ISRO News and Updates

HitmanBlood

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Those two designs on the right, although a standard design but looks similar to Zenit. Is there any Ukrainian help?

Also it looks like all major future roket plans depend on sucess of SCE200. When can we expect it to be inducted or reveled?

Is every time new facility need to create for new type of engine. Cant same facility be used for all engines ?
No idea.
 

THESIS THORON

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Those two designs on the right, although a standard design but looks similar to Zenit. Is there any Ukrainian help?
Indian version

In 2005, Ukraine agreed to provide India with designs for the RD-810 engine and, on Nov. 20, 2006, the Indian Space Research Organization, ISRO, awarded a contract to KB Yuzhnoe for a project code-named Jasmine, which officially started the development of the RD-810. In India, the RD-810-based engine was dubbed SCE-200, which stood for "semi-cryogenic," indicating the use of kerosene fuel, which can be stored at regular temperatures, and liquid oxygen, which requires cryogenic conditions to stay in liquid form. The "200" in the designation denoted its thrust of 200 tons.

ISRO planned to install the SCE-200 engine on the modified core stage of the GSLV Mark 3 rocket replacing the older propulsion system. It would boost the payload capacity of the rocket to the geostationary transfer orbit from four to six tons. Later, four similar engines could propel a new-generation rocket, which could deliver up to 10 tons to the same orbit without the help of strap-on boosters.

In addition to assisting with the design of the engine, KB Yuzhnoe also advised ISRO on the development of the prospective launch vehicle itself.
 

THESIS THORON

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RD 810 IS NOT PAR WITH SPACEX RAPTOR

ISP IS 30 SEC LESS AND THRUST ALSO

I THINK CHAMBER PRESSURE SHOULD BE INC.
BUT THAT REQ ADVANCED METALLURGY
 

Okabe Rintarou

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@Lonewolf I got an update for you about SCE-200, this update is from Strategic Frontier Forum

The SCE-200 engine began life with ISRO acquiring the Ukrainian RD-810 semi-cryogenic engine blueprints from the Yuzhnoye Design Bureau in 2005. The design of the engine was the only thing that was acquired. Other vital stuff like the mathematical models, materials used etc. were not brought.

This means ISRO had know how without the know why. So they had to reverse engineer the know why. Along the way ISRO made modifications to the engine design, materials, production methods, fuel etc. thus making the SCE-200 engine a derivative of the RD-810 not an exact replica. Besides the Ukrainians themselves have never built the RD-810, so you can't really say its a proven design.

The engine was originally designed to use RP-1 as the fuel. ISRO wanted to use their own Kerosene derivative called the Isrosene. The original design assumed most of the components of the rocket will be made conventionally by using processes like investment casting, ISRO began 3D printing the components. Reverse engineering the know how and making changes to the original design took around a decade.

View attachment 89409
Low Pressure Oxidiser Turbo(LPOT) pump.

View attachment 89411
Some breakthroughs made in metallurgy

View attachment 89413
Single element thrust chamber hot test
View attachment 89429
Injector design experiments

Component level testing began in around 2015. Small scale tests were conducted to fix the propellant to oxidiser ratio for Isrosene. Igniters were also designed and tested. New materials were being experimented with. Components level testing continued for another 2 years, in 2017 ISRO signed an agreement with the Yuzhmash production facility for hot testing full sized engine components. The entire engine was planned to be tested in India.

View attachment 89439

Aerial view of the propulsion testing facility at the Yuzhmash plant in Dnipro, Ukraine.

ISRO Propulsion Complex (IPRC) in Mahendragiri had set up a Semi-cryogenic Cold Flow Test facility (SCFT) for the development, qualification and acceptance testing of semi-cryogenic engine subsystems. this is where most sub-systems were tested till date. IPRC were also sanctioned by ISRO to build a new test stand for hot fire testing of the full sized engine. A new test stand is needed as the current test stand was simply inadequate for handling the ~2MN thrust output of the SCE-200. But that project got delayed due to unknown reasons. As of 2021 the new test stand is yet to be completed.


View attachment 89438

Satellite image of the under construction new test stand from 2018.


ISRO had sent Indian made engine components to Ukraine in 2018-2019 period. The component tests were supposed to end by 2019. After the tests end the components would be shipped back to India where they would be assembled to build a full sized engine. No news was heard of the SCE-200 component tests in the Indian, Ukrainian or any other media. At least nothing on the English language media. If something was published in the Ukrainian/Russian language media then I have missed it.

And now comes the hypothetical part:

In November 2020, a video was put out on Youtube about the Yuzhmash engine plant :

An Ukrainian member posted this on NASASpaceflight forum suggesting that a new engine shown in that video was the SCE-200 engine. The narrator in the video remarks the engine was a unique design & produces tremendous thrust. Then the narrator adds that the engine belongs to a foreign nation adding they will not disclose which nation it is.

Here are some screenshots of the engine :

View attachment 89437





View attachment 89435

View attachment 89434







This Engine is supposedly SCE-200

I initially dismissed this as some other engine of some other country. But now I think it may be the SCE-200 after all. In a recent presentation Dr. S. Somanath showed slides that put the estimated timeline of the development of a SC400 rocket stage based on the SCE-200 engines to be a just 2 years away. That would naturally mean the engine is very close to being ready.

View attachment 89430

After seeing the above slide, I wonder whether ISRO is planning Manned Gaganyaan flight using the HLV, because the timelines mentioned for Human-rated HLV (2023) match with that of 1st Manned Gaganyaan flight.

Last year there was a tender for making trailers for the SC120 stage to be used in the GSLV Mk-3 augmentation project. If they are calling tenders for trailers for the SC120, surely design of the stage has been finalised. There is no way of finalising a rocket stage design without testing the engine prototypes. Looking at it from that POV it does seem likely that the engine shown above is indeed the SCE-200. Maybe the agreement between ISRO and Yuzhmash stretches beyond hot testing engine components. Maybe they would assemble the engine and conduct hot tests on it too.

When ISRO acquired the RD-810 blueprints from the Yuzhnoye Design Bureau they offered to help design an entire launch rocket based on that engine. Of course from the RD-810 to the SCE-200 the engine design has changed quite a bit. Wonder if that offer still stands.
Guys, is there any chance of ISRO using HLV for Manned Ganganyaan flight instead of GSLV-MK3, because the timeline mentioned for both of them are matching i.e 2023. Also a fully liquid fuelled rocket is more safer than Solid fulled rocket, because it can be throttled down ,thus reducing g-forces on astronauts
One of the Akin's laws of spacecraft design goes like this:-
The three keys to keeping a new human space program affordable and on schedule:
1) No new launch vehicles.
2) No new launch vehicles.
3) Whatever you do, don't develop any new launch vehicles.


No way they are using HLV-HSP for Gaganyaan. No way they will manage to even test the HLV in 2022-23. That was their original target. Its delayed. They are just recycling their slides and not paying much of an attention to the dates mentioned therein. After recent delays as well as the surprise anouncement of Gaganyaan mission, HLV and HLV-HSP rockets are not likely before 2025 in my opinion.
 

Lonewolf

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Is every time new facility need to create for new type of engine. Cant same facility be used for all engines ?
Different thrust different facility , your facility will be blow up if used to test more powerful engine , it would be like a engine breaking all walls and flying away
 

omaebakabaka

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May be I am the only one that is against private companies taking hold in strategic sectors, I will never trust them. Canned manufacturing is fine when distributed to few companies but that is the extent I will support, fuck the commercial side of it, there are many sectors of economy to profit out of
 

Lonewolf

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May be I am the only one that is against private companies taking hold in strategic sectors, I will never trust them. Canned manufacturing is fine when distributed to few companies but that is the extent I will support, fuck the commercial side of it, there are many sectors of economy to profit out of
They should be allowed but not as Monopoly , also a government entity should also be present , as rnd mostly and strict quality control
 

omaebakabaka

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They should be allowed but not as Monopoly , also a government entity should also be present , as rnd mostly and strict quality control
That will never work, money will buy anyone and everything....it is not about monopoly or not. It is not the way to go in certain sectors....look at big tech and narayan murthy and what he supports....on the other hand we have down to earth like Dr. Shivam that keep on going day by day
 

Lonewolf

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That will never work, money will buy anyone and everything....it is not about monopoly or not. It is not the way to go in certain sectors....look at big tech and narayan murthy and what he supports....
Big tech were allowed to make Monopoly and supported so , also in india it matter sector to sector , not some bard and fast rule for everything
 

omaebakabaka

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Big tech were allowed to make Monopoly and supported so , also in india it matter sector to sector , not some bard and fast rule for everything
"Allowed/approved" is the word associated with corruption.....never let private sector to do anything whole more than componentry into strategic sectors. It will be a huge mistake, we already a giant like US on its knees by the likes of FB, Twitter and Google and what not.

Also if Musk is an example then he got tech handed to him by tax payer funded research of decades for free....he will never invest in something that does not lead to profit or rather immediate profit and they will lead to diluting central institutions in the mean time...we have lot of examples like that from HMT to IDPL and what not.
 

THESIS THORON

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"Allowed/approved" is the word associated with corruption.....never let private sector to do anything whole more than componentry into strategic sectors. It will be a huge mistake, we already a giant like US on its knees by the likes of FB, Twitter and Google and what not.

Also if Musk is an example then he got tech handed to him by tax payer funded research of decades for free....he will never invest in something that does not lead to profit or rather immediate profit and they will lead to diluting central institutions in the mean time...we have lot of examples like that from HMT to IDPL and what not.
IMO IT IS BEC LOBBYING IS LEGAL THERE SO ALWAYS SENATORS ARE IN SALE
 

omaebakabaka

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IMO IT IS BEC LOBBYING IS LEGAL THERE SO ALWAYS SENATORS ARE IN SALE
There are much easier things than lobbying in India to influence our politicians.....we can all agree to that :). I can just start with tenders visualization in my mind and think about the IAS and ministers and what not....rightnow atleast ISRO do not have to worry about certain things....scandals and scams will not be too far behind.
 

Lonewolf

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There are much easier things than lobbying in India to influence our politicians.....we can all agree to that :). I can just start with tenders visualization in my mind and think about the IAS and ministers and what not....rightnow atleast ISRO do not have to worry about certain things....scandals and scams will not be too far behind.
You want to talk which sector ?
 

omaebakabaka

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Not isro but nsil would take care of launch afterwards , and we can assist small private sector , for sslv class .

Also isro rocket components are made by private partner ,no quality issues
As long as we don't go the musk/US model in anything.....I actually prefer Japanese model inspite of all the rap they get on stagnant economy and what not. It is clear western model is not good for countries anymore....it is important to get one cultural flavor into their system organically, we need to find our own. Japanese colloborate, collude and what not but there are rules they follow inspite of all those things....

Got to be extremely careful and really measure private sector innovation in other sectors first on the world stage before worshipping them....most of the tech from private sector is not 1st rated competing on the world stage yet...and a lot of opaqueness on the indigenous labeling in my opinion
 

FalconZero

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Lonewolf

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As long as we don't go the musk/US model in anything.....I actually prefer Japanese model inspite of all the rap they get on stagnant economy and what not. It is clear western model is not good for countries anymore....it is important to get one cultural flavor into their system organically, we need to find our own. Japanese colloborate, collude and what not but there are rules they follow inspite of all those things....

Got to be extremely careful and really measure private sector innovation in other sectors first on the world stage before worshipping them....most of the tech from private sector is not 1st rated competing on the world stage yet...and a lot of opaqueness on the indigenous labeling in my opinion
Yeah i agree on that , but why japanese ,why not a indian model of approach , our industries are different , functioning is different ,so our way of working should be different which suits us most
 

omaebakabaka

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Yeah i agree on that , but why japanese ,why not a indian model of approach , our industries are different , functioning is different ,so our way of working should be different which suits us most
Here it is from my earlier post....
"It is important to get one cultural flavor into their system organically, we need to find our own"

I like the Japanese as its inward looking and extremely long term....back when ieyasu tokugawa took power in late 1500's, on his death bed he told to his son to ban the missionaries and that continued till almost next 300 years and he saw them exactly as what they are....colonizers and evil that will ruin them if they let them in.

Even now, Japanese corporate boards are mostly Japanese and their market is mostly domestic companies....do not beleive in western analysts stagnant nonsense and population decline...
 

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