JF-17 Thunder / FC-1 Xiaolong

ThorTheRagnarok

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You very well understand what I am trying to say, F-404 is a better more reliable engine, I mentioned the term "crash" not because I wished to highlight that Rd-33 is crash prone, but as a consequence of unreliability of RD-33 as compared to F-404. And to prove that I quoted the example of Tejas, that is all I said. That is the reason behind the why F-404 is on Tejas and not RD-33. Su-30MKi has a different engine, while our Mig-29UPG and Mig-29Ks have RD-33s but these aren't our main fighters.
Dude the discussion was the reliability of westren engines vs Eastren engines
Who you like to reliable?
 

ThorTheRagnarok

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Please count the number of hours, number of sorties, number of fighters per crash to have a clear picture. Also su30mkis have had problems with fly by wire system many of the crash were due to this problem. And at least 2 crash were due to IAF using su30mkis crazy to extreme by practicing valley diving in Arunachal Pradesh.... Not a single crash due to engine failure. Yes su30mkis have had Flame out of one engine and emergency landing but no crash due to engine failure that's a property of Chinese fighter planes....:)
A brand new just out of the factory crashed due to engine failure in this April
If you insist I will quote the news and lets don't derail the thread!
 

lcafanboy

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May I?
If that so than why US is too much concerned about J-20 and started a exercise of F-22 vs F-22 on daily basis:troll:
US weapons lobby is very powerful and their army, Navy, air force top brass are corrupt to core, they hype enemy weapons to create fear so as to make US government fund new weapons r&d and acquisitions. Also they always remain ahead of the curve. They know eventually j20 will become a somewhat potent system by 2025-30 and so will start counter measures now. Even if they make it as capable as Rafales are now it will become headache in 2025 so they calculate threat perception early on. Nothing wrong in it. But for now J-20s are nothing more than technology demonstrators. PAKFA first flight was in 2010 and will mature by 2025-28, J20s will mature by 2030, Indian AMCA by 2035-38, so there's no challenge for Rafales, f22, f35, till then.
 

republic_roi97

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May I?
If that so than why US is too much concerned about J-20 and started a exercise of F-22 vs F-22 on daily basis:troll:
Don't bring in this usual, fictional "then-why-is-he-doing-that" BS here now. Prove factually that J-20 is indeed better than Rafale or EF Typhoon. #facts.
 

republic_roi97

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Dude the discussion was the reliability of westren engines vs Eastren engines
Who you like to reliable?
Dude, you replied to me quoted my post, I was just giving my views, that's it, never said anything about the general category of alleged "eastern engines" except RD-33.
 

republic_roi97

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A brand new just out of the factory crashed due to engine failure in this April
If you insist I will quote the news and lets don't derail the thread!
That aircraft was undergoing its post production trials and wasn't delivered to IAF, please do provide a news report where it is specifically mentioned that cause was "Engine Failure".
 

ThorTheRagnarok

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Don't bring in this usual, fictional "then-why-is-he-doing-that" BS here now. Prove factually that J-20 is indeed better than Rafale or EF Typhoon. #facts.
Did I use harsh words ?
Its a reality that F-22 vs F-22 exercise are going on daily basis go google it.J-20 is a new baby only Chinese know what he can do or not ...
 
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lcafanboy

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A brand new just out of the factory crashed due to engine failure in this April
If you insist I will quote the news and lets don't derail the thread!
Please provide links that this crash happened due to engine failure...

We have problems with manufacturing due to HAL being DPSU with chalta hai attitude from our reservation quota chaap parasite govt employees....

That being pre delivery trial flight crash can be for several reasons, engine definitely not the reason...I assure you...
 

ThorTheRagnarok

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Don't bring in this usual, fictional "then-why-is-he-doing-that" BS here now. Prove factually that J-20 is indeed better than Rafale or EF Typhoon. #facts.
If you consider US and pentagon as a foul bshitter than there will be one either you or US
 
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lcafanboy

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Accidental ingestion of foreign material not due to exploding engines like Chinese J series copy shits... Any turbofan engine will fail if foreign body gets ingested into it like bird ingestion, can't help it. Also I had specifically asked for links for brand new su30mki crash due to engine failure...
 

ThorTheRagnarok

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That is a different jet that crashed due to foreign matterial in intake, the one that was "brand new" happened on 27th June.
Dear Buddy
Go and check reports you tube the villagers happend to be there seen this mki was on fire. And also video fotages available
How this jet can be on fire although it engine is alright.
There is a cause that one can missile it but no other hostile there explain me?
 

ThorTheRagnarok

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Accidental ingestion of foreign material not due to exploding engines like Chinese J series copy shits... Any turbofan engine will fail if foreign body gets ingested into it like bird ingestion, can't help it. Also I had specifically asked for links for brand new su30mki crash due to engine failure...
Dear sir
Previous variants of j series chinese su-30mkm su-27UKB use the same engine which is used in su-30mki.again review ur argument.
 

republic_roi97

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Dear Buddy
Go and check reports you tube the villagers happend to be there seen this mki was on fire. And also video fotages available
How this jet can be on fire although it engine is alright.
There is a cause that one can missile it but no other hostile there explain me?
Bro you said this :-
A brand new just out of the factory crashed due to engine failure in this April
If you insist I will quote the news and lets don't derail the thread!
And then to back that up you gave this :-
Now I just highlighted that the post production jet that crashed during testing crashed on 27th June 2018 and the Wikipedia screenshot is of a different much earlier crash. That's it, no jet crashed due to engine failure, niether in 2009 nor in 2018.
 

jat

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My dear Sir,
America buys F/A-18 version C/D and F-15 Strike eagle which are ~ to SU-35
J-20 is expensive and not ought to be a naval strike air craft.
China has J-15 for naval strike role.
Heres the equation,
SU-27->SU-30mkm->J-11->J-16->SU-35
your ignorance is on another level. If China has J-15s for naval strike role, why did they buy the SU-35s? They could get 4 sqds instead of just 24 magic Su-35s. Does this make logistical sense to you?
The reason is also so simpler than this.
You wanted to make a westren level jet!
really, hard to do with out help from the west wouldn't it? Western level? WTF does that even mean? What your implying is that they wanted western technology, which they don't have. Eastern technology is within reach. What they probably wanted, was simple aircraft, they could build and provide some development to their aviation industry. Most importantly they probably went with 2 small engines in order to have redundancy and not have the aircraft fall out of the sky. Not to mention development of the engine is simplified as it now longer requires extensive safety certifications since there are 2.
The best thing I like about China is that it doesn't need any TOT .
It can can easily TOT of anything either the manufacturer want or not.
hahaha. Like the Su-27 of with they bought hundreds before ToT was offered? The design of Sovernmey hulls with purchase of 2 or 4? How about that Chinese rifle. Care to take a bid of which eastern european nation provided them with the blue prints? of wait. Those Y-20s, no way are they license production of Il76s...Your attempt is pathetic. The RnD programs of China are reall black holes. No ones sure how much money has gone in and what has come out. Only the CCP knows. We are left to assume. And assuming the ToT of Su-35 means they are lagging. The freaking Su-35 or Su-27SM is al most as advanced as the freakin Su-30MKI.
China is not yet able to replicate a jet engine successfully. RD-33 is inferior to F-404/414 and that is a fact. If not we would've easily bought it and manufactured it in India, what would have possibly stopped us ?
No one has easily developed jet engines. Russia has inefficient ones. The Americans have the best in all realms. The Europeans Eurofighter engines are just F414 assisted engines. The M88 engine of rafale would not have been possible with out assistance from America. Thats why no european nation can assist India building the Kaveri engine. The machines, tools etc, need to be imported from America. Russia can help, but India rejected license production of MKI engines and R33s.
My dear Sir
Who told you that WS-10 of J-10 WS-13 for J-31 Xian WS-15 for J-20 also many j series flankers are made by China
Reliable and also able to performing cobra maneuver leaf falling type easily.

As far as reliably is concerned so Is your mig-29,mig-29k and SU-30mki fleet is un reliable and you also crashed 8 SU-30mki so it means your is unreliable ?:troll:
i can't figure out if your a troll or just slow. The falcrum and flankers both are unreliable, largely in part to its engines. Thats why China buys them in builk.
 

no smoking

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your ignorance is on another level. If China has J-15s for naval strike role, why did they buy the SU-35s? They could get 4 sqds instead of just 24 magic Su-35s. Does this make logistical sense to you?
Please don't waste anyone's time. Su-35 is bought to replace the unsuccessful so far J-11D. On the other hand J-15 is based on the Su-33 which is modified specially to take off/land on aircraft carrier. She can't be replaced by Su-35. She got nothing to do with Su-35.
 

jat

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Please don't waste anyone's time. Su-35 is bought to replace the unsuccessful so far J-11D. On the other hand J-15 is based on the Su-33 which is modified specially to take off/land on aircraft carrier. She can't be replaced by Su-35. She got nothing to do with Su-35.
my mistake. J-15 J something abz. Even Sukio markets Su-27SM as a Su-35. But yea I know. Janes has already reported on the ToT transfer of Su-35. If China was doing so well in the avaition market they wouldn't have paid for ToT for essentially a expensived up Flanker. Exactly what India did, only a decade earlier.
 

ThorTheRagnarok

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my mistake. J-15 J something abz. Even Sukio markets Su-27SM as a Su-35. But yea I know. Janes has already reported on the ToT transfer of Su-35. If China was doing so well in the avaition market they wouldn't have paid for ToT for essentially a expensived up Flanker. Exactly what India did, only a decade earlier.
Hey look at this J-16D in my country View attachment 30169
Screenshot_25611212_183345.JPG
 

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no smoking

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There are 3 errors in your belief.


1. No, there was no ToT for Chinese on either Su-27, or Su-35. Chinese got much lower level of ToT from Russia comparing to India. At least, Russia provided some tech to allow India to manufacture some components locally with Russian material. To Chinese, Russians just wanted them to do assembling work with Russian components. But, somehow, Chinese manufacturers figured out how to use Chinese material to produce these components that Indians haven’t done that so far.

2. Can Chinese upgrade her J-11B to a plane on par with Su-35 by herself? Yes, they can. But the time and resources won’t allow it. If they want to do it, they need to go through full range wind tunnel experiment and structure strength test again which is pretty the work load of design a new plane. The PLAAF didn’t have the money and time for a second 4-generation fighter program on top of J-10. Without full understanding the aerodynamic design of Su-27, Shenyang can’t do the same level of upgrade as Su-35. But again, PLAAF doesn’t want to spend so much money on a 4-generation plane when they have J-20 and J-31 in the line.

Chinese indeed did a great job in their aviation industry. But this greatness is about their catching up speed not the current level of their industry.
 

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