LME-1100 - ISRO's 100 tonnes Methalox Engine Development Program

[Indx TechStyle]

Use this thread for further discussion on 100 tonnes Methalox Engine being developed for NGLV core only.
@Swesh @Vamsi
Thread for unrelated 2030 kN SCE-200 engine:

SCE-200 Semi-cryogenic Engine - News, Updates and Reports

From @Indx TechStyle This edit is being made on 11th of July 2022 to put summary on lead. SCE-200: A Kerolox Semi-cryo engine based on Staged Combustion Cycle. It will be the base of India's upcoming heavy cargo rockets and engines. Has a vacuum thrust of 2,030 kN (1800+ kN at sea level) as...

defenceforumindia.com

Related thread for general discussion of all Indian rocket engines development:

LPSC, Godrej Aerospace and other propulsion system makers in India

Thread to discuss, summarise and enlist existing and future rocket engines, boosters and new propulsion systems except SSLV stages and DMRJ/Scramjets. SSLV' stages will remain at SSLV thread. https://defenceforumindia.com/threads/sslv-news-discussions-updates-and-reports.80262/ I'm wondering if...

defenceforumindia.com

From past:

#ISRO

started developing METHALOX engines in 2019(Pic1,2). These engines may be clustered replace the cryogenic upper stage engines like CE-20(Pic4). LPSC had conducted Cold Flow tests in Oct 2020. It seems there were some more tests in Nov 2020 as well: https://buff.ly/3bwPOey

https://t.co/JZajJ7nA9A

I will quote/copy posts of members here from general engine and ISRO general news thread.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

ISRO's methalox engine tech demonstrator- 20 ton thrust (derived from CE-20). Final one will be 100 ton. ISRO is seriously considering methalox propulsion for the Next Generation Launch Vehicle (NGLV) along with kerolox SCE-200.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

Copied compilation by @RedPhantom:

Newsreader: Liquid Propulsion Systems Centre developed the hearts of PSLV(Vikas engine), GSLV and Mk2(CE-7.5 Cryogenic engine) LVM-3(CE-20 Crogenic engine). Now they are taking up the challenge of making engines for launchers bigger than GSLV, i.e, LOx Methane engine.

Dr. V. Narayanan: Using Liquid Oxygen and methane propellant, we have started a new engine development. A technology demonstrator has been realised and 6 to 7 test (or thrust?) experiment has been conducted using it. He have learned a lot of technology and using this knowledge, are developing a high thrust LOx engine based on the guidelines from chairman ISRO.

Newsreader: The first question is, if we already have liquid cryogenic engines, why do we need a new engine?

G. Nageshwaran: We use liquid oxygen and liquid hydrogen. Here we use liquid methane instead of liquid hydrogen in the LOx methane technology demonstrator engine and LOx scientific technology. The primary reason for that is that LNG, which is 95% methane is cheap and freely available. Cryogenic engines can be used in the final stage as well as a booster, so a single engine can be used for designing a rocket.

Newsreader: LOx engine is critical for interplanetary missions.

G. Nageshwaran: Jupiter, Uranus and the far away planets have oceans of liquid methane, which we can harness if we reach there. The speciality of this engine is that we can use that methane to run our engine.

Newsreader: The developments were very fast.

K. S. Bijukumar: Ordinarily, the LOx methane engine is a critical engine. But instead of testing the full engine in the first attempt directly, we tested ignition, which is the most important step. First we ignited the thrust chamber, then we ran the turbines and after that is the part called the gas generator, and after igniting it, we steadied(or studied?) the engine. Within a single year, we were able to realise the entire technology without any failure in the first try.

Newsreader: More powerful and re-usable engines will be a reality with LOx methane engines.

N. Jayan: ISRO is going to develop a 10 ton capacity reusable rocket that can be used multiple times, is very cheap and can compete in the international market, in the next 5 years. The most important component there is the LOx methane engine, and for that, LPSC has started the procedure for designing and developing a 100 ton thrust engine.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

Thread 1/n

RTI reply from LPSC (ISRO's lead liquid propulsion development center).

1. 1000kN methalox engine is being developed. It will be an open cycle (gas generator cycle) engine.

2. No major difference between Isrosene and other forms of rocket grade kerosene.

#ISRO

2/n
3. CE-20 engine will have restart capability in future hopefully.
4. SCE-200 not capable of being reused. I guess that's why they are developing methalox engine now.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

ISRO started the development of 100 Ton LOX-Methane engine for future NGLV & other Launch Vehicles. TD is already tested successfully. Advantage of LOX-M engine is it's reusable & can use as both booster & as upper stages, will replace Cryogenic stage in future Launch Vehicles

 

[Indx TechStyle]

Quoted from main thread.

The question should be what is the advantage of a Methalox engine over Hydrolox engine.

You have to maintain a temperature of -253 degree C in case of liquid hydrogen whereas liquid methane could be stored at -161.5 degree C. So storage becomes a bit easier in case of Methalox.

For every litre of LOX, we need 2.7 litre of Liquid hydrogen, but just .73 litre of Liquid Methane to burn. So a smaller fuel tank is required in case of Methalox compared to Hydrolox.

 

[Tejbrahmastra]

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Wish we could have done it from the very start? Seems like a very logical choice/common sense to use that fuel which is found in abundance, so why didn't they do it? Why every space agency prior to SpaceX was using Cryo engine even though methane was cheaper and its engines reusable? AFAIK methlox engine has lower ISP that cryo, is that the sole reason?

 

[SpeltAsStrength]

Wish we could have done it from the very start? Seems like a very logical choice/common sense to use that fuel which is found in abundance, so why didn't they do it? Why every space agency prior to SpaceX was using Cryo engine even though methane was cheaper and its engines reusable? AFAIK methlox engine has lower ISP that cryo, is that the sole reason?

LOX methane engines are often associated with reusable rocket designs. The SpaceX Starship, for example, uses a LOX methane engine and aims to achieve rapid turnaround times between launches, thereby reducing the overall cost of space access. Methane's characteristics, such as its stability and relatively easy handling, make it suitable for reuse-oriented systems.

But Cryogenic engines, typically fueled by liquid hydrogen and liquid oxygen, offer high specific impulse, which means they provide efficient thrust for a given amount of propellant. This performance advantage is beneficial for missions that require maximum payload capacity or exploration of deep space.

Also, Cryogenic propellants, particularly liquid hydrogen, have a high energy density and provide extended burn times, making them suitable for long-duration missions. Methane has a lower energy density compared to other propellants like hydrogen or RP-1, which means more fuel mass is required to achieve the same performance.

Both engine types have their own advantages and disadvantages, and the selection is based on factors such as performance requirements, payload capacity, mission duration, cost considerations, and available infrastructure.

 

[Vamsi]

Preliminary Design Review of 100ton Methalox engine completed....next step is critical design of the engine- ISRO chairman Dr Somanath
Watch from 30:48

 

[Indx TechStyle]

LME-1100 1146 kN methane engine for clustering in upcoming HLLVs and RLVs.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

ISRO/LPSC just released a tender for laser powder bed fusion 3D printing of a subscale thrust chamber of the future methalox LME 1100 engine to be used on NGLV. Tender also had a CAD file with the thrust chamber design. Tender doc and CAD file -
https://t.co/nDnnOO70Qr

Quoted from following tweet:

https://x.com/TitaniumSV5/status/1765780345243472035?s=20