JF-17 Thunder / FC-1 Xiaolong

MIDKNIGHT FENERIR-00

VICTORIOUM AUT MORS
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I highly doubt they are interested in Russian Jet Engine technology given the low shelf life and high maintenance which comes with Russian Engines. They had access and still have access to Russian Jet Engines, if they haven't successfully reverse engineered before they won't be able to do it now. That is why espionage seems to be favorite for Chinese to gain to Jet Engine technology.


US says they have caught spies who were trying to or stole Jet Engine technology. Who knows what the Chinese have in their possession now.
They have to be content with Russian engine technology for now until they are self sufficient enough to make there own engines. Acquiring or stealing american or european engine technology is very hard and dangerous so russia is the cheaper and honestly economic option. before acquiring and later studying russian engines chinese have never made a modern jet engine with majority of there aircraft using older cold war era engines which were also russian copies.

Studying russian jets have hugely helped china in there own engine development programs. the thing about China is that even if they copy technology using under handed methods sometimes they are able to improve on that original specifications and make it better than original.

Majority of cyber attacks done by China are partial success and I believe they weren’t able to get any US engine specs from those attacks. US still controls who gets and who shouldn’t get there engines. It is very hard for China to steal especially now with trump in power and hostile relations with majority of the world.
 

BON PLAN

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Despite repeated Indian protests, Russia has agreed to supply upgraded RD-93MA engines to Pakistan – Defence News of India
A Russian company announced on Wednesday that a new engine for fighter aircraft that it had developed has been shipped for conducting thermal pressure chamber tests. The state-owned United Engine Corporation controls development and manufacturing of all engines for military, civilian and space use in Russia and for Russian exports. The UEC’s Klimov plant in St Petersburg had been developing the RD-93MA engine, which is a modification of the RD-93 engine, used on the JF-17 fighter, being built by Pakistan and China.

In a press release on its website on Wednesday, UEC said the RD-93MA engine had been shipped from St. Petersburg to Moscow for thermal pressure chamber trials at the Central Institute of Aviation Motors (CIAM). The pressure chamber trials at CIAM are expected to subject the RD-93MA engine to simulated heat and altitude conditions the power-plant would experience in actual flight.

The UEC press release states, “The RD-93MA engine has improved performance. In particular, increased thermodynamic parameters, an improved design of the fan and the hot part, an upgraded automatic power-plant control system… An additional emergency engine start mode was provided… and the possibility of emergency fuel drain was realised. All this is due to the specifics associated with the possible use of the power-plant on a single-engine aircraft…”

The reference to use in single-engine aircraft has given rise to speculation that the new engine is destined for the JF-17 fighter. This is because Russia does not have any active single-engine fighter project at the moment.

According to reports, the RD-93MA engine can produce maximum thrust of 9,300 kgf (kilogram-force). The RD-93MA would have significantly greater thrust than the existing RD-93 engine used on Pakistan’s JF-17 fighter, which can produce maximum thrust of 8,300kgf, according to UEC.

Having a new engine offers advantages in addition to increased thrust in combat situations. In December, Chinese state media confirmed that the latest version of the JF-17, dubbed the JF-17 Block 3, had made its maiden flight. The upgraded fighter will have new electronically scanned radar and other electronics, all of which necessitate higher power requirements than can be met by the existing power-plant.

Pakistan has already built over 100 JF-17 fighters for its air force and officials have indicated 62 JF-17 Block 3 fighters will be ordered by 2024.

In 2015, IHS Jane’s Defense Weekly reported Pakistan would continue to use Russian engines for the JF-17 even though China was developing an alternate engine. “We are completely satisfied with this Russian-made engine,” an official Pakistan Aeronautical Complex had told IHS Jane’s Defense Weekly. Pakistani officials had claimed “changing to another engine would not make any sense and would be disruptive and cause a huge expense for the JF-17 programme”.

Interestingly, the RD-93 has a connection to India. The RD-93 is developed from the RD-33 engine that powers the MiG-29UPG fighters of the Indian Air Force and MiG-29K jets of the Indian Navy. India operates over 60 MiG-29UPG jets and about 40 MiG-29K fighters. The government recently cleared the purchase of 21 MiG-29 fighters for the Indian Air Force.

Despite repeated Indian protests in the past two decades, Russia has continued supply of the RD-93 to China and Pakistan.
It's a proof of the strange game that the russian are playing !
- selling MiG and Su to India,
- delivering engine to Pk.
 

patriots

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It's a proof of the strange game that the russian are playing !
- selling MiG and Su to India,
- delivering engine to Pk.
Money matters.... Russian s also sold mi35 attack helicopters.....
If some day paf will ask for su57, Russia will be happy enough to sale them.....as...there is no buyer for su57 now
 

scatterStorm

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Air cooled asea radar even the west /USA haven't been able to develop such efficient Asea radar which can perform decently without liquid cooling Looks like Chinese have gained some next level technology.
Most of the Chinese aircraft have big engines 120+Kn we don't how they will perform with lesser power input of RD-33 engine and doesn't matter how much russi update that engine design and technical structure is of 1970s.
GE-404 is leagues ahead of that engine.
GE404 is stable engine but RD-33 has slight better T/W advantage. Mig29s are still capable fighters to this day. Absolutely I would pick GE-404 any day because of its reliability.
 

scatterStorm

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Air cooled asea radar even the west /USA haven't been able to develop such efficient Asea radar which can perform decently without liquid cooling Looks like Chinese have gained some next level technology.
Most of the Chinese aircraft have big engines 120+Kn we don't how they will perform with lesser power input of RD-33 engine and doesn't matter how much russi update that engine design and technical structure is of 1970s.
GE-404 is leagues ahead of that engine.
Plus since they have a AESA on there J20 with more TR modules, I think they could've stolen tech and apply some of there own R&D to make cheap smaller AESA radars with less TR modules. Otherwise why would you spend your enough money on producing crap all day.
 

Gshvar

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Chinese Engines still lack power. They weren’t able to completely crack russian engines apart. It might take at least 2 or 3 more years for them to fully copy and reverse engineer russian engine technology in mass numbers for there multitude of aircraft programs.
They could be more interested in stealth technology based engines.
 

Steven Rogers

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Air cooled asea radar even the west /USA haven't been able to develop such efficient Asea radar which can perform decently without liquid cooling Looks like Chinese have gained some next level technology.
Most of the Chinese aircraft have big engines 120+Kn we don't how they will perform with lesser power input of RD-33 engine and doesn't matter how much russi update that engine design and technical structure is of 1970s.
GE-404 is leagues ahead of that engine.
Air cooling basically means no cooling other than air circulation from the ECS...Without proper liquid cooling radar's performance will be highly limited and it will not operate for long target detection other wise the whole nose cone will be a toast with few minutes of operations,a typical aesa looses energy by heat and with no liquid cooling the modules will break....not even Gallium nitride can solve the problem and it will require a liquid cooling for longer detection of the targets,Gripen E's GaN radar uses liquid cooling...Dassault rafale's Aesa radar uses liquid cooling and it's detection range is only 40 percent higher than what Chinese mention in their brochure despite using 2.5 times more power the chinese claim on their air cooled aesa. And one must be joking of claiming a track of fighter aircraft at over 100 miles alone with an air cooled aesa whose total power output with the heat loss is around 4kW....
 

BON PLAN

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Air cooled asea radar even the west /USA haven't been able to develop such efficient Asea radar which can perform decently without liquid cooling Looks like Chinese have gained some next level technology.
Easy ! you just use your radar in emission far less !
Except, in some extent, with GaN, there is no magical solution to avoid heat.
P = RI² , even in China.
 

Tupac slayer

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Pakistan has to replace around 300 Aircraft 170 Mirages of various III and V Models and 130 F-7 P right now they have around 125 Thunders (-2 Lost in crashes) another some 68 are in orders. Still even if the 68 Aircraft's are delivered assuming it replaces 70 F-7 Aircraft, Pakistan still needs to replace around 230 Aircraft's, Either Pakistan has to increase number of JF-17 in its fleet or go for F-16 either from Turkey, Egypt, Venezuela, or Jordan. But buying more mirages for the sake of adding numbers doesn't make sense, It may be a good solution in short term but in long term replacement will be a problem.
 

WolfPack86

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China ramps up production of JF-17
China has ramped up production of JF-17 fighter jet, which was jointly developed with Pakistan.

In the first half of 2020, the number of aircraft delivered was the most in the past five years, according to industry reports. As of June 30, the production line of the JF-17 has on average shortened the production period of a single aircraft by 15 days compared to last year, Global Times reported.

Quoting the China Aviation News, a newspaper affiliated with the state-owned Aviation Industry Corporation of China (AVIC), the report said on Wednesday, the Pakistani Air Force (PAF) was the main operator of JF-17 fighter jets. Myanmar also flies the Chinese-Pakistani made fighter jets, it added.


The latest, powered-up version of the JF-17, known as the JF-17 Block 3, made its maiden flight in December 2019, the Aerospace Knowledge magazine had reported at that time. In March 2019, Yang Wei, chief designer of the China-Pakistan co-developed fighter jet, said development and production of the JF-17 Block 3 was under way, and the third block would see the JF-17's information-based warfare capability and weapons upgraded.

Some other countries have also approached AVIC about purchasing the JF-17 Block 3, Yang said last year.
 

Concard

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SD10 A for now . In future might get pl12 or even pl15 later of radar of block 3 is capable enough.
How do you see the ASELPOD Turkey supplied for JF-17? How does it compare to litening Pod of Israelis which we also use? What about our indigenous pod? How much progress we have made?

I hope I have not overloaded with too many questions.
 
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IndianHawk

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How do you the ASELPOD Turkey supplied for JF-17? How does it compare to litening Pod of Israelis which we also use? What about our indigenous pod? How much progress we have made?

I hope I have not overloaded with too many questions.
I don't know much about Turkish pod but it's no comparison to lightning pod. That's the best in business we rejected thales pod for rafale and chose lightning that's how good they are.

Our indegenious pod is a work in progress . Not much info with me may be ask @porky_kicker
 

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