JF-17 Thunder / FC-1 Xiaolong

[Tshering22]

seems logical but who will pay for these engine swaps. Also how reliable are WS13 when compared to RD93. For most of pakistani ws13 being smokeless is enough.

Pakistanis are not going to be paying for it since their current program is itself running on Chinese soft loans. But countries like Nigeria, Angola, Azerbaijan have decent oil wealth and they will happily pay. Nigeria has already started inducting FC-1s in their Air Force and have already started training with PAF pilots on this.

China has had a fairly good experience with aircraft engines by now. Their work with the engines started way back in the 80s when the Rolls Royce refused to provide them with the ToT after the Tiananmen Square Massacre. While China sucked it up and allowed aircraft manufacturers to set up shop in China for aircraft assemblies, they worked double time on improving aircraft engine program.

Much of their combat aircraft today are using the WonShang (WS) series of engines. WS-10, WS-11, WS-12, and WS-13 for fighter jets, while WS-20 series is being developed for use in their Y-20 heavy airlift aircraft.

 

[Okabe Rintarou]

How was this not reported here?

Structural Issues Cause Pakistan To Ground 40% Of Its JF-17 Fleet

Structural Issues Cause Pakistan To Ground 40% Of Its JF-17 Fleet

According to the sources, Pakistan Air Force has grounded 40% of its total fleet of JF-17 "Thunder" fighter aircraft due to a variety of problems in the airframes.

frontiervedette.com

• The fuselage and wings are most affected by cracks.
• Front section and the nose cone (that carries radar) are said to be unsatisfactory for holding the heavyweight radar like its KLJ-7
• canopy’s electrical system is also facing malfunctions. This is a potential danger as it makes ejection by the pilot either difficult or almost impossible
• Problems are reported in both single-seater JF-17A as well as recently introduced twin-seater JF-17B.

What do you all make of this

LOL. Someone welcome the Pakistanis to the 21st century. They didn't have this capability (HOBS/HMDS) till now but its standard in Indian Air Force jets, including even the ones about to retire, like the MiG-21 Bison. That said, this new AAM does seem capable, with LOAL as well.

 

[Neeraj Mathur]

Pakistanis are not going to be paying for it since their current program is itself running on Chinese soft loans. But countries like Nigeria, Angola, Azerbaijan have decent oil wealth and they will happily pay. Nigeria has already started inducting FC-1s in their Air Force and have already started training with PAF pilots on this.

China has had a fairly good experience with aircraft engines by now. Their work with the engines started way back in the 80s when the Rolls Royce refused to provide them with the ToT after the Tiananmen Square Massacre. While China sucked it up and allowed aircraft manufacturers to set up shop in China for aircraft assemblies, they worked double time on improving aircraft engine program.

Much of their combat aircraft today are using the WonShang (WS) series of engines. WS-10, WS-11, WS-12, and WS-13 for fighter jets, while WS-20 series is being developed for use in their Y-20 heavy airlift aircraft.

Pakistanis are not going to be paying for it since their current program is itself running on Chinese soft loans. But countries like Nigeria, Angola, Azerbaijan have decent oil wealth and they will happily pay. Nigeria has already started inducting FC-1s in their Air Force and have already started training with PAF pilots on this.

USP of JF17 is that its cheap. None of the country you mentioned will pay a dollar more than what they paid for jf with RD93. Also none are buying the jet in grt numbers.

Would you like to have your Air force on soft loan. Even if ur Air force is on soft loan would you add to that soft loan.

 

[Tshering22]

Pakistanis are not going to be paying for it since their current program is itself running on Chinese soft loans. But countries like Nigeria, Angola, Azerbaijan have decent oil wealth and they will happily pay. Nigeria has already started inducting FC-1s in their Air Force and have already started training with PAF pilots on this.

USP of JF17 is that its cheap. None of the country you mentioned will pay a dollar more than what they paid for jf with RD93. Also none are buying the jet in grt numbers.

Would you like to have your Air force on soft loan. Even if ur Air force is on soft loan would you add to that soft loan.

What makes you think WS-13 will be costlier than RD-93? Even if it is, Chinese will try to promote it for greater customer markets. Their stock for RD-93s is exclusively for current inventories in PAF.

At this point, Pakistanis don't care what or how they get the jet as long as they can use them against us. Simple. China thinks it can control Pakistan with money, but soon they will realize that Afghanistan is much easier and less messier than Pakistanis.

 

[Love Charger]

View attachment 120009
View attachment 120010
Damn

Why aghore King why angry

 

[Neeraj Mathur]

What makes you think WS-13 will be costlier than RD-93? Even if it is, Chinese will try to promote it for greater customer markets. Their stock for RD-93s is exclusively for current inventories in PAF.

At this point, Pakistanis don't care what or how they get the jet as long as they can use them against us. Simple. China thinks it can control Pakistan with money, but soon they will realize that Afghanistan is much easier and less messier than Pakistanis.

What makes you think WS-13 will be costlier than RD-93? Even if it is, Chinese will try to promote it for greater customer markets. Their stock for RD-93s is exclusively for current inventories in PAF.

well you said countries will happily pay more. Still just like RD93, Ws13 is only for jf17. The number of jets orders are not in large quantity.

At this point, Pakistanis don't care what or how they get the jet as long as they can use them against us. Simple. China thinks it can control Pakistan with money, but soon they will realize that Afghanistan is much easier and less messier than Pakistanis.

Still PAF is not a rag tag AF. they have operated good jets and know that a jet with unreliable engine will not give them any edge.I still think PAF will stick with RD93.

 

[Super Flanker]

Chinese-Origin, Pakistani Front-Line JF-17 Jets Plagued With Flaws; Most Of Fighters Grounded - India

If claims from the Indian media are to be believed, then about 40 percent of Chinese-origin JF-17 fighters in two Pakistan Air force bases are reportedly grounded for a variety of reasons. Russian Su-35 Jets Are Far Deadlier Than US’ F-16s, F-35s As Indonesia Plans To Opt For Sukhoi Jets –...

eurasiantimes.com

Honestly speaking, I feel like this news about 40 Percent of JF 17 being grounded is fake. I as an Indian say this. I highly Doubt that JF 17 are 40 Percent Grounded always to be honest. It is most probably a fake news or rumour to be honest.

The Truth Behind Pakistan's JF-17 Fleet And Its Failure

The Chinese have a peculiar habit, they may build the best of the product for them but when it comes to export, they can give any kind of customisation to their buyer even at the cost of compromising security and performance.

www.india.com

Like that,the News of Tejas being 60 Percent Grounded is fake as well. I know that for a fact. I feel like both the reports of Tejas being 60 Percent Grounded and JF 17 being 40 Percent Grounded are counter reports from Each side's Media to be honest. Here is a fact check

 

[thefewthefearless]

Pakistanis expecting JF 17 block 3 to be like.
View attachment 120757
Stealthy....killer of Rafale.....Daddy of Indian airforce.....blah blah blah.
Reality:
View attachment 120758

rafale and jf17 are from entirety different class.
jf 17 is a 10th gen air superiority aircraft having nuclear air to air missiles. rafale is a puppy infront of him inshallah. it was cause allah's nuclear havoc on virgin sanghi snowflakes.
it has 69d tvc with hyper manoeuvrability ability to go to allah and gift sanghi heads.
it can kill ufo and can fly at 2xlight speed.

 

[Tang]

Honestly speaking, I feel like this news about 40 Percent of JF 17 being grounded is fake. I as an Indian say this. I highly Doubt that JF 17 are 40 Percent Grounded always to be honest. It is most probably a fake news or rumour to be honest.

The Truth Behind Pakistan's JF-17 Fleet And Its Failure

The Chinese have a peculiar habit, they may build the best of the product for them but when it comes to export, they can give any kind of customisation to their buyer even at the cost of compromising security and performance.

www.india.com

Like that,the News of Tejas being 60 Percent Grounded is fake as well. I know that for a fact. I feel like both the reports of Tejas being 60 Percent Grounded and JF 17 being 40 Percent Grounded are counter reports from Each side's Media to be honest. Here is a fact check

Bullshit, 60% of Tejas was true for only pak propagandists, we can clearly see that Tejas was not grounded,

Meanwhile JF17 is an old design, repair prone engine and famous Chinese designed, this 40% jf17 grounded is true, as pakis are yet to show any proof otherwise.

 

[Tang]

What do you all make of this

R73 Derby and Python are all far better than this

 

[Super Flanker]

Bullshit, 60% of Tejas was true for only pak propagandists, we can clearly see that Tejas was not grounded,

Meanwhile JF17 is an old design, repair prone engine and famous Chinese designed, this 40% jf17 grounded is true, as pakis are yet to show any proof otherwise.

Yes Tejas was not Grounded, we did Elephant walk of Tejas and burst that Propoganda by Pakis that our Tejas are grounded.

And about Jf 17 being grounded Can't say much at this point, maybe it is true that 40 Percent of JF 17 are Grounded most of the time. As of now , I will stick to my opinion that both are counter reports against each other and nothing else to be honest from my personal opinion.

Most probably it is true that jf 17 are 40 Percent Grounded.

 

[Super Flanker]

R73 Derby and Python are all far better than this

Yes you are right, it is just another toy by Chinese given to their dog that is Pakistan.

 

[Tang]

This is strange...

Dubai Airshow: fuimos al stand de Pakistan Aeronautical Complex y preguntamos por el JF-17

Una de las muchas compañías presentes en el Dubai Air Show es Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (o PAC), la cual posee un stand en donde desplegaron, entre varios

www.aviacionline.com

Upon the question whether the JF-17 Block III were going to be powered by the powerful RD-93MA (modernized version of the RD-93 thats already on use with the JF-17) or the Chinese WS-13, the Answer was....none.
PAC confirmed that there are no plans to change the engine of the JF-17, and it would use the same engine as the other Blocks.

No new engine i guess?

Good then, this underpowered jet, will remain that way.

 

[Tang]

Yes ,you are right ,JF 17 is good for countries which don't have a very high Defence Budget, countries which cannot afford High end Weopons like FA-18, F-35, Sukhois etc. For them JF 17 is good. It is a cheap Aircraft with Cheap Hardware etc for countries which want a cheap platform.

Soon those countries will also return this toy back, like they have been doing with Chinese drones.

 

[Super Flanker]

Soon those countries will also return this toy back, like they have been doing with Chinese drones.

Yes ,you are right, they will realise what type of junk They have bought and soon they will regret it. They will learn it the hard way. Chinese Quality products are always like that. Their reliability is doubtful to be honest.

 

[Tang]

Yes ,you are right, they will realise what type of junk They have bought and soon they will regret it. They will learn it the hard way. Chinese Quality products are always like that. Their reliability is doubtful to be honest.
View attachment 120920

Indeed

 

[Super Flanker]

Indeed
View attachment 120921

Yes now that is what I call" Chinese Technology"

Yeah boi

 

[Tshering22]

well you said countries will happily pay more. Still just like RD93, Ws13 is only for jf17. The number of jets orders are not in large quantity.

What I meant is that these countries don't need soft loans to buy a couple of dozen Jeff Sataras. Azerbaijan, Serbia, Nigeria and even Malaysia. They are not rich, that's a given but they are in way better a position than Pakistan to pay with something if not with cash.

Chinese want resources and that these countries can offer. Baku & Abuja can offer oil in exchange easily while Malaysia is already claiming to be able to pay in palm oil only.

Still PAF is not a rag tag AF. they have operated good jets and know that a jet with unreliable engine will not give them any edge.I still think PAF will stick with RD93.

RD-93 itself is the poorer cousin of RD-33 that powers the MiG-29. If you go by the reports of Indian Navy operating the latest Fulcrum series, you'd know that it was a miserable purchase. The MiGs can't carry fully payload, are mostly in service and have a service availability of 65%. With PAF looking to induct 250 of these, what ratio of service availability would they have?

China's intent is to use every last Pakistani against India and they are more than happy to become the testing ground for Chinese weapons.

 

[Vivek k]

40% Jets being unserviceable is hardly surprising. These high performance aircraft need a lot of maintenance and spares and if the operator does not invest in an appropriate inventory, fleet serviceability will suffer. With the LCA, a lower initial serviceability is possible if the operator is still building up logistics.

 

[Tshering22]

40% Jets being unserviceable is hardly surprising. These high performance aircraft need a lot of maintenance and spares and if the operator does not invest in an appropriate inventory, fleet serviceability will suffer. With the LCA, a lower initial serviceability is possible if the operator is still building up logistics.

The NATO availability is closer to 85%.

Tejas' availability is around 80-82% according to some online reports.

That should tell you that we have a very credible platform. We did take 35 years due to various genuine reasons but we have a reliable jet.