraft, ideal for Pakistan

JF 17 has NOT yet been integrated with BVRAAM
Right now it can only drop bombs
and that too on the Taliban who dont have SAM s or AAA

One member on other forum claimed that it has been integrated with SD10B which is a BVR missile. although integration was done post induction.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Re: JF-17 obsolete and cheap aircraft, ideal for Pakistan

I have read that buddy. But I am still waiting for the final configuration of LCA mk1. hope it delivers. I am really excited since I heard about LCA Mk 3. Thats really gonna be something.

Some people say it will be a off shoot of AMCA program. The RCS is suppose to be an extremely low
number. I am also expecting a stealth UAV will come from this program?

 

[balai_c]

Re: JF-17 obsolete and cheap aircraft, ideal for Pakistan

Can any member post a detailed list of test flights of JF 17, like we have seen in case of our Tejas? Where are the pictures of the test aircrafts? How many test flights did they undergo? Can anyone show any recorded video of weapons test, or any official press release, like we see in case of LCA? How can we verify anything about JF-17? Everything comes down to claims by some random pakistani jingo. Their test programme is completely opeque.

 

[Defcon 1]

Re: JF-17 obsolete and cheap aircraft, ideal for Pakistan

Some people say it will be a off shoot of AMCA program. The RCS is suppose to be an extremely low
number. I am also expecting a stealth UAV will come from this program?

How can be it a stealth plane when it was not designed stealth by scratch. I am also apprehensive about the weapons pod. A plane carry external weapons should have greater RCS.

Can any member post a detailed list of test flights of JF 17, like we have seen in case of our Tejas? Where are the pictures of the test aircrafts? How many test flights did they undergo? Can anyone show any recorded video of weapons test, or any official press release, like we see in case of LCA? How can we verify anything about JF-17? Everything comes down to claims by some random pakistani jingo. Their test programme is completely opeque.

Thats because it is a chinese plane. Chinese keep everything hidden.

 

[pankaj nema]

Re: JF-17 obsolete and cheap aircraft, ideal for Pakistan

One member on other forum claimed that it has been integrated with SD10B which is a BVR missile. although integration was done post induction.

Don t go by their claims or what their " sources " say

On their forum the Pakis are making claims for " stealth " JF17 and super cruise and AESA

The Pakis are habitually delusional All these claims are just feel good placebos

When any REAL improvement happens on the JF 17 both Pakis and Chinese will be
shouting from their roof tops along with pictures and videos

 

[Defcon 1]

Re: JF-17 obsolete and cheap aircraft, ideal for Pakistan

I just do nt understand that WHY will China waste its LIMITED Human resources
for JF 17 upgradation ie block 2 when they dont want it for themselves and it is for the Pakis only

Because it is giving them money, bringing down the unit of their components such as radars. Enabling them to develop new components whose development cost will be met by pakistan, giving them a fighter which can be exported without spending a penny on development, and it is also in line with strategy to control india and also it is giving them nice deals from pakistanis

 

[Defcon 1]

Re: JF-17 obsolete and cheap aircraft, ideal for Pakistan

Don t go by their claims or what their " sources " say

On their forum the Pakis are making claims for " stealth " JF17 and super cruise and AESA

They are habitually delusional All these claims are just feel good placebos

When any REAL improvement happens on the JF 17 both Pakis and Chinese will be
shouting from their roof tops along with pictures and videos

I understand what are u saying. But there BS claims are about future improvements. In this case, the member claimed that the BVR missile has already been integrated. I suggest that we should take the worst case.

 

[pankaj nema]

Re: JF-17 obsolete and cheap aircraft, ideal for Pakistan

Because it is giving them money, bringing down the unit of their components such as radars. Enabling them to develop new components whose development cost will be met by pakistan, giving them a fighter which can be exported without spending a penny on development, and it is also in line with strategy to control india and also it is giving them nice deals from pakistanis

Pakis are not paying anything for the development work of JF 17

In fact they dont even pay the full price and are getting it at friendship price

Secondly sales to Pakis does not count in the global market at all

JF 17 will not be known as a top class fighter plane EVEN if Pakis buy 300 JF 17

And to contain India they can sell more missiles ; artilerry and tanks to the Pakis and also
more of naval equipment because Pak Navy is shit

 

[sayareakd]

Re: JF-17 obsolete and cheap aircraft, ideal for Pakistan

quite a strange fighter, it didnt had a radar when it was inducted, it was first inducted only then weapons trials were done, they have not done final avionics on it, on and off keep saying western avionics.
Video said that it was developed in world record time. So you can understand what that fighter would be.

 

[Defcon 1]

Re: JF-17 obsolete and cheap aircraft, ideal for Pakistan

Pakis are not paying anything for the development work of JF 17

In fact they dont even pay the full price and are getting it at friendship price

Secondly sales to Pakis does not count in the global market at all

JF 17 will not be known as a top class fighter plane EVEN if Pakis buy 300 JF 17

And to contain India they can sell more missiles ; artilerry and tanks to the Pakis and also
more of naval equipment because Pak Navy is shit

We don't know that if pakistan has payed for development or not.

But since it was advertised as a JV we should assume that they payed.

China has claimed that they will be able to get export orders for JF17 within 5 years, which may or may not be true.

I never said JF17 is a top class fighter.

And also, pakistan doesn't spend money on navy. Most of their money goes to airforce and the army. Missiles are also useless as pakis are more concerned about cold-start at this time.

 

[p2prada]

Re: JF-17 obsolete and cheap aircraft, ideal for Pakistan

I wont put much faith in wiki links when it comes to radar performances and RCS.....

The KLJ specs are from official sources within China. If it has improved over time, then you guys are supposed to post such information.

Besides neither of them are fully developed yet. How you compare two different platforms in different development stages anyway. Apple and orange.

Are you talking about LCA and JF-17/J-10 or LCA's MMR and KLJ-10?

LCA's MMR is more or less ready. It is the LCA which is delaying tests. KLJ-10 is already operational.

no, but the member claiming it was a senior mod. very knowledgeable and seems a good person from his post. Seems connected too. Don't think he is lying.

Is there anything more to go for? Like did he mention against what target? If we assume it was against a 3m[SUP]2[/SUP] target, then it will be at the level of the Zhuk ME. There was a lot of talk that the KLJ was derived from Zhuk.

GRIPEN C/D and LCA MK1 have almost exact numbers. Only difference is Gripen can supercruise.
Even engines are both GE. Possibly with a future engine from the French LCA numbers will be
better than GRIPEN? LCA MK2 beats Gripen in thrust.

Gripen NG would be most appropriate to compare with the Mk2. LCA's low speed performance will not be good against Gripen, even subsonic performance. Gripen is an all rounder. LCA will be the high flying, fast shooting, Quick Draw McGraw fighter. None of that fancy dog fight stuff.

It will come in real fast, shoot missiles left, right and center and get away as fast. Aircraft like Mig-29 and MKI will come in to finish what's left of the enemy.

that's for a Fighter Sized 5m[SUP]2[/SUP] target

Thanks for clearing it up.

really, 150km for 1m2 target

The last we know, LCA was tracking HJT Kirans from 100Km away.

Don t go by their claims or what their " sources " say

On their forum the Pakis are making claims for " stealth " JF17 and super cruise and AESA

AESA, fine. It makes more sense for JF-17 to carry AESA as compared to LCA. A mechanical radar is actually better for LCA because much larger wide angle searches can be made without distortion like in AESA.

But supercruise? When do they want this aircraft? 2020? Is their ambition so low that they still want JF-17s after we operationalize Rafale and PAKFA? They need to stick to what's realistic. Supercruise will defeat the purpose of a low cost fighter. Logic dictates it is just fanboy dreams.

 

[sayareakd]

Re: JF-17 obsolete and cheap aircraft, ideal for Pakistan

Can any member post a detailed list of test flights of JF 17, like we have seen in case of our Tejas? Where are the pictures of the test aircrafts? How many test flights did they undergo? Can anyone show any recorded video of weapons test, or any official press release, like we see in case of LCA? How can we verify anything about JF-17? Everything comes down to claims by some random pakistani jingo. Their test programme is completely opeque.

just 500 test flight and they inducted the fighter into PAF.

 

[pankaj nema]

Re: JF-17 obsolete and cheap aircraft, ideal for Pakistan

I understand what are u saying. But there BS claims are about future improvements. In this case, the member claimed that the BVR missile has already been integrated. I suggest that we should take the worst case.

Believe me mate it has NOT happened JF 17 can only drop bombs

EIther SD 10 is not good or there is some problem with KLJ 7 and the Pakis want KLJ 10
or may be some software issues with the Flight control system

Transparency is one thing that the Chinese just dont believe in
The Chinese and the Pakis thrive on bluff and bluster

 

[Defcon 1]

Re: JF-17 obsolete and cheap aircraft, ideal for Pakistan

Is there anything more to go for? Like did he mention against what target? If we assume it was against a 3m[SUP]2[/SUP] target, then it will be at the level of the Zhuk ME. There was a lot of talk that the KLJ was derived from Zhuk.

Well from his post it seemed that the target size will be same as that for JF17 blk 1.

 

[pankaj nema]

Re: JF-17 obsolete and cheap aircraft, ideal for Pakistan

China has so many projects J 10 A/B ; J 11; J 20; J 15 Naval plane

China has infinite money BUT finite human resources

Why would they time and human resources money on improving the Junk Fighter JF 17
that too for the Free loaders Pakis

 

[Defcon 1]

Re: JF-17 obsolete and cheap aircraft, ideal for Pakistan

China has so many projects J 10 A/B ; J 11; J 20; J 15 Naval plane

China has infinite money BUT finite human resources

Why would they time and human resources money on improving the Junk Fighter JF 17
that too for the Free loaders Pakis

This is there entry point for export. Moreover none of the planes you mentioned above have matured. JF17 is the only one yet.

 

[p2prada]

Re: JF-17 obsolete and cheap aircraft, ideal for Pakistan

Well from his post it seemed that the target size will be same as that for JF17 blk 1.

What is it for JF-17B1, 3m[SUP]2[/SUP] or 5m[SUP]2[/SUP]? Dk says 5m[SUP]2[/SUP].

Anyway for all who are interested, the SD-10A has been export ready for quite some time and PAF already seems to have placed orders for hundreds of them.

SD-10B is the one that is being readied for export.

 

[pankaj nema]

Re: JF-17 obsolete and cheap aircraft, ideal for Pakistan

This is there entry point for export. Moreover none of the planes you mentioned above have matured. JF17 is the only one yet.

No body is buying JF 17 There have been some vague expressions of interest but nothing has happened

Secondly after the Chinese began showing off their JF 17
Russians have come down hard on them and tightened ALL the contracts including sales of more RD 93 engines
so that the JF 17 does NOT undercut the Mig 29

The immediate rival of JF 17 is the Mig 29

Mig 29 SMT is available for 40 - 45 million and it is any day better than JF 17

No body will buy that JUNK other than the Pakis of course

 

[Apollyon]

Re: JF-17 obsolete and cheap aircraft, ideal for Pakistan

KLJ-7 is a multi–function X-band Pulse-Doppler fire control radar. It was developed by Nanjing Research Institute of Electronic Technology (NRIET), also known as the China Electronics Technology Company's (CETC's) No. 14 Research Institute.

Specifications:

Frequency: X band
Operation range (RCS of 5 m2) :
Up-looking detection range >105KM
Down-looking detection range >85km
Management of up to 40 targets
Numbers of simultaneously tracked targets: 10
Simultaneously fire on 2 BVR targets
Weight: <120 kg
Meantime between failure: 220 hours
Meantime to recovery: 0.5 hours

JF-17 Avionics | JF-17 Thunder

 

[sayareakd]

Re: JF-17 obsolete and cheap aircraft, ideal for Pakistan

KLJ-7 is a multi–function X-band Pulse-Doppler fire control radar. It was developed by Nanjing Research Institute of Electronic Technology (NRIET), also known as the China Electronics Technology Company's (CETC's) No. 14 Research Institute.

Specifications:

Frequency: X band
Operation range (RCS of 5 m2) :
Up-looking detection range >105KM
Down-looking detection range >85km
Management of up to 40 targets
Numbers of simultaneously tracked targets: 10
Simultaneously fire on 2 BVR targets
Weight: <120 kg
Meantime between failure: 220 hours
Meantime to recovery: 0.5 hours

JF-17 Avionics | JF-17 Thunder

Specifications

Data from: Jane's Defence [1]
Frequency: X-band
Range:
Look-up: >75 km (for RCS of 3 m2)[1]
Look-down: >35 km (for RCS of 3 m2)[1]
Total targets tracked: 10 in TWS (Track-While-Scan) mode
Reliability:
MTBF (Mean Time Between Failure): 220 hours
MTTR (Mean Time To Recovery): 0.5 hours
Weight: ≤120 kg
Volume: 0.065 m3

KLJ-7 Radar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Jane is respectable publication.........