Japan-India-Vietnam Strategic Trilateral- An Asian Security Imperative

[prohumanity]

Re: Japan-India-Vietnam Strategic Trilateral- An Asian Security Impera

Just to add a clear-cut clarification; the India-Japan-Vietnam Strategic Military alliance that i would propose,
given the opportunity is not necessarily aimed at any particular country and is not necessarily a containment arrangement.


Now, I agree to your suggestion....with this clarification that this alliance should not be against any particular country...like China. Because if we pre define an enemy and then, make alliance, I fear India is falling in the Western trap and end up being used for the West's "China containment and global hegemony policy" India never wanted to control and enslave any nation..its the western powers who has this narcissistic disease of enslaving other nations. India and China can co-exist if both have very powerful, militaries and reach to conclusion that war means MAD(mutually assured destruction)
Same for West, If West starts realizing that attacking a major nation like Russia, India,China can result in MAD, it certainly and quickly will be cured of the disease called" Hegemonia" and learn the great Indian value of "peaceful coexistence" Yes, Shinzo want to free Japan from clutches of US, but that is not possible in next 25 years at least . India should not rush to alliance as it will lead to indirect control of West on India's military as Japan is still a puppet and client state of US. I believe India by itself is capable of dealing with any threat .Just imagine the power of a few million Indian young men and women as Cyber warriors who can blow up any enemy's computer systems and cause havoc with their financial and banking operations. It's the determination and strong will of 1.2 billion Nationalistic Indians which can stand up to any nation or group of nations. India does not need to be subservient to West because West still harbors the illusion of being the controller of the Universe.

 

[no smoking]

Re: Japan-India-Vietnam Strategic Trilateral- An Asian Security Impera

it is you who are hiding head in the sand - Japan and India have already marked several bilateral military deals without any involvement from the usa .... even on this very forum one can read of those cooperation and deals

No, Japanese already got the permission from USA even before they come to your table. Just remember: most of Japanese weapons are carrying some US technologies.

we dont owe you a dime to figure out what " military promises" we can give.

But you owe it to yourselves and your potential allies.

even if the India -Japan -Vietnam military alliance start off with simply strategic interests meetings it is good enough for a start, but really the India -Japan military deals have already gone beyond that

No matter how many times you kiss each other, you still can't avoid the question before going to the bed: what is your commitment in this relationship.

sorry you cant stop it - it will progress, perhaps slowly but it will, then the flood stage will come.

No, we don't want to stop it. Without american's back up, all these India-Japan alliance is just a talk show, nothing more and nothing less.

 

[prohumanity]

Re: Japan-India-Vietnam Strategic Trilateral- An Asian Security Impera

Once again, I say India is capable of defending itself from any nation if it continues on current path of self sufficiency in weapon systems. India does not need to take sides. India's goal should be world peace through strength and mutual respect. Just enough military strength of its own that no power can dare to threaten it ..neither China nor West.

 

[roma]

Re: Japan-India-Vietnam Strategic Trilateral- An Asian Security Impera

No, Japanese already got the permission from USA even before they come to your table. Just remember: most of Japanese weapons are carrying some US technologies.

No, we don't want to stop it. Without american's back up, all these India-Japan alliance is just a talk show, nothing more and nothing less.

Hello Sir, aren't you are contradicting yourself in the same post ?
Above you said they have usa approval to come to the table, lower you said no use without approval ?

Fact is; usa will approve each JV on a case by case basis as long as it is directed even if obliquely at prc,
obviously because the usa needs the extra hands to do some of their work as they cant do it all on their own
Fact is; a number of bilateral JV's are already in physical progress and its not a "talk show" - but reality in progress

Again i emphasize that it is NOT directed against prc-china JUST as pak-china alliance is NOT directed against India .

 

[prohumanity]

Re: Japan-India-Vietnam Strategic Trilateral- An Asian Security Impera

Lack of knowledge of history leads people to make faulty conclusions. West has never dealt with other civilizations on equal footings. West wants you when it needs you and easily discards you afterwards.. For them ,Its all about "our interests". Only Master-Slave relationship is possible with West. It needed Pakistan, used it for 60 years, radicalized it to destroy USSR and ,then, dumped it as Paki has become a liability now. India was insulted, threatened and undermined by West and now, that India developed courage, economy and strength. , suddenly West wants to have "strategic alliance" Do not forget, In 1975, Richard Nixon went to China and made a "strategic alliance" and now, it wants to contain and destroy China. Opportunism and narrow self interest is the core of western foreign policy. If being a Western ally is such a great thing, why Philippines is starving, why Pakistan is going down the drain, why Ukraine is in pieces, ? These nations should have been rich and strong. Right. Western propaganda machine is non stop 24/7 spilling lies and falsehood. Talk of democracy and support dictators and use them against democratic nations. Some names...Saddam, Mubarak, Zia, Musharaff and the list goes on and on. Indians are not stupid...they understand the crookster mindset. And now, that Western economies are going down, unemployment is all time high ...It needs new markets to exploit. Feed them Junk McDonald food, get them addicted to Philip Morris Cigarettes, create a selfish, materialistic mind in Eastern people so they can be enslaved by credit cards, mortgages and car loans. Then will come disintegration of families communities ,drugs and school shootings and stabbings. Does India want this degenerate culture of consumerism or India wants to go back to its past glorious values of sharing and caring for all citizens and living with wisdom and peace with all its neighbors.
Lastly, create chaos and civil unrest in other nations and then sell them weapons to make profits.
Taiwan against China, So Korea against N.Korea, Pakistan against India, Ukraine against Russia ...this dirty game of divide ,create enmity and sell weapons will not work for long.

 

[no smoking]

Re: Japan-India-Vietnam Strategic Trilateral- An Asian Security Impera

Hello Sir, aren't you are contradicting yourself in the same post ?
Above you said they have usa approval to come to the table, lower you said no use without approval ?

Fact is; usa will approve each JV on a case by case basis as long as it is directed even if obliquely at prc,
obviously because the usa needs the extra hands to do some of their work as they cant do it all on their own

Looks like you already answer your own question, right?

Fact is; a number of bilateral JV's are already in physical progress and its not a "talk show" - but reality in progress

Again i emphasize that it is NOT directed against prc-china JUST as pak-china alliance is NOT directed against India .

Well, for your information, USA and China have also some JV on military equipments, do you think they are going be military alliance? Of course not.
As long as you have no military guarantee to each other, all this "strategic Trilateral" is just a "talk show". And so far you have put up anything related to this military obiligation.

 

[W.G.Ewald]

Re: Japan-India-Vietnam Strategic Trilateral- An Asian Security Impera

why US is necessary in every thing,why not india kick out corrupt congress and develop naval and other assets on larger numbers and join other asian powers like japan...etc.

You raise 2 questions. Answer to first is: look at history.

Answer to second is more questions. Does India have resources and the will?

 

[DBF1954]

Re: Japan-India-Vietnam Strategic Trilateral- An Asian Security Impera

Also its worthwile to mention the other nations who are against a US dominated Asia and who have strong armies: Russia, North Korea and Pakistan. If India joins the US and cooperates closely, ammunition and arms from Russia are unlikely to be delivered. Its even possible that Pakistan will be supported by Putin. Such considerations are more important for India than any situation in Japan or Vietnam.

South Korea has also US support and technology but is very unlikely to help Japan, even as they don't like a Chinese dominated Far East. Each country has its own history and ideology and a cooperation like within NATO is not going to happen.

 

[no smoking]

Re: Japan-India-Vietnam Strategic Trilateral- An Asian Security Impera

You know what Silence is Golden.Mr. Modi will deliver and when he does you shall see the true glory of our country.

Unless Mr Modi can convince Indian rich to give up some of their interests or Indian poors to accept an even more miserable lives in next 2 decades.

 

[Peter]

Re: Japan-India-Vietnam Strategic Trilateral- An Asian Security Impera

Unless Mr Modi can convince Indian rich to give up some of their interests or Indian poors to accept an even more miserable lives in next 2 decades.

I could not understand you properly but yes the wealthy Indians should also contribute towards the welfare of our country. Our problem is corruption and black money.I am sure Mr. Modi will tackle both of these problems as he is a smart and efficient leader.

 

[roma]

Re: Japan-India-Vietnam Strategic Trilateral- An Asian Security Impera

USA and China have also some JV on military equipments, do you think they are going be military alliance?

Not necessarily alliance, but yes it is a form of military cooperation on SPECIFIC issues,
between the USA and China.

Looks like you already answer your own question, right?
Well, for your information, USA and China have also some JV on military equipments, do you think they are going be military alliance? Of course not.
As long as you have no military guarantee to each other, all this "strategic Trilateral" is just a "talk show". And so far you have put up anything related to this military obiligation.

Just to clarify :-
The India -Japan and eventually Vietnam military relationship should not be in the old
former concepts along which lines you might be thinking. This is not a "you come and help me if i am attacked",
arrangement which was part the older concepts.

Especially for countries which have large populations, it is TECHNOLOGY rather than manpower
which is the issue.

So while you are going on and on about no-one fights for another ( which is arguably correct ),
on the other hand I am talking primarily about the transfer of MILITARY technology
which can be done by passing even a sheet of paper (eg blueprint, know-how ) from Japan to India and occasionally
( Eg Nuke tech ) in the opposite direction, and even that can be done electronically these days !

You in China (especially ) should know that as you have passed many sheets of paper to your nation
while doing "innocent" university research in the USA.

So the cooperation is more a meeting of the minds and not your olden days concept of "you come and fight for me", and that meeting of minds has already taken place, with results, and is growing.

 

[ninja85]

Re: Japan-India-Vietnam Strategic Trilateral- An Asian Security Impera

You raise 2 questions. Answer to first is: look at history.

Answer to second is more questions. Does India have resources and the will?

you are right but it's not just about will it's also about need and india can have resources in 10 years easily what india need is strong govt. which we don't have past 10 years since corrupt khangress is ruling(looting) the country.

 

[no smoking]

Re: Japan-India-Vietnam Strategic Trilateral- An Asian Security Impera

Not necessarily alliance, but yes it is a form of military cooperation on SPECIFIC issues,
between the USA and China.

But these military cooperations has nothing to do with JV.

Just to clarify :-
The India -Japan and eventually Vietnam military relationship should not be in the old
former concepts along which lines you might be thinking. This is not a "you come and help me if i am attacked",
arrangement which was part the older concepts.

My friend, without this "you come and help me if am attacked" obligation, your military alliance is just no better than a "talk show".

Especially for countries which have large populations, it is TECHNOLOGY rather than manpower
which is the issue.

You can get those technology without a seurity imperative.

So while you are going on and on about no-one fights for another ( which is arguably correct ),
on the other hand I am talking primarily about the transfer of MILITARY technology
which can be done by passing even a sheet of paper (eg blueprint, know-how ) from Japan to India and occasionally
( Eg Nuke tech ) in the opposite direction, and even that can be done electronically these days !

That is funny, now you are segguesting this is not a security imperative but a business trade agreement?

You in China (especially ) should know that as you have passed many sheets of paper to your nation
while doing "innocent" university research in the USA.

Looks like someone just run out of his arguent.

So the cooperation is more a meeting of the minds and not your olden days concept of "you come and fight for me", and that meeting of minds has already taken place, with results, and is growing.

So, now you admit this security imperative is a "talk show".

 

[desicanuk]

Re: Japan-India-Vietnam Strategic Trilateral- An Asian Security Impera

why US is necessary in every thing,why not india kick out corrupt congress and develop naval and other assets on larger numbers and join other asian powers like japan...etc.

Not likely unless we achieve double digit economic growth for at least couple of decades.That's how the very pragmatic Chinese pulled it off.We Indians are too much bogged down in ideological rhetoric to replicate the Chinese experience.

 

[roma]

Re: Japan-India-Vietnam Strategic Trilateral- An Asian Security Impera

But these military cooperations has nothing to do with JV.
So, now you admit this security imperative is a "talk show".

partial quote above:-
Please dont take my word for it that India - Japan is a relevant and growing military cooperative alliance.
Instead look at what media says (it's todays' article );-
Foreign secretary to test Beijing waters before new govt checks in - The Times of India
in particular i quote from it :-
"China is particularly worried that its major rival, Japan, would manage to sway India's foreign policy in favour of Tokyo using its ability to provide funds and technology."

That should put paid to your continual assertion that it's merely a talk shop.. You can keep denying it but the
diplomatic opinion even from your country is contrary to your opinion

With that, i end my part of the dialog, i suppose you would continue to deny ?
Anyway, Regards.

 

[no smoking]

Re: Japan-India-Vietnam Strategic Trilateral- An Asian Security Impera

partial quote above:-
Please dont take my word for it that India - Japan is a relevant and growing military cooperative alliance.
Instead look at what media says (it's todays' article );-
Foreign secretary to test Beijing waters before new govt checks in - The Times of India
in particular i quote from it :-
"China is particularly worried that its major rival, Japan, would manage to sway India's foreign policy in favour of Tokyo using its ability to provide funds and technology."

That should put paid to your continual assertion that it's merely a talk shop.. You can keep denying it but the
diplomatic opinion even from your country is contrary to your opinion

With that, i end my part of the dialog, i suppose you would continue to deny ?
Anyway, Regards.

Sorry, it is my fault to wake you up from the dream: what a wonderful world, India can get everything with paying a price.

 

[roma]

Re: Japan-India-Vietnam Strategic Trilateral- An Asian Security Impera

Sorry, it is my fault to wake you up from the dream: what a wonderful world, India can get everything with paying a price.

Not really, not to the extent that packland gets nuke technology and J10 aircraft etc etc etc without paying, from PRC

There actually are a few technologies ( nuke, radiation ) that India can help Japan plus a huge market that india will allow japan access to in return - so it wont be as "price-free" as what pak ( thinks they ) are getting from prc

Not really a dream, just a belated answer to the China-packland alliance against India that has been going on for decades
The delay was mainly on the part of Japan as they were "dreaming" of friendship with PRC

Actually you did wake us up from our dreams, of friendship with PRC, - not by your dfi post, but in 1962
Now you have just woken Japan up from their dream - with your ambitions in the eastern seas.-
Many thanks for that second one.

 

[roma]

Re: Japan-India-Vietnam Strategic Trilateral- An Asian Security Impera

Some further indication that Japananese militarization is on the rise
Chances for a "talk show" are therefore greatly reduced. :-

http://www.ndtv.com/article/world/j...s-angering-china-510868?pfrom=home-topstories

Japan expands army footprint for first time in 40 years, risks angering China

Yonaguni: Japan began its first military expansion at the western end of its island chain in more than 40 years on Saturday, breaking ground on a radar station on a tropical island off Taiwan.

The move risks angering China, locked in a dispute with Japan over nearby islands which they both claim.

Japanese Defence Minister Itsunori Onodera, who attended a ceremony on Yonaguni island to mark the start of construction, suggested the military presence could be enlarged to other islands in the seas southwest of Japan's main islands.

"This is the first deployment since the US returned Okinawa (1972) and calls for us to be more on guard are growing," Onodera told reporters. "I want to build an operation able to properly defend islands that are part of Japan's territory."

( first few paras quoted above )

 

[laughingbuddha]

Not likely unless we achieve double digit economic growth for at least couple of decades.That's how the very pragmatic Chinese pulled it off.We Indians are too much bogged down in ideological rhetoric to replicate the Chinese experience.

Yes. In a way we're more communist/socialist than china in some aspects. Power to the people. Hah! Just for votes.
Squandered our economic growth. Will have to start over again.