Is Air force capable of Two Front War?

Armand2REP

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Dude they have like what ,uoto 64 4th gen aircraft.The bulk of their force is made up of non-upgraded chinese junk and dassault mirage-3,5.Even Mig-21 Bisons will lay their airforce to the ground.
Half of PAF is made up with Mirage and the other with J-7s. Many of the Mirage have undergone the ROSE upgrade and the F-7Ps have been fitted with Grifo-7 radar which is license produced in Pakistan. With MiG-21s having spare problems and R-77 seekers malfunctioning on a regular basis, I would not dismiss PAF so easily. Their pilots get alot of flight hours in Pakistan and flying as mercenaries in the GCC getting Western training. With Magic and Sidewinders, PAF can give a run for the money in a BVR fight. With them getting 500 AIM-120Cs for the F-16s, they will not be pushovers. Also an F-16 armed with AMRAAM tied into a SAAB AWACs equals a deadly combination even for MKIs. IAF needs MRCA and the MiG-29/M2000 upgrades very soon.
 

ppgj

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Only T-90S is underpowered,the second batch of russian tanks and all Indian tanks are T-90M.
can you back it up?? T-90M has been just shown to Putin only in december last. in other words it is still a prototype!! for it to become operational the new autoloader has to be validated. it is still a long way from being operational.

besides indian TOT is for T-90S. so what makes you think it would be T-90M??

T-90S license manufacture

A $795 million dollar transfer of technology agreement was inked on February 15, 2001, between the Government of India and the Federal State Unitary Enterprise "State Corporation 'Rosvoorouzhenic' of the Russian Federation."
http://kuku.sawf.org/News/59601.aspx

even for T-90S, russians have played traunt wrt TOT. and if at some point, india opts for T-90M when it becomes operational, there will be a hefty sum to be paid besides massive changes to the present T-90S which means more time and money.
 

AJSINGH

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Two front war with PLAAF and PAF ,is possible but only for some time , Mig29SMT can handle PAF,what we need is to hold off PLAAF ,there Su30 for multi role and Mig21 and hopefully LCA for point defense and mirage can do precision strike
and remember brilliant tactics and neutralise even PLAAF ( remember how vietnam airforce kicked US naval air arm )
 

sabreendeven

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Two front war with PLAAF and PAF ,is possible but only for some time , Mig29SMT can handle PAF,what we need is to hold off PLAAF ,there Su30 for multi role and Mig21 and hopefully LCA for point defense and mirage can do precision strike and remember brilliant tactics and neutralise even PLAAF ( remember how vietnam airforce kicked US naval air arm )
 
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sabreendeven

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To be very honest, we should avoid posting such articles here. I don't know why should we even think about war.

And to put it explicitly, it is more than impossible to go for two front war even if our economy grows by double figure percent.
China is way to ahead and still developing. India is developing at a decent rate but still we wouldn't be able to catch up with them, unless some miracle happens.

well nothing is free in the world

if you want peace then you should be read for war

war is value of peace

truly and frankly IAF is not ready for 2 front war policy

all the projects are too late and wasting lots of important time

china is silent is not mean peace they are doing there work but we have to keep our self ready for any thing china is ahead and lots of things need to catch china
 

mayfair

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I do not know if this is true, but many posters on Pak forums have been claiming that in the aftermath of 26/11, a couple of Indian fighters crossed the international border but were locked on by PAF F-16s and forced to abort. Can anyone confirm or deny this?
 

AJSINGH

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I do not know if this is true, but many posters on Pak forums have been claiming that in the aftermath of 26/11, a couple of Indian fighters crossed the international border but were locked on by PAF F-16s and forced to abort. Can anyone confirm or deny this?
not true ...you cant trust pakistani anyways and IAF is still has superior aircraft why would it be blocked by some old F-16
 

mirage2000

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not true ...you cant trust pakistani anyways and IAF is still has superior aircraft why would it be blocked by some old F-16
I Agree with AJSINGH , Moreover i will elaborate you with the details of kargil war .The details of which i was reading just few days especially the IAF's areena . where ground attack was pressed by MIG 21 , MIG 27, MIRAGE 2000 , JAGUAR .......... WHere as air superiority was achived with MIG 29 and MIRAGE 2000 . in one such incidence ,

this is a quote "Indian MiG-29s were used extensively during the 1999 Kargil War in Kashmir by the Indian Air Force to provide fighter escort for Mirage 2000, which were attacking targets with laser-guided bombs. According to Indian sources, MiG-29s from the IAF's No. 47 squadron (Black Archers) gained missile lock on two F-16s of the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) which were patrolling close to the border to prevent any incursions by Indian aircraft, but did not engage them because no official declaration of war had been issued. The Indian MiG-29s were armed with beyond-visual-range air-to-air missiles whereas the Pakistani F-16s were not.".


so what they are claming are might not be TRUE
 

mayfair

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We are talking about different times here..at the time of the Kargil war, Paks were under extensive sanctions following the nuclear tests, their F-16s were hurting for the want of spares and had no AMRAAMs or BVR capabilities. 9 years down the line, US supplied them with F-16 upgrade kits, spanking new block 52 vipers, a bunch of AMRAAMs, helicopters, unarmed drones and what not.

I am not saying that their claims are true..far form it. Being pathological liars that they are, they could have easily made it up. However, it must be acknowledged that PAF is a professional force and a formidable foe. To underestimate them in the sway of jingoism would be foolish. I only wish to know if we have any insiders here who can confirm or deny that such incident ever took place. After all if we did have air superiority, we could have attempted some limited strikes with little concern. It's obvious that there's much more to military machinations that we are aware of.
 
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Pakistan lost 4 wars against India, but they have won in the diplomatic sense by playing the victim and gaining access to weapons whenever possible, and with nations like USA that want to break into the Indian defense market obliging them, it puts India in a difficult position. USA went from bombing Pakistan back to the stone age to arming them for one simple reason money. USA gifts Pakistan weapons and it wants India to counter by BUYING better weapons. The rivalry is created for plain and simple reason profit. This rivalry is played thruout the world TurkeGreece,South-North Korea, Taiwan-china etc... and by playing this angle of the India-Pak rivalry it opens another new market for USA. But this still may not make India buyer for the simple reason what India BUYS from USA today USA will GIFT to pak tomorrow and End user agreements have also become a thorn in almost all orders.
 

nrj

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Pakistan lost 4 wars against India, but they have won in the diplomatic sense by playing the victim and gaining access to weapons whenever possible, and with nations like USA that want to break into the Indian defense market obliging them, it puts India in a difficult position. USA went from bombing Pakistan back to the stone age to arming them for one simple reason money. USA gifts Pakistan weapons and it wants India to counter by BUYING better weapons. The rivalry is created for plain and simple reason profit. This rivalry is played thruout the world TurkeGreece,South-North Korea, Taiwan-china etc... and by playing this angle of the India-Pak rivalry it opens another new market for USA. But this still may not make India buyer for the simple reason what India BUYS from USA today USA will GIFT to pak tomorrow and End user agreements have also become a thorn in almost all orders.
I wish Pak based terror group with active help from corrupt pak goverment gift US a blow they'll never be able to wash. India has smartly learned US stupid policy to suppress the regional powers from growing to global stage which can demote US in any way.

Can US answer why Pak needs BVR capable F16? To fight terrorists hiding in trenches?
IAF has got PAF under its toes now. Ground attack Brahmos signifies the clear strategy in the planning of IAF to bring down pak forces matter of hours..
 
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joe81

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Its good to have a strong theory on Two Front War. But the most important question is : What are we doing to be to win this Two Front War. We should look at Israel for inspiration.
Have a look at the 1967 war. Egypt massed approximately 100,000 of its 160,000 troops in the Sinai, including all of its seven divisions (four infantry, two armored and one mechanized), as well as four independent infantry and four independent armored brigades.Syria's army had a total strength of 75,000 and amassed them along the Syrian border.[129] Jordan's army had 55,000 troops,[130] including 300 tanks along the Jordanian border, 250 of which were US M48 Patton, sizable amounts of M113 APCs, a new battalion of mechanized infantry, and a paratrooper battalion trained in the new US-built school. They also had 12 battalions of artillery and six batteries of 81 mm and 120 mm mortars.[101].100 Iraqi tanks and an infantry division were readied near the Jordanian border. Two squadrons of fighter-aircraft, Hawker Hunters and MiG 21 respectively, were rebased adjacent to the Jordanian border.[101]. On the other hand The Israeli army had a total strength, including reservists, of 264,000.Egypt had by far the largest and the most modern of all the Arab air forces, consisting of about 420 combat aircraft,[134] all of them Soviet-built and with a heavy quota of top-of-the line MiG-21 capable of attaining Mach 2 speed.. In spite of all these odds, Israel beat the Arab world in 6 days. Israel's first and most critical move was a surprise pre-emptive attack based on solid intelligence on the Egypt's Airforce.
Remember, the number of aircraft's with PLAAF should not bother us.We should rely on solid intelligence and should not be afraid of pre-emptive attack.
 

AJSINGH

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like i said brilliant and superb coordination on the side IAF and IA can defeat both the countries
 

Zoravar

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Have a look at the 1967 war. Egypt massed approximately 100,000 of its 160,000 troops in the Sinai, including all of its seven divisions (four infantry, two armored and one mechanized), as well as four independent infantry and four independent armored brigades.Syria's army had a total strength of 75,000 and amassed them along the Syrian border.[129] Jordan's army had 55,000 troops,[130] including 300 tanks along the Jordanian border, 250 of which were US M48 Patton, sizable amounts of M113 APCs, a new battalion of mechanized infantry, and a paratrooper battalion trained in the new US-built school. They also had 12 battalions of artillery and six batteries of 81 mm and 120 mm mortars.[101].100 Iraqi tanks and an infantry division were readied near the Jordanian border. Two squadrons of fighter-aircraft, Hawker Hunters and MiG 21 respectively, were rebased adjacent to the Jordanian border.[101]. On the other hand The Israeli army had a total strength, including reservists, of 264,000.Egypt had by far the largest and the most modern of all the Arab air forces, consisting of about 420 combat aircraft,[134] all of them Soviet-built and with a heavy quota of top-of-the line MiG-21 capable of attaining Mach 2 speed.. In spite of all these odds, Israel beat the Arab world in 6 days. Israel's first and most critical move was a surprise pre-emptive attack based on solid intelligence on the Egypt's Airforce.
Israel did not attack with intelligence,they attacked in advance.You tell me,does an arms buildup mean your gonna go to war,if yes,then world war 3 would have happened during the coldwar.
You can't attack until unless you have solid proof that the enemy has decided to wage war,which Israel didn't but they still attacked first.Secondly Israel is desperate for survival,you cant compare tbhem with us.
 

Zoravar

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Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Zoravar Click here to enlarge
Only T-90S is underpowered,the second batch of russian tanks and all Indian tanks are T-90M.
can you back it up?? T-90M has been just shown to Putin only in december last. in other words it is still a prototype!! for it to become operational the new autoloader has to be validated. it is still a long way from being operational.

besides indian TOT is for T-90S. so what makes you think it would be T-90M??

T-90S license manufacture

A $795 million dollar transfer of technology agreement was inked on February 15, 2001, between the Government of India and the Federal State Unitary Enterprise "State Corporation 'Rosvoorouzhenic' of the Russian Federation."
http://kuku.sawf.org/News/59601.aspx

even for T-90S, russians have played traunt wrt TOT. and if at some point, india opts for T-90M when it becomes operational, there will be a hefty sum to be paid besides massive changes to the present T-90S which means more time and money.
Since you do not believe me,I shal take it upon myself to present a source:

A third contract, worth $1.23 billion, was signed in December 2007 for 347 upgraded T-90Ms, the bulk of which will be licence-assembled by HVF. The Army hopes to field a force of over 21 regiments of T-90 tanks and 40 regiments of modified T-72s. The Indian Army would begin receiving its first T-90M main battle tank (MBT) in completely knocked-down condition from Russia's Nizhny Tagil-based Uralvagonzavod JSC by the end of 2009.[10][21]

The T-90M features the 'Kaktus' embedded explosive reactive armour (ERA) package on its frontal hull and turret-top (the T-90S has 'Kontakt-5' ERA), is fitted with an enhanced environmental control system supplied by Israel's Kinetics Ltd for providing cooled air to the fighting compartment, has additional internal volume for housing the cryogenic cooling systems for new-generation thermal imagers like the THALES-built Catherine-FC thermal imager (operating in the 8-12 micron bandwidth.[10] In all, India plans to have 310 T-90S and 1,330 T-90M tanks in service by 2020.[22]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-90
 

BunBunCake

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like i said brilliant and superb coordination on the side IAF and IA can defeat both the countries
The Numerical superiority the Chinese have against us means we WILL get our a$$ kicked.
It's IMPOSSIBLE. Unless the Chinese generals are drunk and nuke themselves ;)
 

StealthSniper

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I think it might be possible to have a 2 front war if we have our Scorpene subs, our 2 aircraft carriers, and we have 126 or more MMRCA and LCA ready to fight. Until then I think we have enough to defend our country but we need a lot of things before we can really have a war with Pakistan and China. Right now I think we have enough to take on Pakistan but we can always improve and get better.
 

BunBunCake

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I think it might be possible to have a 2 front war if we have our Scorpene subs, our 2 aircraft carriers, and we have 126 or more MMRCA and LCA ready to fight. Until then I think we have enough to defend our country but we need a lot of things before we can really have a war with Pakistan and China. Right now I think we have enough to take on Pakistan but we can always improve and get better.
China will have 100+ subs by the time we have 20 some.
China will also have 2-3 AC's.
Chinese Air force is much bigger than +126 to IAF.

PakFA ought to cut the difference in our Airforce's strength though.
 

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