Introduce Gita, Mahabharata in class 1: SC judge

Peter

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@Peter. I can not rate these epics. They both are timeless and priceless. Ramayana definitely teaches moral values but one has to understand the real world too. Here comes Mahabharat. One need to understand what is moral and immoral. You can not term Mahabharat as "Immoral." Please read it once.
I have read it. IMO it is immoral. If you want me to list those parts I can do that too.
 
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Ajesh

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I have read it. IMO it is immoral. If you want me to list those parts I can do that too.
Comparing Mahabharata with ideals of Satya Yuga is not Ok.. Here in this Era, the Result Matters, The End Defines the means. But also note that People reap what they sow also..

Mahabharata is apt for this Era.

The suffering for the likes of Sharad Pawar and Laloo are the perfect examples. PS: Somewhat off Topic.
 

Srinivas_K

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@Free Karma @brational. I do not know how one can rate the Mahabharata over Ramayana. Ramayana is one of the greatest stories ever told. The concept of devotion to parents being greater than one`s own life and happiness is something that is unique in this epic. On the contrary Mahabharata is filled with immoral and useless stories. How can one learn "morals" from an "immoral" epic???????
Ramayana is for Satya Yuga when people used to follow the path of truth. But the morals are still valid and the ideals can be used for guidance.

Mahabharata or BagawadGita is more about Dharma of dwapara Yuga. As the Yuga changes the Dharma changes. Some time Dharama is a relative term.
 
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Peter

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Okey! Lets debate then. Please list those IMMORAL parts.
I am admitting that both the epics have their own values and qualities. However if there is a question of imparting moral values to children through epics, then the answer is pretty obvious. The Ramayana has a few blemishes but it`s the most morally correct epic. In the case of Mahabharata there are many inappropriate tales like
1)Satyavati and muni Parashar(IMO that dasa lady Satyavati is the main reason of all the chaos). Also Ganga drowning her own children.
2)Vyasa and Ambika
3)Kunti and Madri
4)Yuddhistir gambling with Draupadi

In Ramayana there is only one controversial story as to the reason(curse by Tulsi to Vishnu) why Sita was abducted by Ravana. However in its entirety Ramayana paints a completely different picture. Here a loyal son gives up his life of wealth and comfort just to uphold his father`s words. He forsakes his kingdom and goes to Banavasa willingly. Also Rama never acknowledges the fact that he is "Swayan Bhagabhan". Instead when asked by a muni about his powers he just replies that he is a common man. We see His humility here and that even Gods are humble and not arrogant. Both Lakshmana and Bharata show their affection for Rama in their won ways. We see how siblings in India love each other.The greatest moral that the epic imparts is that parents are always greater than everything and that material wealth should be forsaken for them. In Mahbharata on the other hand the two sides kaurava and Pandavas fight over a petty kingdom.
 
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Ajesh

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Mahabharata was just awesome, you just cannot ignore it. By the what good will be teaching higher morals to kids when you know they will have to deal with lower morals, they might be under prepared to face the world outside
 

Peter

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Mahabharata was just awesome, you just cannot ignore it. By the what good will be teaching higher morals to kids when you know they will have to deal with lower morals, they might be under prepared to face the world outside
I am not saying that Mahabharata should not be read. However in class I Ramayana is the ideal book to be read. Also if Mahabharata is indeed taught it will surely be heavily edited. When the children who will become adults and learn the real deal they will feel they have been taught false things. Any morals that were inculcated to them by the epic will be lost.
(P.S. OT there are reports in many blog sites that the current Mahabharata has been heavily distorted by invaders,evil kings and other mischievous Pandits. Some people believe that the original Mahabharata might have been different from the present one.)
 

Ajesh

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I am not saying that Mahabharata should not be read. However in class I Ramayana is the ideal book to be read. Also if Mahabharata is indeed taught it will surely be heavily edited. When the children who will become adults and learn the real deal they will feel they have been taught false things. Any morals that were inculcated to them by the epic will be lost.
(P.S. OT there are reports in many blog sites that the current Mahabharata has been heavily distorted by invaders,evil kings and other mischievous Pandits. Some people believe that the original Mahabharata might have been different from the present one.)
If You followed Mahabharata closely , You will find the people who represented truth still won at the end of the day, and each and every person who lied or manipulated still got their punishments including Shri Krishna who was killed by a Hunter in the end.

Bottom Line is anybody who have taken a Human Avatar including Gods committed some sort of fallacy except maybe Yudhisther, who might have had kalash in his mind when he said "Ashwathama Hatah".So to Err is Human but the effort should be not to make.
 

Eesh

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The judge was talking of introducing the text to class 1 students. Ramayana is a good book for children of this age. It is IMHO the greatest story ever told as it highlights the great virtues. Also the greatest moral from Ramayana is to love your parents more than yourself(contrary to Jesus Christ saying that love God more than your parents). This idea needs to be embedded in the minds of the children. Of course it is a bit too idealistic.

Now on the topic of Mahabharata. Frankly speaking except for the Gita part of Mahabharata, I find the epic to be of bad taste. I mean it is filled with immoral stories and all sorts of nonsense. Sometimes I think it is not even fit to be called an Indian epic as the lecherous stories told there are only heard in foreign countries. Now one solution is to edit the undesirable parts and present it to children. However the morals that would be inculcated in the children from the tale would be lost when these children would grow up and learn the real deal. After all any Indian adult reading the Mahabharata would hang his head in shame when one looks into the indecency there.

(P.S. Have you read the Mahabharata completely. If you had you will realize why it is not ideal.)
Will you embed this too?

Morality gems from bible.

To be a follower of Jesus you must hate your children.

If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. -- Luke 14:26


For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him. -- Leviticus 20:9

God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death. -- Matthew 15:4

How can you hate your parents and yet not curse them?

Lot, who was a just and righteous man (2 Peter 2:7-8) and therefore a biblical model for fathers everywhere, offered his daughters to a sex-crazed crowd, and then got drunk and impregnated them.

Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes. ...
And the firstborn said unto the younger, Our father is old, and there is not a man in the earth to come in unto us after the manner of all the earth: Come, let us make our father drink wine, and we will lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father. And they made their father drink wine that night: and the firstborn went in, and lay with her father; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose. And it came to pass on the morrow, that the firstborn said unto the younger, Behold, I lay yesternight with my father: let us make him drink wine this night also; and go thou in, and lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father. And they made their father drink wine that night also: and the younger arose, and lay with him; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose. Thus were both the daughters of Lot with child by their father. -- Genesis 19:8, 31-36
 

Ashutosh Lokhande

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Neither Ramayana nor Mahabharata is good or fit for this age. Too many values imparted in those books were archaic and unacceptable in a modern society.

But Gita is and always will be a book or rather a collection of value and ideas that can instil good moral and social value in a society. So. Gita it must be, Ramayana and Mahabharata, lets not.
Agree about the mahabharat part but whats wrong with ramayan? Maybe it can be modified a bit to suit the children(ommiting the sexual references).
 

Peter

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Will you embed this too?
What are you trying to say???
I am telling in my post that Ramayana is better than the Bible. The idea that one should love parents is to be embedded in one`s head. That is the point I am making. You seem to have comprehension issues. I am a a Hindu Brahmin for your info.
 
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Ashutosh Lokhande

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What are you trying to say???
I am telling in my post that Ramayana is better than the Bible. The idea that one should love parents is to be embedded in one`s head. That is the point I am making. You seem to have comprehension issues. I am a a Hindu Brahmin for your info.
I think we should teach mahabharata too along with ramayana but a censored non vulgar version. There are many good values said in mahabharata like respecting your teachers listening to your parents; to side with righteousness; protecting the weak etc etc and theres so much to learn from it. If we teach these values at a young age our future generation they will grow to be wise and rational. Which will help in overall development of an individual hence whole society.
 

Agnostic_Indian

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why should anybody study a religious text in school ? especially if he is not a follower of hinduism or vedas ??
 

Ashutosh Lokhande

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why should anybody study a religious text in school ? especially if he is not a follower of hinduism or vedas ??
First of all you must not see it in religious angle.
They not teaching to worship gods or dieties but just teach them the values and morals from the religious text.

Would you have a problem if your child is taught aspects of gita ramayana and mahabharata about respecting teachers; obeying there parents; to live in a civilised manner and not subscribe to law of jungle where might is right; protecting the weak and poor; to follow the concept of karma; and to always side the with truth and honesty as atlast righteousness always wins over evil. Etc etc.... I can go on and on. Whats harm in teaching them all these good stuff specially todays children whose parents dont get enough time to spend with them and properly teach them these values;ethics and morals. after all it will only help them to be a better person in life and will help them to cope and live in a civilised world.

Good governance + good economy along with good values will make our country what many believe as "ram rajya" where there was no crime; everything was predictable and according to schedule.
 

Agnostic_Indian

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First of all you must not see it in religious angle.
They not teaching to worship gods or dieties but just teach them the values and morals from the religious text.

Would you have a problem if your child is taught aspects of gita ramayana and mahabharata about respecting teachers; obeying there parents; to live in a civilised manner and not subscribe to law of jungle where might is right; protecting the weak and poor; to follow the concept of karma; and to always side the with truth and honesty as atlast righteousness always wins over evil. Etc etc.... I can go on and on. Whats harm in teaching them all these good stuff specially todays children whose parents dont get enough time to spend with them and properly teach them these values;ethics and morals. after all it will only help them to be a better person in life and will help them to cope and live in a civilised world.

Good governance + good economy along with good values will make our country what many believe as "ram rajya" where there was no crime; everything was predictable and according to schedule.
problem is there are people who doesn't believe in ram let alone ram rajya..if you believe in ram rajya you are free to go to the school library and learn the concept, you can even encourage your non Hindu friends to read it.. but i believe introducing it as a part of compulsory education is a bad idea.. then others will demand introduction of bible, koran, etc too..
besides morals and values can also be taught with out bringing in any particular religious texts.
 

Ashutosh Lokhande

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problem is there are people who doesn't believe in ram let alone ram rajya..

Ram was actually a ruler of bharatvarsh
Whats there to not believe? There are records kept of indian rulers since before jesus christ you can try do your individual research a bit; it will help you understand.
If you saying that he was not a god then its upto you to believe. But You cant question his existence itself.

[/QUOTE]if you believe in ram rajya you are free to go to the school library and learn the concept, you can even encourage your non Hindu friends to read it.. but i believe introducing it as a part of compulsory education is a bad idea.. [/QUOTE]

Am not saying to teach or preach hindu religion am saying just to teach the values and morals.


Besides this every indian must know the countries history and culture they living in. Whats the problem if they are taught about indian culture or ancient history in india? Its not like we are teaching it to arabs in UAE or to russians in russia.

You cant say make HISTORY as optional bcoz ram who was also a king is worshipped and treated as god so other religion student are offended.
Will you also say not teach about baba saheb ambedkar? He is also worshipped as god by many. and there are temples dedicated specially to him.

Knowing about our past history;culture;values and way of life(aka hinduism) must be compulsary.



[/QUOTE]then others will demand introduction of bible, koran, etc too..
besides morals and values can also be taught with out bringing in any particular religious texts.[/QUOTE]

If we can teach about good values which can be inculcated from bible and koran along with indian religion text then well and good. But our country is a birthplace and has connection/relation with hinduism and NOT koran or bible.

Let other country teach there values and culture to there children and we should teach our values and culture to our children.
 
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