JF-17 Thunder / FC-1 Xiaolong

[Dazzler]

Pilot will do what he will be asked to do... What did you expected in very first international display it will show off ... DRDO has not yet opened up the LCA for full scale maneuverability ...

Man, doing so should not stress the airframe and will not break the 8G mark as claimed by many in this forum. Talking about 8G, the LCA didnt even touch 7G in this display. in fact, the first day display was better than the second in terms of transition from one maneuver to another but still it didnt touch 7G at any stage.

the slow speed pass was also strictly controlled with the pilot reluctant to pull the stick further to touch the 24 degree angle which again indicates a cautious approach. All of this is understandable from a plane that is still being tested but here we have fanboys making what not of their plane and abusing the thunder which is in service and has achieved several feats to date.


Tell this to your buddies.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

i saw it pulling like a brick without any maneuvers to the left or right as if the pilot was scared he might drop a wing if he did so. pathetic really.

Means there's a serious problem with your eyes. Go to the doctor for a proper medical course and then, start watching it again.

 

[bose]

Man, doing so should not stress the airframe and will not break the 8G mark as claimed by many in this forum. Talking about 8G, the LCA didnt even touch 7G in this display. in fact, the first day display was better than the second in terms of transition from one maneuver to another but still it didnt touch 7G at any stage.

the slow speed pass was also strictly controlled with the pilot reluctant to pull the stick further to touch the 24 degree angle which again indicates a cautious approach. All of this is understandable from a plane that is still being tested but here we have fanboys making what not of their plane and abusing the thunder which is in service and has achieved several feats to date.


Tell this to your buddies.

See, Honestly I am not a technical person and with very limited understanding to reply to your post... It is very well understood that LCA can only be inducted in IAF with 28 * AOA and if it pulls 8G among others requirements... these two above mentioned have been already achieved and still there are some restriction on LCA and DRDO is very cautious on letting the LCA to open up fully... any misshape will kill the project permanently...

One thing I will like to point out to Pakistanis you are going get some surprise from LCA... make no mistake...

@warrior monk @Gessler or @ersakthivel will be able to reply your contention ...

 

[Dazzler]

See, Honestly I am not a technical person and with very limited understanding to reply to your post... It is very well understood that LCA can only be inducted in IAF with 28 * AOA and if it pulls 8G among others requirements... these two above mentioned have been already achieved and still there are some restriction on LCA and DRDO is very cautious on letting the LCA to open up fully... any misshape will kill the project permanently...

One thing I will like to point out to Pakistanis you are going get some surprise from LCA... make no mistake...

@warrior monk @Gessler or @ersakthivel will be able to reply your contention ...

Surprises should be expected mate if we go by the history, we see the fishbeds surprising the phantoms, the frescos getting the better of super sabers and the trend continues.

Having said that, the deltas, despite their ability to provide more wing mass, are draggy and put a lot of stress on the airframe. Despite a good FBW system, the LCA and Mirage for that matter, may get an upper hand in the Instantaneous turn, but cannot sustain a small turn due to its delta wings. thing would have been better if it had a more powerful turbofan though.

Compared to that, the cropped delta (f-16, jf-17) will have a higher sustain rate and can hold on its own against the delta in most flight regimes, gaining an advantage in the close combat often.


on a side note, in turning performance, the jf-17 outdid the f-16 in its first mock dogfight in the PAF. This was admitted by the former wing commander Ahsan Rafique, an f-16 jockey.

"In close combat the JF-17 excels at being truly agile and responsive to the pilot's commands."

Wng Cdr Ahsan Rafiq, OC JF-17 Test and Evaluation Flight, Pakistan Air Force.

Courtesy: Air Force Monthly (AFM), U.K - April 2009.

 

[bose]

Surprises should be expected mate if we go by the history, we see the fishbeds surprising the phantoms, the frescos getting the better of super sabers and the trend continues.

Having said that, the deltas, despite their ability to provide more wing mass, are draggy and put a lot of stress on the airframe. Despite a good FBW system, the LCA and Mirage for that matter, may get an upper hand in the Instantaneous turn, but cannot sustain a small turn due to its delta wings. thing would have been better if it had a more powerful turbofan though.

Compared to that, the cropped delta (f-16, jf-17) will have a higher sustain rate and can hold on its own against the delta in most flight regimes, gaining an advantage in the close combat often.


on a side note, in turning performance, the jf-17 outdid the f-16 in its first mock dogfight in the PAF. This was admitted by the former wing commander Ahsan Rafique, an f-16 jockey.

"In close combat the JF-17 excels at being truly agile and responsive to the pilot's commands."

Wng Cdr Ahsan Rafiq, OC JF-17 Test and Evaluation Flight, Pakistan Air Force.

Courtesy: Air Force Monthly (AFM), U.K - April 2009.

When countries are designing using the delta wing configuration such as Rafale or EFT Typhoon there must be some compelling reasons for that and sure there will be some give an take ... It is to be seen for what purpose the LCA or that matter any fighter plane is been inducted... if it serves that purpose or not... IAF thinks LCA with AESA and EW suite will fill their purpose... I am fine with it...

We all know that Mig-29 is super maneuverable fighter and I have seen Mig-29 pilots claim that Mig-29 is such a good fighter plane that "Men can break while flying Mig-29 but the Machine will not"... Do you think if Mig-29 comes F2F with a F-18 Hornet which is based on different philosophy or design considerations will be a easy walk over ??

My little knowledge says looking at the videos do not be judgmental about a fighters capability. [ sometimes occasionally it is good to have some fun] but I would remind you that most of these displays are managed and are done with a particular intent only for specific types of audiences...

You have talked about LCA history ... There is no going back on LCA and future is very bright ... I repeat again the actual capability of LCA even in maneuverability is under restriction until it gets to the stage of FOC definitely by mid of 2016.

 

[tsunami]

Means there's a serious problem with your eyes. Go to the doctor for a proper medical course and then, start watching it again.

First cousin marriages have it's effect on their eyes too other then brain.

 

[Dazzler]

First cousin marriages have it's effect on their eyes too other then brain.

great response, do inform us more about your expertise.

 

[Dazzler]

Means there's a serious problem with your eyes. Go to the doctor for a proper medical course and then, start watching it again.

it simply means i see it as it is from a neutral viewpoint instead of false rhetoric and chest thumping.

 

[Dazzler]

a new video emerged, equipped with sd-10s

 

[tsunami]

great response, do inform us more about your expertise.

No I don't have that rehani expertise by which you can just guess RCS of a plain, and can claim that how much Gs or AoA it's pulling by just looking at any video.

 

[guru-dutt]

Ajay Banerjee

Tribune News Service

New Delhi, January 31

The Ministry of Defence has decided to locally produce 106 upgraded Light Combat Aircraft “Tejas” jets to replace the ageing fleet of MiG fighter aircraft of the Indian Air Force.


The “Tejas Mark 1-A” will have 43 improvements over the existing Tejas currently being test-flown by the IAF for various parameters and slated for final operation clearance in March. The existing project is running years behind schedule.


Sources told The Tribune that a decision has been taken to produce 106 “Tejas Mark 1-A” jets and the same has been conveyed to the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO), besides the manufacturer — Bangalore-based Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL), a public sector undertaking owned by MoD.


The MoD has set a 2018 deadline for the first aircraft to be ready with a target to complete its production by 2022-2023. In September, new specifications were agreed upon and the IAF accepted 43 modifications that could be carried out without changing the existing design.


On the list of modifications are five major improvements, including an AESA (active electronically scanned array) radar, which the HAL will co-develop with Israel firm Elta; air-to-air refuelling facility; externally fitted self-protection jammer to prevent incoming enemy missiles from homing in using radar signature; and a new layout, involving 27 modifications, of internal systems to iron out maintenance issues.


The plane will be 1,000 kg lighter than the existing version, which currently weighs 6,500 kg, but will use the same engine — General Electric’s 404. “The power of the engine is more than enough,” said a senior functionary. Fitting the newer and more powerful GE-414 engine would entail fresh design and airframe studies.


The HAL has been asked to produce 16 jets annually and a Rs 1,252-crore modernisation plan has been okayed to ramp up capacities from the present six-seven planes annually.


The decision will go a long way in keeping the IAF battle-ready. The upgraded jets will fill the void created by MiG-21s and MiG-27s that will be phased out by 2022.


There are 260 Soviet-era single-engine MiG-21 and MiG-27 jets in the IAF fleet. The air force needs 400 jets over the next 10 years.
http://www.tribuneindia.com/news/nation/106-upgraded-tejas-jets-to-replace-migs/190424.html


so in short 106 Mk1a + 20 MK1 tejas confirmed for IAF now al bakistani fizaaiyaa will be even more rattelled

 

[guru-dutt]

PS in short

1. EL-2052 radar and Paython5,Derby and I Derby ER for air to air role

2.same GE404 engine but with 500-800 Kg lesser wieght meaning great power to wieght ratio for more speed and feul econmy meaning better air to air capability

3.since radar and EW & ECM is israeli meaning all israeli air to ground and air to air and anty radiation missiles intigrated


seems pretty decent fighting machine @Dazzler @Zarvan @Al_Asad_Al_Mulk what have you guys to say on it

and if USA & Israel are OK with it then tejas just might be exported to vietnam and some asian and south american nations aswell but only after indian order is fullfilled

 

[HariPrasad-1]

Man, doing so should not stress the airframe and will not break the 8G mark as claimed by many in this forum. Talking about 8G, the LCA didnt even touch 7G in this display. in fact, the first day display was better than the second in terms of transition from one maneuver to another but still it didnt touch 7G at any stage.

Exactly. We can not maneuver this aircraft like what we do in testing at Bangalore. Inspite of not touching even 7g, Look at the timing it got in some important maneuvers. 20 Second for horizontal loop. 16 to 17 second in vertical loop. 10 second in take off inspite of rare landing gear covers are used for breaking. Now compare that with JF 17. Respective timings are 12 second, 26 seocnd (270*only and not 360*) and 19 second. We have a plan o maneuver tejas at 10 g for 8g certification and AOA 28* for certification of 26*. Your plane can not exceed 17* AOA. There is a bloody hell of a difference in timing and all important parameters.

Stiff our plane is very primery stage. It has yet to deliver its best. Your operational for last 5 years can not match our bird on any parameter nor it can come any where close. You guys hype your plane but unable to give due credit to ours. In its first performance, it impressed many and make your aircraft withdrew. This is not at ll a small achievement.

The weight reduction and aerodynamic changes are yet to follow. just wait for some time.

 

[Bornubus]

PS in short

1. EL-2052 radar and Paython5,Derby and I Derby ER for air to air role

2.same GE404 engine but with 500-800 Kg lesser wieght meaning great power to wieght ratio for more speed and feul econmy meaning better air to air capability

3.since radar and EW & ECM is israeli meaning all israeli air to ground and air to air and anty radiation missiles intigrated


seems pretty decent fighting machine @Dazzler @Zarvan @Al_Asad_Al_Mulk what have you guys to say on it

and if USA & Israel are OK with it then tejas just might be exported to vietnam and some asian and south american nations aswell but only after indian order is fullfilled

Astra mk 1 range 80 - 110 km and Astra Mk 2 150 km.

In the meantime Derby and Python along with AESA is a great combo not to mention R 73E has no match in WVR.

 

[guru-dutt]

Astra mk 1 range 80 - 110 km and Astra Mk 2 150 km.

In the meantime Derby and Python along with AESA is a great combo not to mention R 73E has no match in WVR.

well astra will come as when its ready no point in waisting time till then

 

[Indx TechStyle]

it simply means i see it as it is from a neutral viewpoint instead of false rhetoric and chest thumping.

Must be talking about land of purr..
:biggrin2:

 

[Indx TechStyle]

great response, do inform us more about your expertise.

We inferior kaffirs can only say just a little about you.
This was a small piece of honour as we aren't worthy to speak bigger honours otherwise, your insultedometer will explode.

 

[salute]

Surprises should be expected mate if we go by the history, we see the fishbeds surprising the phantoms, the frescos getting the better of super sabers and the trend continues.

Having said that, the deltas, despite their ability to provide more wing mass, are draggy and put a lot of stress on the airframe. Despite a good FBW system, the LCA and Mirage for that matter, may get an upper hand in the Instantaneous turn, but cannot sustain a small turn due to its delta wings. thing would have been better if it had a more powerful turbofan though.

Compared to that, the cropped delta (f-16, jf-17) will have a higher sustain rate and can hold on its own against the delta in most flight regimes, gaining an advantage in the close combat often.


on a side note, in turning performance, the jf-17 outdid the f-16 in its first mock dogfight in the PAF. This was admitted by the former wing commander Ahsan Rafique, an f-16 jockey.

"In close combat the JF-17 excels at being truly agile and responsive to the pilot's commands."

Wng Cdr Ahsan Rafiq, OC JF-17 Test and Evaluation Flight, Pakistan Air Force.

Courtesy: Air Force Monthly (AFM), U.K - April 2009.

paki commander whether he is a donkey jockey or goat jockey,

like everyone gonna take his words for grant.

 

[salute]

Man, doing so should not stress the airframe and will not break the 8G mark as claimed by many in this forum. Talking about 8G, the LCA didnt even touch 7G in this display. in fact, the first day display was better than the second in terms of transition from one maneuver to another but still it didnt touch 7G at any stage.

the slow speed pass was also strictly controlled with the pilot reluctant to pull the stick further to touch the 24 degree angle which again indicates a cautious approach. All of this is understandable from a plane that is still being tested but here we have fanboys making what not of their plane and abusing the thunder which is in service and has achieved several feats to date.


Tell this to your buddies.

how you know what was the g force or angle of flight,

were you at bahrain holding g force and angle measuring instruments.

 

[Dazzler]

No I don't have that rehani expertise by which you can just guess RCS of a plain, and can claim that how much Gs or AoA it's pulling by just looking at any video.

on the contrary, the G effects during a flight can be judged by generated vortexes, speed and time the aircraft took to complete a given maneuver. the less time it takes, the more G effects it achieved. Same is the case with the AoA, the higher the nose is pointed, the more AoA it achieved. There is no rocket science in it.