JF-17 Thunder / FC-1 Xiaolong

The Messiah

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Its not about Avionics. Its about Inflated Egos of Pakistanis. Their ego is better and bigger than even Americans . SO bigger Ego = Better avionics and better plane.
They have everything "better" and there 1 soldier can take out 10 of ours.

Yet when war breaks they run like little girl to uncle sam and un for ceasefire and when India agrees they claim victory.
 

DaRk WaVe

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Wow! then still these people compare this aircraft with F16s & think it as an answer to India's Sukhoi 30MKIs.
I am yet to see a Pakistani saying that it can take down MKI

it is comparable to F-16A Block 15
 

Rahul92

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sukhoi mki can detect the jf 17 & destroy it before jf 17 can hardly notice mki in its radar:emot180:
 

sob

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I think with JF 17 PAF will be relying on numbers rather than quantity.
With half decent BVR Missiles and with 200 odd fighters ( whenever they come on line) it will be an ideal defensive platform for the Pakistanis.

The real test will come as the planes will log on increased flying hours, and how the airframes and the engines handle the fatigue stress.
 
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Daredevil

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I think with JF 17 PAF will be relying on numbers rather than quantity.
With half decent BVR Missiles and with 200 odd fighters ( whenever they come on line) it will be an ideal defensive platform for the Pakistanis.

The real test will come as the planes will log on increased flying hours, and how the airframes and the engines handle the fatigue stress.
In these days of electronics dominated air warfare, I think quantity will be a negligible factor. I think IAF is ahead of PAF in possessing superior electronic warfare capability be it Phalcon AWACS or Bars radar of Su-30MKI or AESA of upcoming MRCA fighter which it is going to face. So far, PAF has been depending heavily on China for their radars and they are nothing but junk. Unless, JF-17 gets fitted with advanced radars and EW suite with better weapons system, they are going to be non-threat as far as IAF is considered.
 

Rahul92

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chinese are very good xerox makers when u have look at mig 21 & jf 17 any one can see the similarites actually jf 17 or so called project super 7 is a mig 33 series which was sold to china & pakistan on rejection of soviet air force so stop comparing about sukhoi mki with this jf. If we compare it to hal tejas & jf 17 these are enough
HAL TEJAS
Specifications
Wing Span 8.20 m
Length 13.20 m
Empty Weight 5500 kg
Engine Prototype - GE F404-F2J3 turbofan rated at 18,097 lbst
Production - Kaveri GTX-35VS turbofan rated at 20,200 lbst
Fuel Capacity Internal fuel capacity - 3000 liters
Centerline and the two-inner hardpoints under each wing can carry five 800 liters fuel tanks
also has an in-flight refuelling probe
Maximum Range ?
Maximum Speed Mach 1.7
Service Ceiling 50,000 feet.
G Limits +9/-3.5
Armament internally mounted GSh-23mm twin barrel gun with 220 rounds of ammunition Seven external hardpoints, can carry air-to-air missiles, air-to-surface missiles, anti-ship missiles, rocket launchers and ECM pods
Maximum External Stores Load 4000kg (8818 lbs.)
Self Defence RWR system, jammer and chaff& flare dispensers.

http://iaf.webpagesindia.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/800px-Light_Combat_Aircraft.jpg
JF 17
Specifications
Contractors Chengdu Aircraft Industry Group (CAIG)
Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC)
Projected [1999] Actual [2004]
LENGTH 13.95 meters 14.9679 m
HEIGHT 5.02 meters 4.77485 m
WING SPAN 9.5 meters 9.4646 m
MAX T-O WEIGHT 12,500 kilograms 12,474 kg
Empty weight 6,411 kg
Normal takeoff weight 9,072 kg
Maximum landing weight 7,802 kg
Fuel weight 2,268 kg
Weapons load 3,629 kg
Thrust/weight ratio >=0.9
MAX LEVEL SPEED 1031 knots Mach 1.6
MAX RANGE / Ferry range 864 nautical miles 2,037 km
SERVICE CEILING 16,000 meters 15,240 m
T-O RUN 500 meters 609 m
LANDING RUN 700 meters 823 m
Armament

* 23 mm GSh-23-2 twin-barrel cannon
* 6 - PL-7 AAM
* 6 - PL-10 AAMs
* ASMs, bombs

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/china/images/fc-1_07.jpg

http://battle-gear.org/mig21.jpg

..=i+
 

civfanatic

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I am yet to see a Pakistani saying that it can take down MKI

it is comparable to F-16A Block 15
Aren't most PAF F-16s the Block 15 variant?

Does that mean that they are of the same quality as the Junk Fighter-17??

If so the IAF will have an even easier job than expected.
 

JHA

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it seems we are also suffering from inflated ego syndrome. They are procuring JF-17 because it fits their plan which now-a-days has changed ( for good ) to defend their territory against intruding IAF. And be sure that in case of all out war the maximum air fights will be in WVR , You can even see a lot of dogfights. So, writing them off just because they are procuring less capable aircraft is also a case of inflated ego. Instead IAF should focus on procuring LCA in hundreds as next work horse.You cant use the Flankers or, RAFALEs/EFs/SHs for every mission.
 

JHA

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Aren't most PAF F-16s the Block 15 variant?

Does that mean that they are of the same quality as the Junk Fighter-17??

If so the IAF will have an even easier job than expected.
yes their most of the F-16 are block-15, but all of those old F-16 will be getting MLU and will be more or, less capable to Block-40.
And again dont call JF-17 a junk fighter ..Chinese are known for producing low cost ,good performance aircraft...Their version of Mig-21 is considered one of the best built version.
 

civfanatic

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yes their most of the F-16 are block-15, but all of those old F-16 will be getting MLU and will be more or, less capable to Block-40.
And again dont call JF-17 a junk fighter ..Chinese are known for producing low cost ,good performance aircraft...Their version of Mig-21 is considered one of the best built version.
Chinese aircraft have yet to be used in combat. so how can you say they have good performance?? No one knows the real capabilities of Chinese aircraft so far.

This is off topic, but I believe an F-7 (Chinese MiG-21 copy) with Western avionics and BVR capability would be a far more suitable aircraft for Pakistan than the JF-17. I say this because the JF-17 has a max speed of only 1.6 mach, which severely restricts its ability to carry out point-air defence. In comparison the F-7/MiG-21 can easily reach speeds of Mach 2+. But as the OP points out, Pakistanis have a huge ego and want an aircraft with the "Made in Pakistan" label, even if there are better choices available.
 

Rebelkid

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lets not use the term Junk fighter, I prefer we discuss this in more....emm...civility. How about a few people opt for defending jf-17 just for the sake of discussion...
 

civfanatic

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How about a few people opt for defending jf-17 just for the sake of discussion...
What is there to defend?

Even if JF-17 is an inferior fighter (which it is), I would have supported the PAF's decision to procure it if it was the best option available to them.

But the fact that there are/were better options available makes me wonder why they even got the JF-17 in the first place.
 

JHA

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Chinese aircraft have yet to be used in combat. so how can you say they have good performance?? No one knows the real capabilities of Chinese aircraft so far.
.
In that case , when was Su-30 used in a combat...Dont ridicule a nation's capability ( especially china's)..No one has an idea what hey are capable of. Considering the different models they are producing on everyday basis , i will not count them out.
BTW what i said about F-7 was not my words..Some indian pilot who was seasoned on Mig-21 told this..You can search on BR..
 

death.by.chocolate

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I say this because the JF-17 has a max speed of only 1.6 mach, which severely restricts its ability to carry out point-air defence. In comparison the F-7/MiG-21 can easily reach speeds of Mach 2+.
By the same argument the JSF(F-35) is useless or the SR-71 is the best point defense aircraft since it can cruise at three times the speed of sound? Why is high speed of over Mach 2 required for 'point defense'?
 

JHA

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People are calling Jf-17 junk because it uses all metal frame, chinese avionics, chinese radars....etc.
Now tell me what experience We have in building avionics..?? ??Do we know anything about our MMR radar which Mk-I will have..?? What about the low thrust engine being used in Mk-I ( GE-404..?)..
 

civfanatic

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In that case , when was Su-30 used in a combat...
Actually the Su-27 (which is what Su-30 is based on) saw combat in Ethiopia-Eritrea war, and shot down several MiG-29s with no losses.

BTW what i said about F-7 was not my words..Some indian pilot who was seasoned on Mig-21 told this..You can search on BR..
I never underestimated F-7, I'm sure that they are superior to early model MiG-21s. But not our Bisons.
 

civfanatic

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By the same argument the JSF(F-35) is useless or the SR-71 is the best point defense aircraft since it can cruise at three times the speed of sound? Why is high speed of over Mach 2 required for 'point defense'?
Because point-defence aircraft are designed to quickly take off, quickly climb to the altitude of the target, destroy the target, and then quickly land. Since point-defence aircraft generally have short ranges, they can't stay in the air on CAP for long and usually stay on the ground. For this reason they need to have high speeds, short take-off times, and high rates of climb. The MiG-21 is a classic example.

Of couse the whole concept of "point-defence interception" is an outdated early-Cold War concept, and I don't think any Western air force still uses point-defence interceptors. Hence why the JF-17 is obsolete.
 

Yusuf

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I would fear the unknown than the known. Anything in the air with missiles on it is going to be dangerous and has to be taken into account. JHA completely agree with you and i have said as much earlier. The JF-17 may be inferior (still to be proven) but it still is going to fly, may be has inferior avionics but still has something and even if it manages to shoot down one Indian fighter be it MRCA or MKI, they will feel vindicated. And we would not like to lose even one of ours to them so we better consider them to be good enough to shoot down our birds and prepare accordingly.
 

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