JF-17 Thunder / FC-1 Xiaolong

[Steven Rogers]

no specs available here , so far...

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more about the AVIC group's LKF601E Air-cooled AESA , which was tested on a FC-1/JF-17 prototype.

this is a so called 'in-situ replacement' solution for the Light weight fighter AESA radar upgrade which can easily replaces the KLJ-7 radar of CETC group on the current Block1/2 without much effort.

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Anyone who has studied a little bit of science in his high school and secondary high knows that air cooling is used for the machines require performance not big demanding. If it is used on a demanding platform than 2 things most certainly rules, either manufacturer is so good in making machines with low power and high performance or he is just making a machine with low power and low performance. With GaA limit these radars are the example of the 2nd, though the area of the aperture seems big(big enough to be fitted on FC1) the radar gain will be good even if it emits low compared to a radar smaller in size and emitting the same , but will suffer heavy against a radar equivalent of the surface area and larger emission of microwaves(ofcourse due to better cooling system) . And in every case liquid cooling>air cooling.

 

[Aghore_King]

I'm afraid you are over optimistic !
Air intakes are all but stealthy : they are curved and absolutely not designed to. The hide the engine inlet? OK. That's all.
Spectra like? Where are the antennas? Where is your know how? (it's not an insult. Just a fact).
A Meteor equivalent? in 20 years? You are only developping ASTRA 1, a Skyflash equivalent.
To be second behind F22 is a wet dream, specially with a light single engined fighter, 30 years late on shedule.
Sorry.

Dude, we have developed D-29 ew system for Mig 29 UPG and Mayawi ew system for Tejas with the help of Israel. That is our know how....
Astra 1 is already a MICA equivalent and we are also developing Astra 2 and SFDR.
Air Intakes aren't designed to be stealthy, but they do shield the engine, thereby providing some degree of stealth, you can confirm that from pics of tejas.
And i can laugh at you that you ignored the post after the one which you quoted, there i already accepted that no comparison with F 22.

 

[Wuraid Khan]

JF-17 Air to Air Footage 2019

 

[BON PLAN]

Not 20 but with more recent 10 years when actual work done in making a more of an AMRAAM(C7) equivalent. And with 2 test firing of sfdr(which ofcourse is future as the context of the talk is based on future not present)india do have the know how.

ASTRA 1 on par with AMRAAM C7 ? Maybe. Maybe not.
In this case, why do you purchase DERBY?

 

[BON PLAN]

Comparing with f22 is definitely a wet dream but 30 years behind quote is an example of ignorance and false attitude which is a problem to many people living in this small but stupid world.

Tejas is so late... It's really incredible.
The main error was to study then buit simultaneously a fighter AND its engine.
Just imagine you choose the F404 or RD33 from the begining.... a mistake not made by China and Pak.

 

[vampyrbladez]

Tejas is so late... It's really incredible.
The main error was to study then buit simultaneously a fighter AND its engine.
Just imagine you choose the F404 or RD33 from the begining.... a mistake not made by China and Pak.

We gained Gas Turbine tech for UAVs here. Also you have to make a start somewhere!

 

[BON PLAN]

We gained Gas Turbine tech for UAVs here. Also you have to make a start somewhere!

Indeed. But it was so risky to study the two together....
An engine is a 10 years effort, as a radar.
A frame is a 3 to 5 years effort.
Better to separate the 2. But I know : it's so easy to redo history.

 

[vampyrbladez]

Indeed. But it was so risky to study the two together....
An engine is a 10 years effort, as a radar.
A frame is a 3 to 5 years effort.
Better to separate the 2. But I know : it's so easy to redo history.

Indian had no aerospace companies earlier. Now we have multiple ones. Times have improved for the sector!

 

[Steven Rogers]

ASTRA 1 on par with AMRAAM C7 ? Maybe. Maybe not.
In this case, why do you purchase DERBY?

Check the timelines....Derby has nothing to do with Astra. Astra will be serial produced by this year's end and we replace all r77 and r27s, while derby(relatively short range) was inducted way back, remember Astra will be the mainstay of The iaf and on all 272 Su30s.

 

[Steven Rogers]

Tejas is so late... It's really incredible.
The main error was to study then buit simultaneously a fighter AND its engine.
Just imagine you choose the F404 or RD33 from the begining.... a mistake not made by China and Pak.

Even with that it took less than 25 years...

 

[Rahul Singh]

Tejas is so late... It's really incredible.
The main error was to study then buit simultaneously a fighter AND its engine.
Just imagine you choose the F404 or RD33 from the begining.... a mistake not made by China and Pak.

LCA project received first funding only in the 1991-93 period but only for Technology Demonstrators.

Full-scale sanction for production standard model happened only 2003-04 period.

Tejas attained Initial Operational clearance in 2013. Ten years after the full sanction was given.

So how it is "so late"?

ASTRA 1 on par with AMRAAM C7 ? Maybe. Maybe not.
In this case, why do you purchase DERBY?

ASTRA MK1 is a MICA RF class missile.

India did not purchase a separate lot of DERBY for Tejas. HAL used missiles from Navy's Sea Harrier (which were getting retired then) stock and integrated it on Tejas( its MMR is half Isreali). It was done as a stop-gap measure until Astra-1 becomes available after induction in IAF.

Now that Astra 1 is getting inducted into IAF after successful integration with SU-30MKI, Tejas, Mig-29 and Mirage-2000 all will get integrated with Astra-1 in time.

On Tejas it is happening as we speak.

As and when DRDO SDFR -a Meteor class missile- is available Tejas will also get it. This is the reason why we did not accept European condition for having a European AESA for having Meteor on Tejas.

 

[HariPrasad-1]

much more capable than J 17 bunder...

Do not compare this shit with Tejas.

 

[HariPrasad-1]

manufacturing line than Tejas'

Assembly lines of Chinese supplied parts mostly in assembled condition.

 

[BON PLAN]

LCA project received first funding only in the 1991-93 period but only for Technology Demonstrators.

Full-scale sanction for production standard model happened only 2003-04 period.

Tejas attained Initial Operational clearance in 2013. Ten years after the full sanction was given.

So how it is "so late"?



ASTRA MK1 is a MICA RF class missile.

India did not purchase a separate lot of DERBY for Tejas. HAL used missiles from Navy's Sea Harrier (which were getting retired then) stock and integrated it on Tejas( its MMR is half Isreali). It was done as a stop-gap measure until Astra-1 becomes available after induction in IAF.

Now that Astra 1 is getting inducted into IAF after successful integration with SU-30MKI, Tejas, Mig-29 and Mirage-2000 all will get integrated with Astra-1 in time.

On Tejas it is happening as we speak.

As and when DRDO SDFR -a Meteor class missile- is available Tejas will also get it. This is the reason why we did not accept European condition for having a European AESA for having Meteor on Tejas.

India decided to developp the plane that become the LCA in 1983 (The design was frozion in 1990). Before rafale ! So it is very late now.

ASTRA is a MICA class missile? OK. But MICA is shorter in range versus late AMRAAM model.

I think you are modifyieng the real story about radar and Meteor. First you choose the israeli radar, on a cost basis, and after that you decided to ask for Meteor. You never linked the two things, unfortunately for you.
But don't worry : you will have a powerfull combo in a few months : Rafale + Meteor.

 

[BON PLAN]

Do not compare this shit with Tejas.

At least this shit is flying, in quantity, and is evolving.
Quantity is also a quality.

 

[rone]

At least this shit is flying, in quantity, and is evolving.
Quantity is also a quality.

Not in air defense densed air space,jf17 is sitings duck for most of Air defence systems

 

[Rahul Singh]

India decided to developp the plane that become the LCA in 1983 (The design was frozion in 1990). Before rafale ! So it is very late now.

ASTRA is a MICA class missile? OK. But MICA is shorter in range versus late AMRAAM model.

I think you are modifyieng the real story about radar and Meteor. First you choose the israeli radar, on a cost basis, and after that you decided to ask for Meteor. You never linked the two things, unfortunately for you.
But don't worry : you will have a powerfull combo in a few months : Rafale + Meteor.

Speaking of Rafale. Do you include Mirage-4000 testing phase in Rafale's overall development timeline?

The design of the production model of Tejas was only frozen when TD phase had completed. That's what logic dictates. Which was in the 2003-2004 period. This is the time when the SP phase, the actual phase has begun.

All is said Astra-1 is MICA RF class missile.

We never linked AESA MMR and METEOR for Tejas MK-1A because we were not desperate.

Isreali AESA in a sense is still an interim solution so is asking for METEOR on Tejas MK-1A. We have UTTAM AESA MMR and SDFR upcoming. And this is our potent powerful combo for future.

 

[Rahul Singh]

At least this shit is flying, in quantity, and is evolving.
Quantity is also a quality.

So how many of JF-17 will survive a Meteor shot from Rafale?

Which aircraft in PAF inventory can support JF-17 in a full data linked air engagement like Su-30mki and Rafale would support Tejas?

 

[rone]

So how many of JF-17 will survive a Meteor shot from Rafale?

Which aircraft in PAF inventory can support JF-17 in a full data linked air engagement like Su-30mki and Rafale would support Tejas?

I agree with you in first Statement but jf17 can supported by f16 ADF , they done specific modification for that, only problem is only f16 have ability to buddy mode while firing air to Air missile or they have to use awc to supliment for jf17, for IAF both su30 and rafels can do buddy mode for Tejas becoz India have it's own delicated data link

 

[Steven Rogers]

I agree with you in first Statement but jf17 can supported by f16 ADF , they done specific modification for that, only problem is only f16 have ability to buddy mode while firing air to Air missile or they have to use awc to supliment for jf17, for IAF both su30 and rafels can do buddy mode for Tejas becoz India have it's own delicated data link

No you're incorrect. F16 is exclusively linked With NATO platform only,it can't communicate with a Chinese or a Russian platform.