JF-17 Thunder / FC-1 Xiaolong

vampyrbladez

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I wouldnt think so..
Considering that they've been producing flanker versions for quite a while now on their own, they are quite adept at upto 4th gen avionics.
5th gen avionics is anybody's guess. But the integration of the variety of control surfaces like high offset angle canards, all moving vertical stabs etc on J20 mean that they do have capability to produce some high quality avionics.
The Chinks produce pretty OK equipment. Comparable to Russian industry staple but not their bleeding edge technologies. Main problem for them was technology gap with Western countries which they were bridging using espionage and cyber warfare. After Trump made their life miserable and mass arresting Obama era moles, situation has become very difficult for them.
 

Bhurki

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The Chinks produce pretty OK equipment
A large amount of 'pretty OK' aircraft is actually far better than a few 'silver bullets', don't you think?..
By producing in large numbers, not only do they create extra expertise but economies of scale reduces the unit cost, decreasing cost for attrition and reserves.
And the expanded expertise base then has higher chances of getting through to advances in that field.
 

vampyrbladez

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A large amount of 'pretty OK' aircraft is actually far better than a few 'silver bullets', don't you think?..
By producing in large numbers, not only do they create extra expertise but economies of scale reduces the unit cost, decreasing cost for attrition and reserves.
And the expanded expertise base then has higher chances of getting through to advances in that field.
Numbers must have some decent training and logistics to go along with them. China has not seen combat in 5 decades. It's people have grown too soft.
 

Bhurki

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logistics to go along with them
What do you mean by logistics here?

It's people have grown too soft
That would be too speculative to say.
You could 100% right or 100% wrong or somewhere in the middle at the same time.

By the same standard, no major air force has had an actual air-air large engagement since decades, not even the US.
 

vampyrbladez

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Bhurki

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I think predisposing an entire race to act a certain way is disgraceful at best.

The best way to for someone to assess their enemy is always to do it at max possible value so as to not have something blow up in their face.

If you consider them to be weaker then they are, and by sheer chance, they perform better than expected, then who'll be at the problematic side?
Which is kind of exactly what happened in 1962.
 

fire starter

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I think predisposing an entire race to act a certain way is disgraceful at best.

The best way to for someone to assess their enemy is always to do it at max possible value so as to not have something blow up in their face.

If you consider them to be weaker then they are, and by sheer chance, they perform better than expected, then who'll be at the problematic side?
Which is kind of exactly what happened in 1962.
you forgot 1967 when their over confidence was totally destroyed.
 

IndianHawk

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I wouldnt think so..
Considering that they've been producing flanker versions for quite a while now on their own, they are quite adept at upto 4th gen avionics.
5th gen avionics is anybody's guess. But the integration of the variety of control surfaces like high offset angle canards, all moving vertical stabs etc on J20 mean that they do have capability to produce some high quality avionics.
I was talking avionics as in aircraft internals/ ew/ radars/ jammers.

About surfaces chinese have done ok. But that was the easy part. What defines 5th gen is seemless integration of sensors and stealth. Chinese are no where close to it. J20 is at best a semi stealth bomber it's no where near a proper Stealth fighter .
 

IndianHawk

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A large amount of 'pretty OK' aircraft is actually far better than a few 'silver bullets', don't you think?..
By producing in large numbers, not only do they create extra expertise but economies of scale reduces the unit cost, decreasing cost for attrition and reserves.
And the expanded expertise base then has higher chances of getting through to advances in that field.
Recently in an exercise Thai gripen decimated j11 almost absolutely.
I won't be so sure if Chinese strategy is good. Time will tell.
 

IndianHawk

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I think predisposing an entire race to act a certain way is disgraceful at best.

The best way to for someone to assess their enemy is always to do it at max possible value so as to not have something blow up in their face.

If you consider them to be weaker then they are, and by sheer chance, they perform better than expected, then who'll be at the problematic side?
Which is kind of exactly what happened in 1962.
In 1962 Nehru didn't thought Chinese were weak he simply thought there will be no war at all.

In 2019 doklam happened and Chinese learned that they don't have much advantage .
 

IndianHawk

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I'll give an example as to how shitty Chinese equipment are .
In aftermath of balakot Pakistan totally relied on Saab eyerie and all Chinese AWACS were grounded because they didn't work!!

Similarly jf17 couldn't face 30 year old mirages.

Go figure how advanced Chinese are.
 

Bhurki

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In 1962 Nehru didn't thought Chinese were weak he simply thought there will be no war at all.

In 2019 doklam happened and Chinese learned that they don't have much advantage .
you forgot 1967 when their over confidence was totally destroyed.
1967 or doklam were skirmishes saw no change of Control of Territory

1962 on the other hand was much more larger and led to Aksai Chin control change hands from India to China.
 

porky_kicker

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JF-17B from Different Perspective 2020
I don't like p.........

Yet me tell you something

Digital FBW in a aerodynamically stable aircraft like jf17 is always going to be sub optimal .

All modern fighters be it f16 , gripen , LCA ,Rafale are aerodynamically unstable aircrafts by design . It is also known as RSS ( relaxed static stability ) design . Hence all the above aircrafts being aerodynamically unstable needed digital FBW installed from the first flight itself without which they cannot even take off .

However since jf17 by design is a aerodynamically stable aircraft hence it was able to fly with analogue flight control systems like in older 3rd generation aircrafts. Later hybrid flight control system.

So incorporating digital FBW in stable designs like jf17 does not give any advantage interms of maneuverability , handling characteristics or incorporation of advance flight modes because digital FBW can only be fully exploited via aerodynamically unstable aircrafts.

Only advantage for jf17 via digital FBW is some reduction in SWaP parameters ie reduction in weight , power required , internal space gained , lower maintenance .

For info
Digital FBW was first implemented for F16 when requirement for a system capable enough to keep an aerodynamically unstable ( RSS design ) f16 flying without constant pilot input or it will crash.

So latter part of your video is wrong, but i dont see you accepting it because of your nationality . Either way it makes no difference .
 
Last edited:

Wuraid Khan

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I don't like p.........

Yet me tell you something

Digital FBW in a aerodynamically stable aircraft like jf17 is always going to be sub optimal .

All modern fighters be it f16 , gripen , LCA ,Rafale are aerodynamically unstable aircrafts by design . It is also known as RSS ( relaxed static stability ) design . Hence all the above aircrafts being aerodynamically unstable needed digital FBW installed from the first flight itself without which they cannot even take off .

However since jf17 by design is a aerodynamically stable aircraft hence it was able to fly with analogue flight control systems like in older 3rd generation aircrafts. Later hybrid flight control system.

So incorporating digital FBW in stable designs like jf17 does not give any advantage interms of maneuverability , handling characteristics or incorporation of advance flight modes because digital FBW can only be fully exploited via aerodynamically unstable aircrafts.

Only advantage for jf17 via digital FBW is some reduction in SWaP parameters ie reduction in weight , power required , internal space gained , lower maintenance .

For info
Digital FBW was first implemented for F16 when requirement for a system capable enough to keep an aerodynamically unstable ( RSS design ) f16 flying without constant pilot input or it will crash.

So latter part of your video is wrong, but i dont see you accepting it because of your nationality . Either way it makes no difference .
Dear,
Don't judge someone (especially from Pakistan) from your typical Indian hatred, I have gone through the details you shared regarding FBW and found it interesting & informative.
 

Bleh

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I don't like p.........

Yet me tell you something

Digital FBW in a aerodynamically stable aircraft like jf17 is always going to be sub optimal .

All modern fighters be it f16 , gripen , LCA ,Rafale are aerodynamically unstable aircrafts by design . It is also known as RSS ( relaxed static stability ) design . Hence all the above aircrafts being aerodynamically unstable needed digital FBW installed from the first flight itself without which they cannot even take off .

However since jf17 by design is a aerodynamically stable aircraft hence it was able to fly with analogue flight control systems like in older 3rd generation aircrafts. Later hybrid flight control system.

So incorporating digital FBW in stable designs like jf17 does not give any advantage interms of maneuverability , handling characteristics or incorporation of advance flight modes because digital FBW can only be fully exploited via aerodynamically unstable aircrafts.

Only advantage for jf17 via digital FBW is some reduction in SWaP parameters ie reduction in weight , power required , internal space gained , lower maintenance .

For info
Digital FBW was first implemented for F16 when requirement for a system capable enough to keep an aerodynamically unstable ( RSS design ) f16 flying without constant pilot input or it will crash.

So latter part of your video is wrong, but i dont see you accepting it because of your nationality Either way it makes no difference .
Given that Jf-17 heavily borrows from the F-7 platform, being aerodynamically stable makes sense.
IMG_20200209_161352.jpg
IMG_20200209_161320.jpg

It's less complicated to build & has commonality with their logistical expertise.
As long as Paki only do BVR engagements with it (as should we with the Mig-21 at this point), leaving WVR work to the F-16, it should do fine.

Other than having to go to China for upgradation & Block3 flying in China with fully Chinese equipments, making it what's Su-30 is to India, Jf-17 can be classified as a decent platform (for its price).
Dear,
Don't judge someone (especially from Pakistan) from your typical Indian hatred, I have gone through the details you shared regarding FBW and found it interesting & informative.
He explained why digital 3-axis FBW don't enhance controllability (& thus maneuverability) for stable fighter designs...The claim in the video is indeed technically incorrect.
 

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