J20 Stealth Fighter

MiG-29SMT

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Abstract: The invention proposes a kind of variant invisible plane and its changing method and applications.The aircraft is designed by stealthy requirement, moves canard and two deflectable formula slab tails entirely using lifting body strake wing allosteric type aerodynamic arrangement scheme, including two deployable and collapsibles. Deployable and collapsible canard takes in fuselage when aircraft cruises or high speed is flat winged, to reduce radar cross section, improves stealth. Deflectable formula slab tail is then deflectable to different angle under different flight state, thus as V-arrangement tail, horizontal tail or abdomeinal fin.The transformation of the aircraft aerodynamic arrangement, including canard configuration, anury formula layout and three-surface configuration are realized with this.The switching of three kinds of aerodynamic arrangements can combine the advantage of this three, preferably meet the requirement under each flight profile, mission profile and state of flight to air maneuver and stealth.The variant aircraft can be used as a kind of high lift-drag ratio, high maneuverability, the good someone of new generation of stealth and unmanned air fighting platform, for executing air superiority combat duty.


regular J-20 configuration but with less wing trailing edge control surfaces such as flaps or ailerons
1603770305636.png


low aerodynamic drag, high stealth, this configuration reduces lift ahead of center of gravity making the aircraft nose heavy so at supercruise has lower yaw control and higher need to control the heavier nose
1603770336227.png


canards extended, increased lift and drag, lower stealth, heavier weight to actuators, reduced wing lift increased pitch up tendency reduced pitch control due to lower wing trailing edge controls, incrased yaw control at high AoA
1603770401559.png

ideal configuration for pitch control. not ideal for roll or yaw control

1603770432755.png

actuators add mass and weight
1603770475793.png


since engines are so close thrust vectoring control requieres more deflection than a fighter like widely space engines like those on Su-30 or Su-57.


Honestly this study shows solutions that add weight and compromise aerodynamics
 
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johnq

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Only brainwashed Chinese drones believe Chinese Communist Party propaganda that J-20 is stealthy. Anyone who knows anything about how stealth works and the current technological limitations of China knows that the J-20 does not have stealth even from the front because its radar/radome combination, canards and other control surfaces, canopy, and parts of the inlet can be tracked even by x band radar from the front. The J-20 also has a crappy radar based on downgraded Russian technology from the 90's. The Chinese had to buy the SU-35 to put its engine into the J-20 to make it fly, because Chinese engines are crap. The J-20 is more of a Chinese propaganda psy ops operation more than anything else.
The Chinese are great at lying and putting out BS propaganda designed to impress their own people as a means of control and BS propaganda as psy ops to impress the enemy. None of the Chinese toys work as advertised. Their fighter engines, avionics and aircraft technology is crap compared to modern western aircraft, and their pilot training sucks. The first female J-10 pilot died a horrible death after her J-10 engine failed and it crashed. Chinese engines and radars are such poor quality that Pakistan JF-17s are powered by Russian engines and use western radars and avionics. In any war, Chinese jets will crash left and right from engine failures, and Chinese radars will be disabled by Indian/Russian/western jammers.

Abhijit Iyer Mitra Explains Why Chinese Air Force Can’t Defeat Indian Air Force

Dissecting modern fighter Aircrafts | Abhijit Iyer Mitra & Sanjay Dixit
 

silentlurker

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Abstract: The invention proposes a kind of variant invisible plane and its changing method and applications.The aircraft is designed by stealthy requirement, moves canard and two deflectable formula slab tails entirely using lifting body strake wing allosteric type aerodynamic arrangement scheme, including two deployable and collapsibles. Deployable and collapsible canard takes in fuselage when aircraft cruises or high speed is flat winged, to reduce radar cross section, improves stealth. Deflectable formula slab tail is then deflectable to different angle under different flight state, thus as V-arrangement tail, horizontal tail or abdomeinal fin.The transformation of the aircraft aerodynamic arrangement, including canard configuration, anury formula layout and three-surface configuration are realized with this.The switching of three kinds of aerodynamic arrangements can combine the advantage of this three, preferably meet the requirement under each flight profile, mission profile and state of flight to air maneuver and stealth.The variant aircraft can be used as a kind of high lift-drag ratio, high maneuverability, the good someone of new generation of stealth and unmanned air fighting platform, for executing air superiority combat duty.


regular J-20 configuration but with less wing trailing edge control surfaces such as flaps or ailerons
View attachment 64481

low aerodynamic drag, high stealth, this configuration reduces lift ahead of center of gravity making the aircraft nose heavy so at supercruise has lower yaw control and higher need to control the heavier nose
View attachment 64482

canards extended, increased lift and drag, lower stealth, heavier weight to actuators, reduced wing lift increased pitch up tendency reduced pitch control due to lower wing trailing edge controls, incrased yaw control at high AoA
View attachment 64483
ideal configuration for pitch control. not ideal for roll or yaw control

View attachment 64484
actuators add mass and weight
View attachment 64485

since engines are so close thrust vectoring control requieres more deflection than a fighter like widely space engines like those on Su-30 or Su-57.


Honestly this study shows solutions that add weight and compromise aerodynamics
Holy crap, that is a lot of moving parts on a plane. Maintenance will be $$$
 

johnq

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J-20 has enough radar resonance hot spots, from cracks, joints, bulges, gaps, moving surfaces with edges and corners in front and elsewhere for it to light up like a Christmas tree in all bands. Then there is the lack of stealth in the radar/radome combination, inlets (and surrounding area), sides and rear which makes it totally visible to all bands of radar from the front, sides and back. This is why J-20 was tracked by SU-30MKI radar at long ranges. On top of all that, Chinese engine technology is so poor that they still use Russian engines on J-10s and JF-17s exported to Pakistan. Chinese had to buy SU-35 from Russia to use its engine to make J-20 fly. Plus Chinese radar technology is so poor that Pakistan uses western radars on all JF-17s bought from China. J-20 radar is copied from severely downgraded Russian radars with 90s radar technology. In any war it will be jammed by Russian/Indian/western jammers.
The J-20 is more of a Chinese propaganda psy ops operation more than anything else.
The Chinese are great at lying and putting out BS propaganda designed to impress their own people as a means of control and BS propaganda as psy ops to impress the enemy. None of the Chinese toys work as advertised. Their fighter engines, avionics and aircraft technology is crap compared to modern western aircraft, and their pilot training sucks. The first female J-10 pilot died a horrible death after her J-10 engine failed and it crashed. Chinese engines and radars are such poor quality that Pakistan JF-17s are powered by Russian engines and use western radars and avionics. In any war, Chinese jets will crash left and right from engine failures, and Chinese radars will be disabled by Indian/Russian/western jammers.

Abhijit Iyer Mitra Explains Why Chinese Air Force Can’t Defeat Indian Air Force
 

silentlurker

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johnq are you seriously a real person? Literally your last 3 posts have been the exact same content reordered over and over again. Yes, I have seen Abhijit Iyer Mitra's opinion already.
 

MiG-29SMT

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If it pisses off Chinese propagandists, it's well worth it. :rofl:
I do not think there are many guys like that here but it is better post more creative posts or more personalized to keeo a conversation personally i oppose chinese imperialism, and want India to fend off the genghis khan chinese imperialism, but it is better to be more creative do not you think so?
 

MiG-29SMT

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Holy crap, that is a lot of moving parts on a plane. Maintenance will be $$$
personally i think it is an unpractical concept, i agree to many moving parts and great fluctutions of lift and stability, i think the concept is too impractical to become a real aircraft
 

johnq

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Only brainwashed Chinese Communist Party PLA propagandists keep posting shiny pictures of J-20 as a part of Chinese psy ops designed to impress the Chinese population and others.
The reality is that the J-20 is more a barbie doll propaganda plane based on lies more than anything else. It is currently only flying because of engines taken from the SU-35 that China recently bought from Russia. All so it could be used as a propaganda tool.
Anyone with knowledge of basic resonance physics can tell that the canards and joints (as well as other control surfaces and joints) can be tracked even by x band radar from the front. J-20 does not have a way to mask its radar/radome from being tracked by enemy x-band radar either. Same goes for canopy, parts of inlets, sides and rear of the plane, which can also be tracked by x band radar. All bulges, cracks, joints, gaps, moving surfaces with edges and corners are visible to even x band radar. That is why it was tracked by SU-30MKI radar at long range. So I will continue to call the J-20 a BS propaganda project, which is all it is. Chinese toys like J-20 are made to look pretty for propaganda purposes, but don't actually work very well.
J-20 radar is copied from downgraded Russian radars from the 90's and can be jammed by Indian, Russian and western jammers.
Chinese engine technology is so poor that its engines only last 80 hours before needing to be changed. This is why China still uses Russian engines on J-10s and JF-17s exported to Pakistan. Plus Chinese radar technology is so poor that Pakistan uses western radars on all JF-17s bought from China.
None of the Chinese toys work as advertised. Their fighter engines, avionics and aircraft technology is crap compared to modern western aircraft, and their pilot training sucks. The first female J-10 pilot died a horrible death after her J-10 engine failed and it crashed. Chinese engines and radars are such poor quality that Pakistan JF-17s are powered by Russian engines and use western radars and avionics. In any war, Chinese jets will crash left and right from engine failures, and Chinese radars will be disabled by Indian/Russian/western jammers. :rofl:

Abhijit Iyer Mitra Explains Why Chinese Air Force Can’t Defeat Indian Air Force

Dissecting modern fighter Aircrafts | Abhijit Iyer Mitra & Sanjay Dixit
 

johnq

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Looks like Chinese propaganda psy ops graphics department is working overtime, posting pretty new propaganda images.
:rofl:
Funny how they get so many new photographs of J-20 every week in spite of it being a super duper classified program in China, or why Chinese propagandists must post these pictures every week in forums? Because it's a part of Chinese psy ops propaganda.
:rofl:
The J-20's only worth is psy ops for brainwashed Chinese people. The J-20 has a crappy radar copied from a severely downgraded Russian radar from 90s. The J-20 is not stealthy, despite what Chinese fanboys post. Chinese don't have a way to shield J-20 radar/radome or its IRST from being tracked by all bands of radar, even x band. The gaps between canards and body visible from the front are radar resonance hotspots, meaning they make J-20 visible to all bands of radar. The same holds true for other joints, gaps, bulges, cracks, corners and edges, moving surfaces and joints, bulges and corners in inlets, etc. The canopy, sides and rear of J-20 are also readily tracked by all bands of radar. This is why the J-20 was tracked by the Indian Air Force during exercises. Chinese excuses of radar reflectors are propaganda that China put out later to hide the fact that J-20 is visible to radar.

The J-20 currently relies on Russian engines that it had to pull out of imported SU-35s, just so it could fly for its propaganda psy ops photo session. J-20s radar is copied from severely downgraded Russian radar from 1990s. Why did China have to import SU-35s from Russia if the J-20 aircraft radar and engine have such great technology? :rofl:

These graphically enhanced pictures of J-20 are a part of Chinese propaganda psy ops designed to impress the Chinese population and others.:rofl:

The reality is that the J-20 is more a barbie doll propaganda plane based on lies more than anything else. It is currently only flying because of engines taken from the SU-35 that China recently bought from Russia. All so it could be used as a propaganda tool.
:rofl:
Anyone with knowledge of basic resonance physics can tell that the canards and joints (as well as other control surfaces and joints) can be tracked even by radar from the front. J-20 does not have a way to mask its radar/radome from being tracked by all bands of radar, even x band. Same goes for canopy, parts of inlets, sides and rear of the plane, which can also be tracked by all bands of radar. All bulges, cracks, joints, gaps, moving surfaces with edges and corners can be tracked by all bands of radar. The gap visible between canard and body from the front will be picked up by all bands of radar.

These are the reasons why it was tracked by SU-30MKI radar at long range. So I will continue to call the J-20 a BS propaganda project, which is all it is. Chinese toys like J-20 are made to look pretty for propaganda psy ops purposes, but don't actually work very well.

J-20 radar is copied from downgraded Russian radars from the 90's and can be jammed by Indian, Russian and western jammers.

Chinese engine technology is so poor that its engines only last 80 hours before needing to be changed. This is why China still uses Russian engines on J-10s and JF-17s exported to Pakistan. Plus Chinese radar technology is so poor that Pakistan uses western radars on all JF-17s bought from China.

None of the Chinese toys work as advertised. Their fighter engines, avionics and aircraft technology is crap, and their pilot training sucks. The first female J-10 pilot died a horrible death after her J-10 engine failed and it crashed. Chinese engines and radars are such poor quality that Pakistan JF-17s are powered by Russian engines and use western radars and avionics. In any war, Chinese jets will crash left and right from engine failures, and Chinese radars will be disabled by Indian/Russian/western jammers. :rofl:

The videos below talk about how crappy the J-20 and other Chinese Air Force really are, and how much of what China shows to the world is propaganda based on lies, much like North Korea and other authoritarian states.

Abhijit Iyer Mitra Explains Why Chinese Air Force Can’t Defeat Indian Air Force

Dissecting modern fighter Aircrafts | Abhijit Iyer Mitra & Sanjay Dixit
 

johnq

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India’s Rafale Vs China’s J-20: How The Two Fighters Stack Up Against Each Other

With the first of the Indian Air Force’s 36 Rafales landing in India today, amid its most serious standoff with China in over five decades, many observers have been wondering if the new fighter can take on the Chinese air force in the event of war — especially the J-20 fighter, China's most advanced fighter aircraft.
The two fighters are very different. While the French Rafale is a 4.5 generation fighter with a close-coupled canards/delta wing configuration, China touts the J-20 as a fifth generation platform with stealth capabilities.
And while this critical difference may suggest that the Chinese J-20 is superior to the Rafale, it may not really be the case.
Does J-20’s Stealth Offers It An Advantage Over Rafale?
It does, at least on paper.
But in the battlefield, this advantage depends on the efficiency of J-20’s stealth.
And over the past few years, serious questions have been raised by experts on the performance of its stealth features.
The efficiency of stealth features of a fighter depends on not only on the shape of the aircraft, but also its exhaust, cockpit shielding, flight characteristics, and, most importantly, its material composition.
“At best, it’s [China’s J-20] probably stealthy only from the front,” aviation analyst Richard Aboulafia, of the Teal Group told Wired in 2016.
“All-aspect stealth like that in the F-22 and F-35 minimizes the radar signature from all directions,” he added.
Additionally, the IAF has claimed that it has been able to track the fighter through its radars, raising questions about the effectiveness of J-20’s stealth characteristics.
While the development of J-20 does suggest that China is moving closer to a robust stealth fighter capability, and the future variants of the J-20 may have better stealth features, the current state of China’s stealth technology does not offer J-20 a significant advantage over the Rafales.
J-20’s Engine Adds To Its Many Problems
Given the high-thrust WS-15 turbofan — China’s purpose-built engine for its new generation stealth fighter — is still not ready for use, the People’s Liberation Army Air Force is making do with Russian AL-31F engines on its J-20s instead.
“Chinese engineers have been developing high-thrust turbofan WS-15 engines for the J-20, but that work has fallen behind schedule,” the South China Morning Post said in a report on J-20 fighters earlier this year.
“..it was equipped with inferior engines...when it first joined the air force in March last year because “critical problems” with its tailor-made WS-15 engine, exposed by an accident in 2015, had not been fixed..,” it said it another report.
This, experts say, not only limits the maneuverability of the fighter and its fuel efficiency but also its stealthiness at supersonic speeds.
The Rafale is fitted with M88 engine offering a high thrust-to-weight ratio with easy maintainability, high despatch reliability and lower operating costs.
Rafale Is Combat Proven
Rafales are not only in service with multiple air forces, it has a proven combat record and has evolved into a potent machine over two decades.
Between 2006 and 2011, the Rafales in service with the French Air Force and Navy were involved in combat missions in Afghanistan. In 2011, the France deployed its Rafales over Libya, where it destroyed Libyan air defences. The fighters have also been deployed for operations against the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria.
During these operations, the fighters have conducted precision strikes with HAMMERS and laser-guided bombs, deep strike with SCALP cruise missiles, and have also flown Intelligence, Surveillance, Tactical Acquisition and Reconnaissance missions.
Rafales have also conducted long-range missions in Mali during the French intervention in the African country.
This includes the longest raid in the history of the French Air Force, spending no less than 9 hours 35 minutes airborne.
China’s J-20, in comparison, entered service only in 2017.
Rafale Comes With Some Of The World’s Most Advanced Weapons
The weapons it packs, among other things, make the Rafale fighter the platform it has evolved into over the last two-and-a-half decades — most of all, MBDA’s Meteor beyond-visual-range air-to-air missile.
Instead of a traditional rocket motor, the Meteor missile uses GmbH’s solid fuel, variable flow, ducted rocket system, also called ramjet.
The Ramjet propulsion system gives Meteor the ability to throttle its engine (control engine power) during the various stages of its flight towards its target.
The ramjet-equipped Meteor has greater chances of hitting a target at long ranges than an air-to-air missile using a typical rocket motor.
This capability gives Meteor the largest ‘no-escape zone’ — the area within which the target can’t kinetically avoid being hit or the kill probability is very high.
Rafales also come with SCALP, a deep-strike air-to-ground cruise missile with a range of over 560 kilometres.
The missile can be fired at its target from stand-off ranges, while still flying within the safety of the Indian airspace in many cases. The missile’s low observability characteristics adds to its lethality.
French Air Force Rafales used the missile widely during its interventions in Libya and Syria. It was used by the Royal Air Force and the Italian Air Force in Libya.
HAMMER precision-guided air-to-ground munition, which the IAF is procuring for its Rafale fleet, comes in with an extended stand-off capacity.
The PLAAF does have weapons with similar capabilities.
China’s PL-15 air-to-air missile, on paper, has a ranger greater than the Meteor missile that will arm the Rafales. However, experts say that the missile may not be as effective at long ranges as its western counterparts such as Meteor.
Meteor has many advantages over the PL-15, including its ability to receive mid-course updates not only from the fighter it is fired from, but also from “third party” sources like other friendly fighters in the battle zone, airborne early warning and control aircraft, and land and sea-based radars.
In terms of weapons upgrades, Rafale will continue to benefit from the European ecosystem which it is part of and is likely to maintain its edge going forward.
Radar And Avionics
Both Rafale and J-20 use an Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) radar.
While little is known about the capabilities of China’s AESA radar, experts widely believe that China remains years behind the west on this front even as it has closed the technological gap over the last two decades.
With its “superior beam agility and its enormous computing power,” Rafale’s RBE2 radar, developed by Thales, is one of the most advanced in the world.
Rafales are also equipped with SPECTRA Electronic Warfare system for threat warning against against hostile radars, missiles and lasers.
The SPECTRA system, Dassault Aviation says, “carries out reliable long-range detection, identification and localisation of threats, allowing the pilot to instantly select the most effective defensive measures based on combinations of radar jamming, infrared or radar decoying and evasive manoeuvres.”
Clearly, the Rafale is a mature 4.5 generation fighter, which has some of the most advanced weapons in the world, access to the western ecosystem for future upgrades, and is already combat-proven.
In comparison, China’s J-20 is a new fifth generation stealth fighter in the early stages of induction into the PLAAF, without a purpose-built engine, and is far from reaching maturity required for combat readiness.


Looks like Chinese propaganda psy ops graphics department is working overtime, posting pretty new propaganda images.
:rofl:
Funny how they get so many new photographs of J-20 every week in spite of it being a super duper classified program in China, or why Chinese propagandists must post these pictures every week in forums? Because it's a part of Chinese psy ops propaganda.

:rofl:
The J-20's only worth is psy ops for brainwashed Chinese people. The J-20 has a crappy radar copied from a severely downgraded Russian radar from 90s. The J-20 is not stealthy, despite what Chinese fanboys post. Chinese don't have a way to shield J-20 radar/radome or its IRST from being tracked by all bands of radar, even x band. The gaps between canards and body visible from the front are radar resonance hotspots, meaning they make J-20 visible to all bands of radar. The same holds true for other joints, gaps, bulges, cracks, corners and edges, moving surfaces and joints, bulges and corners in inlets, etc. The canopy, sides and rear of J-20 are also readily tracked by all bands of radar. This is why the J-20 was tracked by the Indian Air Force during exercises. Chinese excuses of radar reflectors are propaganda that China put out later to hide the fact that J-20 is visible to radar.

The J-20 currently relies on Russian engines that it had to pull out of imported SU-35s, just so it could fly for its propaganda psy ops photo session. J-20s radar is copied from severely downgraded Russian radar from 1990s. Why did China have to import SU-35s from Russia if the J-20 aircraft radar and engine have such great technology? :rofl:

These graphically enhanced pictures of J-20 are a part of Chinese propaganda psy ops designed to impress the Chinese population and others.:rofl:

The reality is that the J-20 is more a barbie doll propaganda plane based on lies more than anything else. It is currently only flying because of engines taken from the SU-35 that China recently bought from Russia. All so it could be used as a propaganda tool.
:rofl:
Anyone with knowledge of basic resonance physics can tell that the canards and joints (as well as other control surfaces and joints) can be tracked even by radar from the front. J-20 does not have a way to mask its radar/radome from being tracked by all bands of radar, even x band. Same goes for canopy, parts of inlets, sides and rear of the plane, which can also be tracked by all bands of radar. All bulges, cracks, joints, gaps, moving surfaces with edges and corners can be tracked by all bands of radar. The gap visible between canard and body from the front will be picked up by all bands of radar.

These are the reasons why it was tracked by SU-30MKI radar at long range. So I will continue to call the J-20 a BS propaganda project, which is all it is. Chinese toys like J-20 are made to look pretty for propaganda psy ops purposes, but don't actually work very well.

J-20 radar is copied from downgraded Russian radars from the 90's and can be jammed by Indian, Russian and western jammers.

Chinese engine technology is so poor that its engines only last 80 hours before needing to be changed. This is why China still uses Russian engines on J-10s and JF-17s exported to Pakistan. Plus Chinese radar technology is so poor that Pakistan uses western radars on all JF-17s bought from China.

None of the Chinese toys work as advertised. Their fighter engines, avionics and aircraft technology is crap, and their pilot training sucks. The first female J-10 pilot died a horrible death after her J-10 engine failed and it crashed. Chinese had to reduce their pilots actual flying time and switch to simulator training because they were losing too many pilots and planes in crashes during flight training. Chinese engines and radars are such poor quality that Pakistan JF-17s are powered by Russian engines and use western radars and avionics. In any war, Chinese jets will crash left and right from engine failures, and Chinese radars will be disabled by Indian/Russian/western jammers. :rofl:

The videos below talk about how crappy the J-20 and other Chinese Air Force really are, and how much of what China shows to the world is propaganda based on lies, much like North Korea and other authoritarian states.


Abhijit Iyer Mitra Explains Why Chinese Air Force Can’t Defeat Indian Air Force
Dissecting modern fighter Aircrafts | Abhijit Iyer Mitra & Sanjay Dixit

Many people who believe Chinese propaganda about PLAAF shiny toys will be shocked if they found out how crappy Chinese engine reliability is in reality. Even their maintenance of Russian engines is so poor that their J-10s fall out of the sky, due to which they had to cut flight training and replace it with simulator training. It's easy to fly your fighters for their propaganda photo sessions, or post their pictures sitting on the airfield (although many of those are decoys); much harder when you have to fly several sorties in wartime, with your engines failing due to poor reliability, poor maintenance and cold weather. Chinese fighters will crash left and right when they are forced to fly several sorties for long durations in wartime.
 
Last edited:

MiG-29SMT

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India’s Rafale Vs China’s J-20: How The Two Fighters Stack Up Against Each Other

With the first of the Indian Air Force’s 36 Rafales landing in India today, amid its most serious standoff with China in over five decades, many observers have been wondering if the new fighter can take on the Chinese air force in the event of war — especially the J-20 fighter, China's most advanced fighter aircraft.
The two fighters are very different. While the French Rafale is a 4.5 generation fighter with a close-coupled canards/delta wing configuration, China touts the J-20 as a fifth generation platform with stealth capabilities.
And while this critical difference may suggest that the Chinese J-20 is superior to the Rafale, it may not really be the case.
Does J-20’s Stealth Offers It An Advantage Over Rafale?
It does, at least on paper.
But in the battlefield, this advantage depends on the efficiency of J-20’s stealth.
And over the past few years, serious questions have been raised by experts on the performance of its stealth features.
The efficiency of stealth features of a fighter depends on not only on the shape of the aircraft, but also its exhaust, cockpit shielding, flight characteristics, and, most importantly, its material composition.
“At best, it’s [China’s J-20] probably stealthy only from the front,” aviation analyst Richard Aboulafia, of the Teal Group told Wired in 2016.
“All-aspect stealth like that in the F-22 and F-35 minimizes the radar signature from all directions,” he added.
Additionally, the IAF has claimed that it has been able to track the fighter through its radars, raising questions about the effectiveness of J-20’s stealth characteristics.
While the development of J-20 does suggest that China is moving closer to a robust stealth fighter capability, and the future variants of the J-20 may have better stealth features, the current state of China’s stealth technology does not offer J-20 a significant advantage over the Rafales.
J-20’s Engine Adds To Its Many Problems
Given the high-thrust WS-15 turbofan — China’s purpose-built engine for its new generation stealth fighter — is still not ready for use, the People’s Liberation Army Air Force is making do with Russian AL-31F engines on its J-20s instead.
“Chinese engineers have been developing high-thrust turbofan WS-15 engines for the J-20, but that work has fallen behind schedule,” the South China Morning Post said in a report on J-20 fighters earlier this year.
“..it was equipped with inferior engines...when it first joined the air force in March last year because “critical problems” with its tailor-made WS-15 engine, exposed by an accident in 2015, had not been fixed..,” it said it another report.
This, experts say, not only limits the maneuverability of the fighter and its fuel efficiency but also its stealthiness at supersonic speeds.
The Rafale is fitted with M88 engine offering a high thrust-to-weight ratio with easy maintainability, high despatch reliability and lower operating costs.
Rafale Is Combat Proven
Rafales are not only in service with multiple air forces, it has a proven combat record and has evolved into a potent machine over two decades.
Between 2006 and 2011, the Rafales in service with the French Air Force and Navy were involved in combat missions in Afghanistan. In 2011, the France deployed its Rafales over Libya, where it destroyed Libyan air defences. The fighters have also been deployed for operations against the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria.
During these operations, the fighters have conducted precision strikes with HAMMERS and laser-guided bombs, deep strike with SCALP cruise missiles, and have also flown Intelligence, Surveillance, Tactical Acquisition and Reconnaissance missions.
Rafales have also conducted long-range missions in Mali during the French intervention in the African country.
This includes the longest raid in the history of the French Air Force, spending no less than 9 hours 35 minutes airborne.
China’s J-20, in comparison, entered service only in 2017.
Rafale Comes With Some Of The World’s Most Advanced Weapons
The weapons it packs, among other things, make the Rafale fighter the platform it has evolved into over the last two-and-a-half decades — most of all, MBDA’s Meteor beyond-visual-range air-to-air missile.
Instead of a traditional rocket motor, the Meteor missile uses GmbH’s solid fuel, variable flow, ducted rocket system, also called ramjet.
The Ramjet propulsion system gives Meteor the ability to throttle its engine (control engine power) during the various stages of its flight towards its target.
The ramjet-equipped Meteor has greater chances of hitting a target at long ranges than an air-to-air missile using a typical rocket motor.
This capability gives Meteor the largest ‘no-escape zone’ — the area within which the target can’t kinetically avoid being hit or the kill probability is very high.
Rafales also come with SCALP, a deep-strike air-to-ground cruise missile with a range of over 560 kilometres.
The missile can be fired at its target from stand-off ranges, while still flying within the safety of the Indian airspace in many cases. The missile’s low observability characteristics adds to its lethality.
French Air Force Rafales used the missile widely during its interventions in Libya and Syria. It was used by the Royal Air Force and the Italian Air Force in Libya.
HAMMER precision-guided air-to-ground munition, which the IAF is procuring for its Rafale fleet, comes in with an extended stand-off capacity.
The PLAAF does have weapons with similar capabilities.
China’s PL-15 air-to-air missile, on paper, has a ranger greater than the Meteor missile that will arm the Rafales. However, experts say that the missile may not be as effective at long ranges as its western counterparts such as Meteor.
Meteor has many advantages over the PL-15, including its ability to receive mid-course updates not only from the fighter it is fired from, but also from “third party” sources like other friendly fighters in the battle zone, airborne early warning and control aircraft, and land and sea-based radars.
In terms of weapons upgrades, Rafale will continue to benefit from the European ecosystem which it is part of and is likely to maintain its edge going forward.
Radar And Avionics
Both Rafale and J-20 use an Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) radar.
While little is known about the capabilities of China’s AESA radar, experts widely believe that China remains years behind the west on this front even as it has closed the technological gap over the last two decades.
With its “superior beam agility and its enormous computing power,” Rafale’s RBE2 radar, developed by Thales, is one of the most advanced in the world.
Rafales are also equipped with SPECTRA Electronic Warfare system for threat warning against against hostile radars, missiles and lasers.
The SPECTRA system, Dassault Aviation says, “carries out reliable long-range detection, identification and localisation of threats, allowing the pilot to instantly select the most effective defensive measures based on combinations of radar jamming, infrared or radar decoying and evasive manoeuvres.”
Clearly, the Rafale is a mature 4.5 generation fighter, which has some of the most advanced weapons in the world, access to the western ecosystem for future upgrades, and is already combat-proven.
In comparison, China’s J-20 is a new fifth generation stealth fighter in the early stages of induction into the PLAAF, without a purpose-built engine, and is far from reaching maturity required for combat readiness.
this is a make happy analisys, i am not pro-chinese, however you are just trolling.


J-20 we like it or not, is ahead of Rafale in stealth.

Rafale carries external stores, frontally Rafale without weapons has not a very big RCS, but once you equip it and arm it, it becomes similar to a F-18E.
1605563424252.png

It has excellent aerodynamics so i would say in agility and speed Rafale is probably ahead of the chinese machine by a good margin.


Now Rafale is to be honest a MiG-23MLD type aircraft versus F-15 type combat.

Rafale is not an F-22 type and on BVR it is a fact is less capable.


J-20 is not an F-22 but it is not so far front it.

So what is the reality, Su-30MKI is made in India, Rafale is not, Al-31 was made in India too, RD-33 was not.

The reality is Su-30MKI is now a bit old aircraft, Su-35 too.


India needs like Japan at least F-35 or Su-57 to fill the gap.

F-35 or Su-57 will not deliver the whole set of technologies until at least 2030s when Russia or the US are deploying or at least flying better aircraft, so India can not do much.

China has the largest Flanker fleet, a good fleet of J-10s, so India Chose Rafale to beat this fleet, because J-20 is not V/STOL so once you know where it is based you just destroy the airstrip and J-20 is not useful.


so do not lie to yourself, like Japan or Italy; India should buy a fighter like Su-57 or F-35 at least to upset the Chinese advantage like Japan did it
 

johnq

Regular Member
Joined
May 30, 2009
Messages
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1,995
It's funny how Chinese propagandists who post Chinese military propaganda pictures regularly think that they can hide by simply changing their country's flag on their id. :rofl:

The criminal Chinese Communist Party (CCP) government lies to the world on a regular basis, but we are supposed to believe their propaganda that J-20 is a stealth aircraft. Like the propagandists here have actually gone and checked themselves whether the J-20 works as advertised in CCP propaganda. :rofl:

Chinese engines break down after 80 hours of operation, which is why J-10 and JF-17 still use Russian engines. And the same goes for all operational Chinese fighters. The first female J-10 pilot died a horrible death when her J-10 engine failed and she crashed and burned. :rofl:

The criminal Chinese Communist Party government regularly lies about everything in its propaganda. They lied about there being no person to person transmission with Covid-19, which led to Covid-19 being spread around the world by sick Chinese people. It was a few Chinese doctors who disclosed the truth about Covid-19 even as the criminal Chinese Communist Party government punished them for it. Yet we are supposed to believe Chinese propaganda about the J-20 being a great stealthy fighter jet, even though we know that the Chinese Communist Party government lies and exaggerates regularly about its military prowess in Chinese government propaganda.

Here is proof that criminal Chinese Communist Party government lied about Covid-19 pandemic, just to show that Chinese Communist Party government cannot be trusted about anything with their propaganda claims:


From: https://www.nationalreview.com/the-morning-jolt/chinas-devastating-lies/
The Comprehensive Timeline of China’s COVID-19 Lies

On today’s menu: a day-by-day, month-by-month breakdown of China’s coronavirus coverup and the irreparable damage it has caused around the globe.

The Timeline of a Viral Ticking Time Bomb


The story of the coronavirus pandemic is still being written. But at this early date, we can see all kinds of moments where different decisions could have lessened the severity of the outbreak we are currently enduring. You have probably heard variations of: “Chinese authorities denied that the virus could be transferred from human to human until it was too late.” What you have probably not heard is how emphatically, loudly, and repeatedly the Chinese government insisted human transmission was impossible, long after doctors in Wuhan had concluded human transmission was ongoing — and how the World Health Organization assented to that conclusion, despite the suspicions of other outside health experts.

Clearly, the U.S. government’s response to this threat was not nearly robust enough, and not enacted anywhere near quickly enough. Most European governments weren’t prepared either. Few governments around the world were or are prepared for the scale of the danger. We can only wonder whether accurate and timely information from China would have altered the way the U.S. government, the American people, and the world prepared for the oncoming danger of infection.

Some point in late 2019: The coronavirus jumps from some animal species to a human being. The best guess at this point is that it happened at a Chinese “wet market.”

December 6: According to a study in The Lancet, the symptom onset date of the first patient identified was “Dec 1, 2019 . . . 5 days after illness onset, his wife, a 53-year-old woman who had no known history of exposure to the market, also presented with pneumonia and was hospitalized in the isolation ward.” In other words, as early as the second week of December, Wuhan doctors were finding cases that indicated the virus was spreading from one human to another.

December 21: Wuhan doctors begin to notice a “cluster of pneumonia cases with an unknown cause.

December 25:
Chinese medical staff in two hospitals in Wuhan are suspected of contracting viral pneumonia and are quarantined. This is additional strong evidence of human-to-human transmission.

Sometime in “Late December”: Wuhan hospitals notice “an exponential increase” in the number of cases that cannot be linked back to the Huanan Seafood Wholesale Market, according to the New England Journal of Medicine.

December 30: Dr. Li Wenliang sent a message to a group of other doctors warning them about a possible outbreak of an illness that resembled severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS), urging them to take protective measures against infection.

December 31:
The Wuhan Municipal Health Commission declares, “The investigation so far has not found any obvious human-to-human transmission and no medical staff infection.” This is the opposite of the belief of the doctors working on patients in Wuhan, and two doctors were already suspected of contracting the virus.

Three weeks after doctors first started noticing the cases, China contacts the World Health Organization.

Tao Lina, a public-health expert and former official with Shanghai’s center for disease control and prevention, tells the South China Morning Post, “I think we are [now] quite capable of killing it in the beginning phase, given China’s disease control system, emergency handling capacity and clinical medicine support.”

January 1: The Wuhan Public Security Bureau issued summons to Dr. Li Wenliang, accusing him of “spreading rumors.” Two days later, at a police station, Dr. Li signed a statement acknowledging his “misdemeanor” and promising not to commit further “unlawful acts.” Seven other people are arrested on similar charges and their fate is unknown.

Also that day, “after several batches of genome sequence results had been returned to hospitals and submitted to health authorities, an employee of one genomics company received a phone call from an official at the Hubei Provincial Health Commission, ordering the company to stop testing samples from Wuhan related to the new disease and destroy all existing samples.”

According to a New York Times study of cellphone data from China, 175,000 people leave Wuhan that day. According to global travel data research firm OAG, 21 countries have direct flights to Wuhan. In the first quarter of 2019 for comparison, 13,267 air passengers traveled from Wuhan, China, to destinations in the United States, or about 4,422 per month. The U.S. government would not bar foreign nationals who had traveled to China from entering the country for another month.

January 2: One study of patients in Wuhan can only connect 27 of 41 infected patients to exposure to the Huanan seafood market — indicating human-to-human transmission away from the market. A report written later that month concludes, “evidence so far indicates human transmission for 2019-nCoV. We are concerned that 2019-nCoV could have acquired the ability for efficient human transmission.”

Also on this day, the Wuhan Institute of Virology completed mapped the genome of the virus. The Chinese government would not announce that breakthrough for another week.

January 3: The Chinese government continued efforts to suppress all information about the virus: “China’s National Health Commission, the nation’s top health authority, ordered institutions not to publish any information related to the unknown disease, and ordered labs to transfer any samples they had to designated testing institutions, or to destroy them.”


Roughly one month after the first cases in Wuhan, the United States government is notified. Robert Redfield, the director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, gets initial reports about a new coronavirus from Chinese colleagues, according to Health and Human Services secretary Alex Azar. Azar, who helped manage the response at HHS to earlier SARS and anthrax outbreaks, told his chief of staff to make sure the National Security Council was informed.

Also on this day, the Wuhan Municipal Health Commission released another statement, repeating, “As of now, preliminary investigations have shown no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission and no medical staff infections.

January 4: While Chinese authorities continued to insist that the virus could not spread from one person to another, doctors outside that country weren’t so convinced. The head of the University of Hong Kong’s Centre for Infection, Ho Pak-leung, warned that “the city should implement the strictest possible monitoring system for a mystery new viral pneumonia that has infected dozens of people on the mainland, as it is highly possible that the illness is spreading from human to human.”

January 5: The Wuhan Municipal Health Commission put out a statement with updated numbers of cases but repeated, “preliminary investigations have shown no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission and no medical staff infections.

January 6:
The New York Times publishes its first report about the virus, declaring that “59 people in the central city of Wuhan have been sickened by a pneumonia-like illness.” That first report included these comments:



Wang Linfa, an expert on emerging infectious diseases at the Duke-NUS Medical School in Singapore, said he was frustrated that scientists in China were not allowed to speak to him about the outbreak. Dr. Wang said, however, that he thought the virus was likely not spreading from humans to humans because health workers had not contracted the disease. “We should not go into panic mode,” he said.
Don’t get too mad at Wang Linfa; he was making that assessment based upon the inaccurate information Chinese government was telling the world.

Also that day, the CDC “issued a level 1 travel watch — the lowest of its three levels — for China’s outbreak. It said the cause and the transmission mode aren’t yet known, and it advised travelers to Wuhan to avoid living or dead animals, animal markets, and contact with sick people.”

Also that day, the CDC offered to send a team to China to assist with the investigation. The Chinese government declined, but a WHO team that included two Americans would visit February 16.

January 8: Chinese medical authorities claim to have identified the virus. Those authorities claim and Western media continue to repeat, “there is no evidence that the new virus is readily spread by humans, which would make it particularly dangerous, and it has not been tied to any deaths.”

The official statement from the World Health Organization declares, “Preliminary identification of a novel virus in a short period of time is a notable achievement and demonstrates China’s increased capacity to manage new outbreaks . . . WHO does not recommend any specific measures for travelers. WHO advises against the application of any travel or trade restrictions on China based on the information currently available.”

January 10: After unknowingly treating a patient with the Wuhan coronavirus, Dr. Li Wenliang started coughing and developed a fever. He was hospitalized on January 12. In the following days, Li’s condition deteriorated so badly that he was admitted to the intensive care unit and given oxygen support.

The New York Times quotes the Wuhan City Health Commission’s declaration that “there is no evidence the virus can spread among humans.” Chinese doctors continued to find transmission among family members, contradicting the official statements from the city health commission.

January 11: The Wuhan City Health Commission issues an update declaring, “All 739 close contacts, including 419 medical staff, have undergone medical observation and no related cases have been found . . . No new cases have been detected since January 3, 2020. At present, no medical staff infections have been found, and no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission has been found.” They issue a Q&A sheet later that day reemphasizing that “most of the unexplained viral pneumonia cases in Wuhan this time have a history of exposure to the South China seafood market. No clear evidence of human-to-human transmission has been found.”


Also on this day, political leaders in Hubei province, which includes Wuhan, began their regional meeting. The coronavirus was not mentioned over four days of meetings.

January 13: Authorities in Thailand detected the virus in a 61-year-old Chinese woman who was visiting from Wuhan, the first case outside of China. “Thailand’s Ministry of Public Health, said the woman had not visited the Wuhan seafood market, and had come down with a fever on Jan. 5. However, the doctor said, the woman had visited a different, smaller market in Wuhan, in which live and freshly slaughtered animals were also sold.”

January 14: Wuhan city health authorities release another statement declaring, “Among the close contacts, no related cases were found.” Wuhan doctors have known this was false since early December, from the first victim and his wife, who did not visit the market.

The World Health Organization echoes China’s assessment: “Preliminary investigations conducted by the Chinese authorities have found no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission of the novel coronavirus (2019-nCoV) identified in Wuhan, China.

This is five or six weeks after the first evidence of human-to-human transmission in Wuhan.

January 15:
Japan reported its first case of coronavirus. Japan’s Health Ministry said the patient had not visited any seafood markets in China, adding that “it is possible that the patient had close contact with an unknown patient with lung inflammation while in China.”

The Wuhan Municipal Health Commission begins to change its statements, now declaring, “Existing survey results show that clear human-to-human evidence has not been found, and the possibility of limited human-to-human transmission cannot be ruled out, but the risk of continued human-to-human transmission is low.” Recall Wuhan hospitals concluded human-to-human transmission was occurring three weeks earlier. A statement the next day backtracks on the possibility of human transmission, saying only, “Among the close contacts, no related cases were found.

January 17:
The CDC and the Department of Homeland Security’s Customs and Border Protection announce that travelers from Wuhan to the United States will undergo entry screening for symptoms associated with 2019-nCoV at three U.S. airports that receive most of the travelers from Wuhan, China: San Francisco, New York (JFK), and Los Angeles airports.

The Wuhan Municipal Health Commission’s daily update declares, “A total of 763 close contacts have been tracked, 665 medical observations have been lifted, and 98 people are still receiving medical observations. Among the close contacts, no related cases were found.”

January 18: HHS Secretary Azar has his first discussion about the virus with President Trump. Unnamed “senior administration officials” told the Washington Post that “the president interjected to ask about vaping and when flavored vaping products would be back on the market.

Despite the fact that Wuhan doctors know the virus is contagious, city authorities allow 40,000 families to gather and share home-cooked food in a Lunar New Year banquet.

January 19: The Chinese National Health Commission declares the virus “still preventable and controllable.” The World Health Organization updates its statement, declaring, “Not enough is known to draw definitive conclusions about how it is transmitted, the clinical features of the disease, the extent to which it has spread, or its source, which remains unknown.”

January 20: The Wuhan Municipal Health Commission declares for the last time in its daily bulletin, “no related cases were found among the close contacts.


That day, the head of China’s national health commission team investigating the outbreak, confirmed that two cases of infection in China’s Guangdong province had been caused by human-to-human transmission and medical staff had been infected.

Also on this date, the Wuhan Evening News newspaper, the largest newspaper in the city, mentions the virus on the front page for the first time since January 5.

January 21: The CDC announced the first U.S. case of a the coronavirus in a Snohomish County, Wash., resident who returning from China six days earlier.

By this point, millions of people have left Wuhan, carrying the virus all around China and into other countries.

January 22
: WHO director-general Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus continued to praise China’s handling of the outbreak. “I was very impressed by the detail and depth of China’s presentation. I also appreciate the cooperation of China’s Minister of Health, who I have spoken with directly during the last few days and weeks. His leadership and the intervention of President Xi and Premier Li have been invaluable, and all the measures they have taken to respond to the outbreak.”

In the preceding days, a WHO delegation conducted a field visit to Wuhan. They concluded, “deployment of the new test kit nationally suggests that human-to-human transmission is taking place in Wuhan.” The delegation reports, “their counterparts agreed close attention should be paid to hand and respiratory hygiene, food safety and avoiding mass gatherings where possible.”

At a meeting of the WHO Emergency Committee, panel members express “divergent views on whether this event constitutes a “Public Health Emergency of International Concern’ or not. At that time, the advice was that the event did not constitute a PHEIC.”


President Trump, in an interview with CNBC at the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland, declared, “We have it totally under control. It’s one person coming in from China. We have it under control. It’s going to be just fine.

January 23: Chinese authorities announce their first steps for a quarantine of Wuhan. By this point, millions have already visited the city and left it during the Lunar New Year celebrations. Singapore and Vietnam report their first cases, and by now an unknown but significant number of Chinese citizens have traveled abroad as asymptomatic, oblivious carriers.

January 24: Vietnam reports person-to-person transmission, and Japan, South Korea, and the U.S report their second cases. The second case is in Chicago. Within two days, new cases are reported in Los Angeles, Orange County, and Arizona. The virus is in now in several locations in the United States, and the odds of preventing an outbreak are dwindling to zero.

On February 1, Dr. Li Wenliang tested positive for coronavirus. He died from it six days later.


From: https://changingtimes.media/2020/10/12/sars-cov-2-lab-origin-hypothesis-gains-traction/
SARS-CoV-2: lab-origin hypothesis gains traction

“On January 21, President Xi Jinping asked the director-general of the WHO, Dr Tedros Adhanom, to withhold information about person-to-person transmission of the virus, as well as pandemic classification. Likely as a consequence, pandemic classification of the virus was delayed four to six weeks.”

The Chinese propagandists on this forum and elsewhere just don't get it. They are the ones that enable the criminal Chinese Communist Party government leadership that covered up the Covid-19 outbreak by accusing Dr. Li Wenliang and others of criminal activities, while lying that human-to-human transmission was not taking place. The Chinese Communist Party government leadership covered it up for at least six weeks and probably much longer, while allowing international travel, allowing the Covid-19 virus to spread everywhere. Xi Jinping and Chinese Communist Party government leadership is personally responsible for not only the deaths of Chinese people from Covid-19, but also millions of deaths worldwide due to spreading of Covid-19. Xi Jinping and Chinese Communist Party government leadership caused Chinese people's deaths by covering up that Covid-19 human-to-human transmission was taking place in order to spread the Covid-19 virus worldwide, thus using it as a bio-weapon.


And then the propagandists are bothered when the obvious truth about J-20 not being stealthy is disclosed. Anyone with knowledge of basic resonance physics can tell that the canards and joints (as well as other control surfaces and joints) can be tracked even by radar from the front. J-20 does not have a way to mask its radar/radome from being tracked by all bands of radar, even x band. Same goes for canopy, parts of inlets, sides and rear of the plane, which can also be tracked by all bands of radar. All bulges, cracks, joints, gaps, moving surfaces with edges and corners can be tracked by all bands of radar. The gap visible between canard and body from the front will be picked up by all bands of radar.

The Chinese propaganda psy ops graphics department is working overtime, posting pretty new propaganda images.
:rofl:
Funny how they get so many new photographs of J-20 every week in spite of it being a super duper classified program in China, or why Chinese propagandists must post these pictures every week in forums? Because it's a part of Chinese psy ops propaganda.
:rofl:
The J-20's only worth is psy ops for brainwashed Chinese people. The J-20 has a crappy radar copied from a severely downgraded Russian radar from 90s. The J-20 is not stealthy, despite what Chinese fanboys post. Chinese don't have a way to shield J-20 radar/radome or its IRST from being tracked by all bands of radar, even x band. The gaps between canards and body visible from the front are radar resonance hotspots, meaning they make J-20 visible to all bands of radar. The same holds true for other joints, gaps, bulges, cracks, corners and edges, moving surfaces and joints, bulges and corners in inlets, etc. The canopy, sides and rear of J-20 are also readily tracked by all bands of radar. This is why the J-20 was tracked by the Indian Air Force during exercises. Chinese excuses of radar reflectors are propaganda that China put out later to hide the fact that J-20 is visible to radar.

The J-20 currently relies on Russian engines that it had to pull out of imported SU-35s, just so it could fly for its propaganda psy ops photo session. J-20s radar is copied from severely downgraded Russian radar from 1990s. Why did China have to import SU-35s from Russia if the J-20 aircraft radar and engine have such great technology? :rofl:

These graphically enhanced pictures of J-20 are a part of Chinese propaganda psy ops designed to impress the Chinese population and others.:rofl:

The reality is that the J-20 is more a barbie doll propaganda plane based on lies more than anything else. It is currently only flying because of Russian engines taken from the SU-35 that China recently bought from Russia. All so it could be used as a propaganda tool.
:rofl:

These are the reasons why it was tracked by SU-30MKI radar at long range. So I will continue to call the J-20 a BS propaganda project, which is all it is. Chinese toys like J-20 are made to look pretty for propaganda psy ops purposes, but don't actually work very well.

J-20 radar is copied from downgraded Russian radars from the 90's and can be jammed by Indian, Russian and western jammers.

Chinese engine technology is so poor that its engines only last 80 hours before needing to be changed. This is why China still uses Russian engines on J-10s and JF-17s exported to Pakistan. Plus Chinese radar technology is so poor that Pakistan uses western radars on all JF-17s bought from China.

None of the Chinese toys work as advertised. Their fighter engines, avionics and aircraft technology is crap, and their pilot training sucks. The first female J-10 pilot died a horrible death after her J-10 engine failed and it crashed. Chinese had to reduce their pilots actual flying time and switch to simulator training because they were losing too many pilots and planes in crashes during flight training. Chinese engines and radars are such poor quality that Pakistan JF-17s are powered by Russian engines and use western radars and avionics. In any war, Chinese jets will crash left and right from engine failures, and Chinese radars will be disabled by Indian/Russian/western jammers. :rofl:

The videos below talk about how crappy the J-20 and other Chinese Air Force really are, and how much of what China shows to the world is propaganda based on lies, much like North Korea and other authoritarian states.


Abhijit Iyer Mitra Explains Why Chinese Air Force Can’t Defeat Indian Air Force
Dissecting modern fighter Aircrafts | Abhijit Iyer Mitra & Sanjay Dixit

Many people who believe Chinese propaganda about PLAAF shiny toys will be shocked if they found out how crappy Chinese engine reliability is in reality. Even their maintenance of Russian engines is so poor that their J-10s fall out of the sky, due to which they had to cut flight training and replace it with simulator training. It's easy to fly your fighters for their propaganda photo sessions, or post their pictures sitting on the airfield (although many of those are decoys); much harder when you have to fly several sorties in wartime, with your engines failing due to poor reliability, poor maintenance and cold weather. Chinese fighters will crash left and right when they are forced to fly several sorties for long durations in wartime.
 

MiG-29SMT

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2020
Messages
487
Likes
743
Country flag
It's funny how Chinese propagandists who post Chinese military propaganda pictures regularly think that they can hide by simply changing their country's flag on their id. :rofl:

The criminal Chinese Communist Party (CCP) government lies to the world on a regular basis, but we are supposed to believe their propaganda that J-20 is a stealth aircraft. Like the propagandists here have actually gone and checked themselves whether the J-20 works as advertised in CCP propaganda. :rofl:

Chinese engines break down after 80 hours of operation, which is why J-10 and JF-17 still use Russian engines. And the same goes for all operational Chinese fighters. The first female J-10 pilot died a horrible death when her J-10 engine failed and she crashed and burned. :rofl:

The criminal Chinese Communist Party government regularly lies about everything in its propaganda. They lied about there being no person to person transmission with Covid-19, which led to Covid-19 being spread around the world by sick Chinese people. It was a few Chinese doctors who disclosed the truth about Covid-19 even as the criminal Chinese Communist Party government punished them for it. Yet we are supposed to believe Chinese propaganda about the J-20 being a great stealthy fighter jet, even though we know that the Chinese Communist Party government lies and exaggerates regularly about its military prowess in Chinese government propaganda.

Here is proof that criminal Chinese Communist Party government lied about Covid-19 pandemic, just to show that Chinese Communist Party government cannot be trusted about anything with their propaganda claims:


From: https://www.nationalreview.com/the-morning-jolt/chinas-devastating-lies/
The Comprehensive Timeline of China’s COVID-19 Lies

On today’s menu: a day-by-day, month-by-month breakdown of China’s coronavirus coverup and the irreparable damage it has caused around the globe.

The Timeline of a Viral Ticking Time Bomb


The story of the coronavirus pandemic is still being written. But at this early date, we can see all kinds of moments where different decisions could have lessened the severity of the outbreak we are currently enduring. You have probably heard variations of: “Chinese authorities denied that the virus could be transferred from human to human until it was too late.” What you have probably not heard is how emphatically, loudly, and repeatedly the Chinese government insisted human transmission was impossible, long after doctors in Wuhan had concluded human transmission was ongoing — and how the World Health Organization assented to that conclusion, despite the suspicions of other outside health experts.

Clearly, the U.S. government’s response to this threat was not nearly robust enough, and not enacted anywhere near quickly enough. Most European governments weren’t prepared either. Few governments around the world were or are prepared for the scale of the danger. We can only wonder whether accurate and timely information from China would have altered the way the U.S. government, the American people, and the world prepared for the oncoming danger of infection.

Some point in late 2019: The coronavirus jumps from some animal species to a human being. The best guess at this point is that it happened at a Chinese “wet market.”

December 6: According to a study in The Lancet, the symptom onset date of the first patient identified was “Dec 1, 2019 . . . 5 days after illness onset, his wife, a 53-year-old woman who had no known history of exposure to the market, also presented with pneumonia and was hospitalized in the isolation ward.” In other words, as early as the second week of December, Wuhan doctors were finding cases that indicated the virus was spreading from one human to another.

December 21: Wuhan doctors begin to notice a “cluster of pneumonia cases with an unknown cause.

December 25:
Chinese medical staff in two hospitals in Wuhan are suspected of contracting viral pneumonia and are quarantined. This is additional strong evidence of human-to-human transmission.

Sometime in “Late December”: Wuhan hospitals notice “an exponential increase” in the number of cases that cannot be linked back to the Huanan Seafood Wholesale Market, according to the New England Journal of Medicine.

December 30: Dr. Li Wenliang sent a message to a group of other doctors warning them about a possible outbreak of an illness that resembled severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS), urging them to take protective measures against infection.

December 31:
The Wuhan Municipal Health Commission declares, “The investigation so far has not found any obvious human-to-human transmission and no medical staff infection.” This is the opposite of the belief of the doctors working on patients in Wuhan, and two doctors were already suspected of contracting the virus.

Three weeks after doctors first started noticing the cases, China contacts the World Health Organization.

Tao Lina, a public-health expert and former official with Shanghai’s center for disease control and prevention, tells the South China Morning Post, “I think we are [now] quite capable of killing it in the beginning phase, given China’s disease control system, emergency handling capacity and clinical medicine support.”

January 1: The Wuhan Public Security Bureau issued summons to Dr. Li Wenliang, accusing him of “spreading rumors.” Two days later, at a police station, Dr. Li signed a statement acknowledging his “misdemeanor” and promising not to commit further “unlawful acts.” Seven other people are arrested on similar charges and their fate is unknown.

Also that day, “after several batches of genome sequence results had been returned to hospitals and submitted to health authorities, an employee of one genomics company received a phone call from an official at the Hubei Provincial Health Commission, ordering the company to stop testing samples from Wuhan related to the new disease and destroy all existing samples.”

According to a New York Times study of cellphone data from China, 175,000 people leave Wuhan that day. According to global travel data research firm OAG, 21 countries have direct flights to Wuhan. In the first quarter of 2019 for comparison, 13,267 air passengers traveled from Wuhan, China, to destinations in the United States, or about 4,422 per month. The U.S. government would not bar foreign nationals who had traveled to China from entering the country for another month.

January 2: One study of patients in Wuhan can only connect 27 of 41 infected patients to exposure to the Huanan seafood market — indicating human-to-human transmission away from the market. A report written later that month concludes, “evidence so far indicates human transmission for 2019-nCoV. We are concerned that 2019-nCoV could have acquired the ability for efficient human transmission.”

Also on this day, the Wuhan Institute of Virology completed mapped the genome of the virus. The Chinese government would not announce that breakthrough for another week.

January 3: The Chinese government continued efforts to suppress all information about the virus: “China’s National Health Commission, the nation’s top health authority, ordered institutions not to publish any information related to the unknown disease, and ordered labs to transfer any samples they had to designated testing institutions, or to destroy them.”


Roughly one month after the first cases in Wuhan, the United States government is notified. Robert Redfield, the director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, gets initial reports about a new coronavirus from Chinese colleagues, according to Health and Human Services secretary Alex Azar. Azar, who helped manage the response at HHS to earlier SARS and anthrax outbreaks, told his chief of staff to make sure the National Security Council was informed.

Also on this day, the Wuhan Municipal Health Commission released another statement, repeating, “As of now, preliminary investigations have shown no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission and no medical staff infections.

January 4: While Chinese authorities continued to insist that the virus could not spread from one person to another, doctors outside that country weren’t so convinced. The head of the University of Hong Kong’s Centre for Infection, Ho Pak-leung, warned that “the city should implement the strictest possible monitoring system for a mystery new viral pneumonia that has infected dozens of people on the mainland, as it is highly possible that the illness is spreading from human to human.”

January 5: The Wuhan Municipal Health Commission put out a statement with updated numbers of cases but repeated, “preliminary investigations have shown no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission and no medical staff infections.

January 6:
The New York Times publishes its first report about the virus, declaring that “59 people in the central city of Wuhan have been sickened by a pneumonia-like illness.” That first report included these comments:




Don’t get too mad at Wang Linfa; he was making that assessment based upon the inaccurate information Chinese government was telling the world.

Also that day, the CDC “issued a level 1 travel watch — the lowest of its three levels — for China’s outbreak. It said the cause and the transmission mode aren’t yet known, and it advised travelers to Wuhan to avoid living or dead animals, animal markets, and contact with sick people.”

Also that day, the CDC offered to send a team to China to assist with the investigation. The Chinese government declined, but a WHO team that included two Americans would visit February 16.

January 8: Chinese medical authorities claim to have identified the virus. Those authorities claim and Western media continue to repeat, “there is no evidence that the new virus is readily spread by humans, which would make it particularly dangerous, and it has not been tied to any deaths.”

The official statement from the World Health Organization declares, “Preliminary identification of a novel virus in a short period of time is a notable achievement and demonstrates China’s increased capacity to manage new outbreaks . . . WHO does not recommend any specific measures for travelers. WHO advises against the application of any travel or trade restrictions on China based on the information currently available.”

January 10: After unknowingly treating a patient with the Wuhan coronavirus, Dr. Li Wenliang started coughing and developed a fever. He was hospitalized on January 12. In the following days, Li’s condition deteriorated so badly that he was admitted to the intensive care unit and given oxygen support.

The New York Times quotes the Wuhan City Health Commission’s declaration that “there is no evidence the virus can spread among humans.” Chinese doctors continued to find transmission among family members, contradicting the official statements from the city health commission.

January 11: The Wuhan City Health Commission issues an update declaring, “All 739 close contacts, including 419 medical staff, have undergone medical observation and no related cases have been found . . . No new cases have been detected since January 3, 2020. At present, no medical staff infections have been found, and no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission has been found.” They issue a Q&A sheet later that day reemphasizing that “most of the unexplained viral pneumonia cases in Wuhan this time have a history of exposure to the South China seafood market. No clear evidence of human-to-human transmission has been found.”


Also on this day, political leaders in Hubei province, which includes Wuhan, began their regional meeting. The coronavirus was not mentioned over four days of meetings.

January 13: Authorities in Thailand detected the virus in a 61-year-old Chinese woman who was visiting from Wuhan, the first case outside of China. “Thailand’s Ministry of Public Health, said the woman had not visited the Wuhan seafood market, and had come down with a fever on Jan. 5. However, the doctor said, the woman had visited a different, smaller market in Wuhan, in which live and freshly slaughtered animals were also sold.”

January 14: Wuhan city health authorities release another statement declaring, “Among the close contacts, no related cases were found.” Wuhan doctors have known this was false since early December, from the first victim and his wife, who did not visit the market.

The World Health Organization echoes China’s assessment: “Preliminary investigations conducted by the Chinese authorities have found no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission of the novel coronavirus (2019-nCoV) identified in Wuhan, China.

This is five or six weeks after the first evidence of human-to-human transmission in Wuhan.

January 15:
Japan reported its first case of coronavirus. Japan’s Health Ministry said the patient had not visited any seafood markets in China, adding that “it is possible that the patient had close contact with an unknown patient with lung inflammation while in China.”

The Wuhan Municipal Health Commission begins to change its statements, now declaring, “Existing survey results show that clear human-to-human evidence has not been found, and the possibility of limited human-to-human transmission cannot be ruled out, but the risk of continued human-to-human transmission is low.” Recall Wuhan hospitals concluded human-to-human transmission was occurring three weeks earlier. A statement the next day backtracks on the possibility of human transmission, saying only, “Among the close contacts, no related cases were found.

January 17:
The CDC and the Department of Homeland Security’s Customs and Border Protection announce that travelers from Wuhan to the United States will undergo entry screening for symptoms associated with 2019-nCoV at three U.S. airports that receive most of the travelers from Wuhan, China: San Francisco, New York (JFK), and Los Angeles airports.

The Wuhan Municipal Health Commission’s daily update declares, “A total of 763 close contacts have been tracked, 665 medical observations have been lifted, and 98 people are still receiving medical observations. Among the close contacts, no related cases were found.”

January 18: HHS Secretary Azar has his first discussion about the virus with President Trump. Unnamed “senior administration officials” told the Washington Post that “the president interjected to ask about vaping and when flavored vaping products would be back on the market.

Despite the fact that Wuhan doctors know the virus is contagious, city authorities allow 40,000 families to gather and share home-cooked food in a Lunar New Year banquet.

January 19: The Chinese National Health Commission declares the virus “still preventable and controllable.” The World Health Organization updates its statement, declaring, “Not enough is known to draw definitive conclusions about how it is transmitted, the clinical features of the disease, the extent to which it has spread, or its source, which remains unknown.”

January 20: The Wuhan Municipal Health Commission declares for the last time in its daily bulletin, “no related cases were found among the close contacts.


That day, the head of China’s national health commission team investigating the outbreak, confirmed that two cases of infection in China’s Guangdong province had been caused by human-to-human transmission and medical staff had been infected.

Also on this date, the Wuhan Evening News newspaper, the largest newspaper in the city, mentions the virus on the front page for the first time since January 5.

January 21: The CDC announced the first U.S. case of a the coronavirus in a Snohomish County, Wash., resident who returning from China six days earlier.

By this point, millions of people have left Wuhan, carrying the virus all around China and into other countries.

January 22
: WHO director-general Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus continued to praise China’s handling of the outbreak. “I was very impressed by the detail and depth of China’s presentation. I also appreciate the cooperation of China’s Minister of Health, who I have spoken with directly during the last few days and weeks. His leadership and the intervention of President Xi and Premier Li have been invaluable, and all the measures they have taken to respond to the outbreak.”

In the preceding days, a WHO delegation conducted a field visit to Wuhan. They concluded, “deployment of the new test kit nationally suggests that human-to-human transmission is taking place in Wuhan.” The delegation reports, “their counterparts agreed close attention should be paid to hand and respiratory hygiene, food safety and avoiding mass gatherings where possible.”

At a meeting of the WHO Emergency Committee, panel members express “divergent views on whether this event constitutes a “Public Health Emergency of International Concern’ or not. At that time, the advice was that the event did not constitute a PHEIC.”


President Trump, in an interview with CNBC at the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland, declared, “We have it totally under control. It’s one person coming in from China. We have it under control. It’s going to be just fine.

January 23: Chinese authorities announce their first steps for a quarantine of Wuhan. By this point, millions have already visited the city and left it during the Lunar New Year celebrations. Singapore and Vietnam report their first cases, and by now an unknown but significant number of Chinese citizens have traveled abroad as asymptomatic, oblivious carriers.

January 24: Vietnam reports person-to-person transmission, and Japan, South Korea, and the U.S report their second cases. The second case is in Chicago. Within two days, new cases are reported in Los Angeles, Orange County, and Arizona. The virus is in now in several locations in the United States, and the odds of preventing an outbreak are dwindling to zero.

On February 1, Dr. Li Wenliang tested positive for coronavirus. He died from it six days later.


From: https://changingtimes.media/2020/10/12/sars-cov-2-lab-origin-hypothesis-gains-traction/
SARS-CoV-2: lab-origin hypothesis gains traction

“On January 21, President Xi Jinping asked the director-general of the WHO, Dr Tedros Adhanom, to withhold information about person-to-person transmission of the virus, as well as pandemic classification. Likely as a consequence, pandemic classification of the virus was delayed four to six weeks.”

The Chinese propagandists on this forum and elsewhere just don't get it. They are the ones that enable the criminal Chinese Communist Party government leadership that covered up the Covid-19 outbreak by accusing Dr. Li Wenliang and others of criminal activities, while lying that human-to-human transmission was not taking place. The Chinese Communist Party government leadership covered it up for at least six weeks and probably much longer, while allowing international travel, allowing the Covid-19 virus to spread everywhere. Xi Jinping and Chinese Communist Party government leadership is personally responsible for not only the deaths of Chinese people from Covid-19, but also millions of deaths worldwide due to spreading of Covid-19. Xi Jinping and Chinese Communist Party government leadership caused Chinese people's deaths by covering up that Covid-19 human-to-human transmission was taking place in order to spread the Covid-19 virus worldwide, thus using it as a bio-weapon.

And then the propagandists are bothered when the obvious truth about J-20 not being stealthy is disclosed. Anyone with knowledge of basic resonance physics can tell that the canards and joints (as well as other control surfaces and joints) can be tracked even by radar from the front. J-20 does not have a way to mask its radar/radome from being tracked by all bands of radar, even x band. Same goes for canopy, parts of inlets, sides and rear of the plane, which can also be tracked by all bands of radar. All bulges, cracks, joints, gaps, moving surfaces with edges and corners can be tracked by all bands of radar. The gap visible between canard and body from the front will be picked up by all bands of radar.

The Chinese propaganda psy ops graphics department is working overtime, posting pretty new propaganda images.
:rofl:
Funny how they get so many new photographs of J-20 every week in spite of it being a super duper classified program in China, or why Chinese propagandists must post these pictures every week in forums? Because it's a part of Chinese psy ops propaganda.
:rofl:
The J-20's only worth is psy ops for brainwashed Chinese people. The J-20 has a crappy radar copied from a severely downgraded Russian radar from 90s. The J-20 is not stealthy, despite what Chinese fanboys post. Chinese don't have a way to shield J-20 radar/radome or its IRST from being tracked by all bands of radar, even x band. The gaps between canards and body visible from the front are radar resonance hotspots, meaning they make J-20 visible to all bands of radar. The same holds true for other joints, gaps, bulges, cracks, corners and edges, moving surfaces and joints, bulges and corners in inlets, etc. The canopy, sides and rear of J-20 are also readily tracked by all bands of radar. This is why the J-20 was tracked by the Indian Air Force during exercises. Chinese excuses of radar reflectors are propaganda that China put out later to hide the fact that J-20 is visible to radar.

The J-20 currently relies on Russian engines that it had to pull out of imported SU-35s, just so it could fly for its propaganda psy ops photo session. J-20s radar is copied from severely downgraded Russian radar from 1990s. Why did China have to import SU-35s from Russia if the J-20 aircraft radar and engine have such great technology? :rofl:

These graphically enhanced pictures of J-20 are a part of Chinese propaganda psy ops designed to impress the Chinese population and others.:rofl:

The reality is that the J-20 is more a barbie doll propaganda plane based on lies more than anything else. It is currently only flying because of Russian engines taken from the SU-35 that China recently bought from Russia. All so it could be used as a propaganda tool.
:rofl:

These are the reasons why it was tracked by SU-30MKI radar at long range. So I will continue to call the J-20 a BS propaganda project, which is all it is. Chinese toys like J-20 are made to look pretty for propaganda psy ops purposes, but don't actually work very well.

J-20 radar is copied from downgraded Russian radars from the 90's and can be jammed by Indian, Russian and western jammers.

Chinese engine technology is so poor that its engines only last 80 hours before needing to be changed. This is why China still uses Russian engines on J-10s and JF-17s exported to Pakistan. Plus Chinese radar technology is so poor that Pakistan uses western radars on all JF-17s bought from China.

None of the Chinese toys work as advertised. Their fighter engines, avionics and aircraft technology is crap, and their pilot training sucks. The first female J-10 pilot died a horrible death after her J-10 engine failed and it crashed. Chinese had to reduce their pilots actual flying time and switch to simulator training because they were losing too many pilots and planes in crashes during flight training. Chinese engines and radars are such poor quality that Pakistan JF-17s are powered by Russian engines and use western radars and avionics. In any war, Chinese jets will crash left and right from engine failures, and Chinese radars will be disabled by Indian/Russian/western jammers. :rofl:

The videos below talk about how crappy the J-20 and other Chinese Air Force really are, and how much of what China shows to the world is propaganda based on lies, much like North Korea and other authoritarian states.


Abhijit Iyer Mitra Explains Why Chinese Air Force Can’t Defeat Indian Air Force
Dissecting modern fighter Aircrafts | Abhijit Iyer Mitra & Sanjay Dixit

Many people who believe Chinese propaganda about PLAAF shiny toys will be shocked if they found out how crappy Chinese engine reliability is in reality. Even their maintenance of Russian engines is so poor that their J-10s fall out of the sky, due to which they had to cut flight training and replace it with simulator training. It's easy to fly your fighters for their propaganda photo sessions, or post their pictures sitting on the airfield (although many of those are decoys); much harder when you have to fly several sorties in wartime, with your engines failing due to poor reliability, poor maintenance and cold weather. Chinese fighters will crash left and right when they are forced to fly several sorties for long durations in wartime.
basically trolling not an answer but a robot what it shows no ability to defend your points
 

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