ISRO General News and Updates

[SavageKing456]

This is the presentation about our interplanetary missions road map. This roadmap was made before 2017. Unfortunately we may see only Mangalyaan-2 & Shukrayaan (Venus Mission) in this decade.

I have to stick with defence for whitepills seems like there's not much good news coming from space domain

 

[Vamsi]

I have to stick with defence for whitepills seems like there's not much good news coming from space domain

For white pills in space sector, we have to wait until Gaganyaan is launched. Unfortunately it's affecting other important programs

 

[Vamsi]

Semi-Cryo Engine update
Source - Isro reddit r/ISRO

Source for below is Galactic nessier - r/ISRO

 

[Vamsi]

 

[Okabe Rintarou]

Holy $hit.

This is amazing, so much new info, I can't summarize it all, but off the top of my head:-

• Methalox engine
  • TD lab tested already
  • 30kN engine pre 2025
  • 100kN engine post 2025
  • 800kN full fledged engine by 2030!
• Air-breathing TSTO TD to have first flight later this decade!
  • Capable of 2 tons to LEO (its just a TD).
  • Basically our very own spaceplane similar to the one shown in the opening scene of the Anime Planetes.
  • Turbo based combined cycle engine: Turbojet+Ramjet+Scramjet (our very own SR-72)!
  • So military applications of this tech are immense as well.
  • SCRAMJET flight test on HAVA vehicle being readied right now.
• Work on co-orbital killer satellites:-
  • Rendezvous with orbiting satellite and capture of it
  • Tether for "debris capture"
  • Satellite refueling
  • All tech that will be building block for our offensive space capabilities for military
  • The presentation mentioned the word "Space FORCE" (Force in all caps).
• Drones
  • Drones for spent stage recovery (by catching falling stage with 4 drones holding a net)!
  • ^Tech demo planned to be flown soon, RH-200 rocket booster to be caught 9 km downrange!
  • Satellite control of drones
• QuantESS payload to demonstrate Quantum Key Distribution (in space), to be flown as PSLV PS4 stage piggyback. (This PS4 stage piggyback of microgravity experiments was a brilliant idea).
• Work on 3D printing including a demo of space 3D printing on a PSLV piggyback

Usual updates:-

• New monopropellants to replace harmful ones like Hydrazine.
• Work on 5W RTG for Voyager class probes
• Work on batteries, fuel cells and supercapacitors
• Higher use of composites for rocket and spacecraft structures (lack of indigenous sources of quality carbon fibers is a problem)
• Indigenization of electronic components (lack of foundry is a problem)
• Vikram processor being used on LVs.
• One-piece MEMS based INS/NavIC module
• AI for Intelligent Vehicle Health Monitoring
• Advanced concept: Self-eating rockets

 

[Okabe Rintarou]

Thank God Kaveri program is turning a corner. We need indigenous turbojet right now. Would be a bit odd if we have a functioning scramjet and a ramjet, but our Air-breathing TSTO spaceplane doesn't have the required turbojet. Makes me wonder, if the TD for this is planned to fly in 6-7 years, does that mean it will also use a dry version of Kaveri? Or is GTRE expected to work on some other engine?

 

[Abdus Salem killed]

Thank God Kaveri program is turning a corner. We need indigenous turbojet right now. Would be a bit odd if we have a functioning scramjet and a ramjet, but our Air-breathing TSTO spaceplane doesn't have the required turbojet. Makes me wonder, if the TD for this is planned to fly in 6-7 years, does that mean it will also use a dry version of Kaveri? Or is GTRE expected to work on some other engine?

Meaning when will kaveri come ?

 

[Okabe Rintarou]

Meaning when will kaveri come ?

Purely my estimation:-
Dry version possible by 2025.

 

[Vamsi]

Thank God Kaveri program is turning a corner. We need indigenous turbojet right now. Would be a bit odd if we have a functioning scramjet and a ramjet, but our Air-breathing TSTO spaceplane doesn't have the required turbojet. Makes me wonder, if the TD for this is planned to fly in 6-7 years, does that mean it will also use a dry version of Kaveri? Or is GTRE expected to work on some other engine?

In a combined cycle engine,Ramjet/Scramjet combustor will act as an Afterburner for Dry TurboFan engine. So technically Dry Kaveri can be used, but the number of engines depend on MTOW of space plane. But for a reconnaissance aircraft like SR-72, even one engine may be enough I think.

 

[Okabe Rintarou]

In a combined cycle engine,Ramjet/Scramjet combustor will act as an Afterburner for Dry TurboFan engine. So technically Dry Kaveri can be used, but the number of engines depend on MTOW of space plane. But for a reconnaissance aircraft like SR-72, even one engine may be enough I think.

This is a bit confusing
ISRO showed this concept for the AB-TSTO:-

I had intially thought it would be a DMRJ, but here they show ramjet and scramjet are separate. Feels like the turboramjet alone would be similar to the SR-71's engine. And then you add a separate scramjet and two separate rocket stages on top of that. Quite a complex vehicle. Basically, its 5 stage: turbojet -> Ramjet -> Scramjet -> Rocket stage 1 -> Rocket stage 2.

SR-71 had this:-

Overall, I don't understand why they aren't keeping the turbojet separate and then diverting airflow to a DMRJ for both ramjet and scramjet flight? That seems way more simple compared to the turboramjet.





For an SR-72 style aircraft, we just need to replace the rocket stages with fuel tanks for the scramjet.

 

[Abdus Salem killed]

Purely my estimation:-
Dry version possible by 2025.

Dry meaning it can't be used in planes ?

 

[Okabe Rintarou]

Dry meaning it can't be used in planes ?

Can be used in planes meant to fly below Mach 1.

 

[SavageKing456]

This is a bit confusing
ISRO showed this concept for the AB-TSTO:-

I had intially thought it would be a DMRJ, but here they show ramjet and scramjet are separate. Feels like the turboramjet alone would be similar to the SR-71's engine. And then you add a separate scramjet and two separate rocket stages on top of that. Quite a complex vehicle. Basically, its 5 stage: turbojet -> Ramjet -> Scramjet -> Rocket stage 1 -> Rocket stage 2.

SR-71 had this:-

Overall, I don't understand why they aren't keeping the turbojet separate and then diverting airflow to a DMRJ for both ramjet and scramjet flight? That seems way more simple compared to the turboramjet.





For an SR-72 style aircraft, we just need to replace the rocket stages with fuel tanks for the scramjet.

We could have two ways,1 by PDE or 2 by conversion
For pulse detonation engine you need air of high pressure,Otherwise it will be too heavy For the pressurized air you need a compressor and for compressor you need power,It may be suited for short distance one way travel like hypersonic missiles,but it will not be suitable for a high speed aircraft
Better is
We can convert a subsonic capable turbofan into a high supersonic one With proper shock cone and shock boundary layer interaction controls,A rotating detonation combustion chamber in the engines will pave the way for future manned hypersonic fighter jets because it is a constant volume process and in constant volume process your get higher amount of heat in the same temperature regime

 

[Okabe Rintarou]

For pulse detonation engine you need air of high pressure,Otherwise it will be too heavy For the pressurized air you need a compressor and for compressor you need power,It may be suited for short distance one way travel like hypersonic missiles,but it will not be suitable for a high speed aircraft
Better is
We can convert a subsonic capable turbofan into a high supersonic one With proper shock cone and shock boundary layer interaction controls,A rotating detonation combustion chamber in the engines will pave the way for future manned hypersonic fighter jets because it is a constant volume process and in constant volume process your get higher amount of heat in the same temperature regime

Their thrust is not constant, so the stresses of the airframe and engine are likely to be immense. How do you propose to reconcile the primarily continuous airflow of a turbojet with that of the intermittence of a PDE?

 

[The Shrike]

"Air-breathing TSTO TD to have first flight later this decade!"
If he is talking about about an actual vehicle that will go to space? At this point the a regular TSTO is all that's looking realistic by end of the decade. A TSTO with turbojet-ramjet-scramjet is pro ultra max hopium overdoze.

 

[Okabe Rintarou]

"Air-breathing TSTO TD to have first flight later this decade!"
If he is talking about about an actual vehicle that will go to space? At this point the a regular TSTO is all that's looking realistic by end of the decade. A TSTO with turbojet-ramjet-scramjet is pro ultra max hopium overdoze.

Yes. I know, it sounds almost impossible given current state of affairs, but I'd never seen a timeline on the Air-breathing TSTO before, I just assumed it would be attempted after the RLV-TD based TSTO succeeds in late 2020s. So somewhere in the late 2030s or early 2040s maybe. Which is why this addtion of a "later this decade" surprised me. Even if it is for a TD.
But the building blocks are meant to be in place by around 2025-27. So why not? Its just a TD, not the full vehicle.

But then I saw the "turbo-ramjet" they are planning, and now even I am questioning that date. I thought they would go with a simple turbojet + dmrj. Turboramjet is going to introduce unwanted complexities. At this stage, our DMRJ and turbojet are at similar levels of maturity. Turboramjet is something that (as far as I know) is on a ppt, not even on the drawing board yet.

 

[Abdus Salem killed]

Can be used in planes meant to fly below Mach 1.

Can be used in tejas mk 2 and amca ?

 

[Abdus Salem killed]

Can be used in planes meant to fly below Mach 1.

Which planes will it be used in exactly

 

[Vamsi]

This is a bit confusing
ISRO showed this concept for the AB-TSTO:-

I had intially thought it would be a DMRJ, but here they show ramjet and scramjet are separate. Feels like the turboramjet alone would be similar to the SR-71's engine. And then you add a separate scramjet and two separate rocket stages on top of that. Quite a complex vehicle. Basically, its 5 stage: turbojet -> Ramjet -> Scramjet -> Rocket stage 1 -> Rocket stage 2.

SR-71 had this:-

Overall, I don't understand why they aren't keeping the turbojet separate and then diverting airflow to a DMRJ for both ramjet and scramjet flight? That seems way more simple compared to the turboramjet.





For an SR-72 style aircraft, we just need to replace the rocket stages with fuel tanks for the scramjet.

ISRO's Scramjet is actually a Dual Mode Ramjet. They tested it in 2016 using a Rohini sounding rocket called ATV-2. Don't take much from those renders.

 

[Haldilal]

Ya'll Nibbiars