INSAS Rifle, LMG & Carbine

[patriots]

 

[WolfPack86]

10,000 7.62X39mm TAR for CRPF | 92 7.62X39mm Trica for Kerala Police

 

[WolfPack86]

Bengaluru’s SSS Defence beats Israeli firm, will be first from India to upgrade Army’s AK-47s
New Delhi: Indian small arms firm SSS Defence has defeated Israeli firm Fab Defense, also known as Zahal, to bag a contract to upgrade a limited number of Kalashnikov rifles with a unit of the Indian Special Forces, ThePrint has learnt.

Sources in the defence and security establishment told ThePrint that the Bengaluru-based SSS emerged as the lowest bidder for the tender for upgrading 24 AK-47 rifles in service with a particular unit.

“This is the first time when an Indian company, with its own indigenous design and product, will upgrade a rifle for the Indian Army,” a source said.

Till now, Fab Defense had a monopoly in the Indian market over the upgrade of AK-47s in service with the Army. Different units of the Army have been upgrading their Kalashnikovs to suit modern warfare and Fab Defense has managed to upgrade a few thousand rifles over the last decade.

Sources also pointed out that until now, all the materials needed for upgrades were imported, and the SSS contract could actually open up room for more such deals with a focus on indigenous products.

What the upgrade will bring
The sources said the upgrade would entail a new foldable butt stock for the rifle, a new dust cover that will allow mounting of sights, and changes to the fore end, which will allow mounting of a bipod or a knife when needed, besides hand guard and vertical grip.

Sources said SSS has also offered to upgrade the rifle with a flash hider at no extra cost, since it was not part of the requirements issued by the particular unit of the Army.

Interestingly, while all upgrades by Fab Defense involved parts made of polymer, SSS Defence is offering aerospace alloys, sources said.

As reported by ThePrint, the company is also eyeing a possible contract from the Army for the upgrade of the legendary Dragunov sniper rifle, commonly known in the armed forces as DSR.

The Northern Command has come out with a Request for Proposal for the upgrade of 90 pieces of the nearly three-decade-old rifle, but overall, the Army is estimated to have anywhere between 6,000-7,000 pieces of the DSR.

Bengaluru’s SSS Defence beats Israeli firm, will be first from India to upgrade Army’s AK-47s

Before SSS Defence won this tender, Israel’s Fab Defense had a monopoly on the market, having upgraded a few thousand Army rifles in the past 10 years.

theprint.in

 

[WolfPack86]

RIFLES, AIR DEFENCE GUNS TO BE NOW MADE IN INDIA
The decision of the Ministry of Defence (MoD) to not go ahead with more Sig Sauer rifles adds to the list of weapons and equipment that will now be made in India and not imported.


The Rs 700-crore repeat order for buying 72,400 more rifles was approved in 2020. It is now held back. Now this will be a make-in-India project for Indian private and public sector industries.

Earlier in January, the tender for very short-range air defence (VSHORAD) missiles was held back. This was for the Army and Navy. It was worth over $5.2 billion for 5,175 missiles and 1,276 single and multi-launchers with technology transfer to the defence public sector undertakings (DPSU). This will now be open for Indian companies.

The program to get five regiments of Self-Propelled Air Defence Gun Missile systems worth $3 billion is pending with a negotiation committee.

Also, by the end of this year, the following items will not be imported: Long Range Reconnaissance and Observation System, weapon-locating radar (plain and deserts), upgrade for GRAD (a weapon systems) carrying vehicle, advance infantry floating foot bridge, armour piercing ammunition and the mobile autonomous launcher (BrahMos).

Rifles, Air Defence Guns To Be Now Made In India

The decision of the Ministry of Defence (MoD) to not go ahead with more Sig Sauer rifles adds to the list of weapons and equipment that will...

www.indiandefensenews.in

 

[WolfPack86]

India cancels a big defence contract with the US
The result of the post-covid world has started to be reflected in the policies of India. During the time, every country was saving its interest and imposed a very high embargo on the export of critical goods, leaving the import-dependent country on sinking boats. Learning the lesson, India also decided to be Aatmanirbhar by bringing an overhaul change in its economy, security, and foreign policies.

India cancels Sig Sauer deal
In the latest development of the report, India has decided to do away with a repeat order of about 72,400 SIG SAUER Assault Rifles for the cost of Rs 780 crore. Citing the various operational glitches, the supplement procurement of the Sig Sauer deal has been cancelled.

In early 2019, when India was facing constant border tensions with China & Pakistan and the frequent sniping and shootout along the Pakistan border reflected a deep problem in the guns used by the army. Most of the guns used by the Indian army are Indian-made INSAS (Indian National Small Arms System) and Russian Ak-47. Further, the outdated model and updated fighting conditions created a deep understanding to replace the currently used guns by the army.

But at the instant mass level replacement could not be possible due to the size & selection of weapons. So for the urgent requirement of frontline forces, India through FTP (Fast Track Procurement) decided to procure about 72,400 US-made SIG-716 assault rifles for the emergency use of front-line forces on borders.

The Glitches
According to the sources, the official reason for cancelling the Sig Sauer deal has been attributed to the ‘operational flaws’ such as ‘jamming’ while shooting with the locally procured 7.62 mm cartridges. Further, the reports of very high recoil and damage to the gun while firing have also been cited as the reason. Glitches are one of the reasons for cancelling the Sig Sauer deal; the other reason involved the developing geopolitical situation.

Post covid & Ukraine war, situations have changed around the world & India is now more aggressive in instances of foreign relations. The effort is to develop a strong base of the indigenous defence industry to supply the most of military requirements through domestic vendors & keep the foreign policy independent of any other country’s influence.

Defence Minister Rajnath Singh on the floor of the lower house during the 2022-23 budget discussion said that “out of the allocated budget of the defense ministry – 68% will be used for the purchase of locally produced weapons and systems to boost self-reliance in the defense sector”. His statement is a reflection of the government’s overall push for the Aatmanirbhar Bharat. In furtherance of the philosophy, India wants to be self-sufficient in the supply of critical needs of the country.

Aatmanirbhar in guns production
India, rather than going with American-made guns, will now push for indigenous production of over 7 lakhs guns required for its replacement of INSAS & AK-47. Concerning this, the updated model of AK-47, over 6 lakhs AK 203 assault rifles are to be manufactured at Amethi (UP).

With the complete technology transfer, the joint venture of the state-owned company Advanced Weapons & Equipment India Ltd and Russian Rosoboronexport, the Indo Russian Rifles Private Ltd will be manufacturing the whole lot of 6 lakhs AK 203 and in future will export to other friendly countries.

The other company which is ready to disrupt the both US and Russian guns market in India is the domestic Indian company SSS Defence (Stumpp Schuele & Somappa Group Company). The company has already won the contract to upgrade the AK-47 of the Indian Army’s special forces. With its AK UPGRADE KIT, the old engineered guns will be attached with the latest technology & accessories kits like tactical buttstock, cheek rest, and putt pad. Further, the Night sights, UBGL (Under Barrel Grenade Launcher), torches, or laser aiming devices are also made compatible with the veteran AK-47.

Moreover, the company is also ready to supply its flagship products like the 338 Saber Sniper Rifles and the P-72 assault rifles which form the major inventory of the military’s guns.

The cancellation of the Sig Sauer deal may be attributed to the combined geopolitical situations around the world, the latest push for Indigenous technology by the government of India, and the glitches in the US-made guns. The earlier philosophy of import will exit the procurement policy and transfer the technology & made in India making Aatmanirbhar will be the guiding philosophy of the Indian policy of procurement.

India cancels a big defence contract with the US

According to the sources, the official reason for cancelling Sig Sauer deal has been attributed to the ‘operational flaws’ such as ‘jamming’.

tfipost.com

 

[Lonewarrior]

Further, the reports of very high recoil and damage to the gun while firing have also been cited as the reason.

As if bullet failing to exit the bore was not audacious enough; they now introduced "so much recoil that the gun's damaging itself".

 

[Blademaster]

As if bullet failing to exit the bore was not audacious enough; they now introduced "so much recoil that the gun's damaging itself".

Look... the GoI is trying to get out of the Sig Sauer contract so they can have an indigenous gun factory. After the shit that US, NATO, and EU pulled, we can't exactly rely on the western nations for functionally core weapons.

 

[Marliii]

Look... the GoI is trying to get out of the Sig Sauer contract so they can have an indigenous gun factory. After the shit that US, NATO, and EU pulled, we can't exactly rely on the western nations for functionally core weapons.

Also add russia too

 

[Lonewarrior]

Look... the GoI is trying to get out of the Sig Sauer contract so they can have an indigenous gun factory. After the shit that US, NATO, and EU pulled, we can't exactly rely on the western nations for functionally core weapons.

I think the whole issue here is two folds. What we're witnessing is the combination of these two.

1. Army don't want more rifles, whatever the reason is. It can be anything from cost to geopolitical ramifications to change in doctrine.
2. Local firms and foreign firms too are perfectly milking this opportunity and doing hitjob on SIG.

 

[Blademaster]

I think the whole issue here is two folds. What we're witnessing is the combination of these two.

1. Army don't want more rifles, whatever the reason is. It can be anything from cost to geopolitical ramifications to change in doctrine.

The reason is more basic. They just found out the cost of the ammo necessary to service these guns and got a sticker price shock when they saw the bill for these ammos. They tried to use other ammos which were cheaper but could not withstand Sig Sauer's exacting standards.

2. Local firms and foreign firms too are perfectly milking this opportunity and doing hitjob on SIG.

Don't blame them. It is a very lucrative contract.

 

[Javelin_Sam]

This AK deal with Russians is just geopolitik and was thrust upon us by Russians itself is what i believe.

 

[Lonewarrior]

They just found out the cost of the ammo necessary to service these guns and got a sticker price shock when they saw the bill for these ammos. They tried to use other ammos which were cheaper but could not withstand Sig Sauer's exacting standards.

How can the quality of ammo suddenly become so bad?
We have been producing Mil-Spec 7.62x51mm since I don't know how many decades. And we had no issues with our FALs.

From a technical point of view there isn't much difference in the ammo related problems in FAL and an AR. The only difference is the problem that will occur in a FALs gas block will happen inside an AR's bolt carrier group.

 

[Aditya Ballal]

How can the quality of ammo suddenly become so bad?
We have been producing Mil-Spec 7.62x51mm since I don't know how many decades. And we had no issues with our FALs.

From a technical point of view there isn't much difference in the ammo related problems in FAL and an AR. The only difference is the problem that will occur in a FALs gas block will happen inside an AR's bolt carrier group.

Short Stroke FAL being able to handle the Indian made ammo better that a DI SIG 716?

 

[Blademaster]

How can the quality of ammo suddenly become so bad?
We have been producing Mil-Spec 7.62x51mm since I don't know how many decades. And we had no issues with our FALs.

From a technical point of view there isn't much difference in the ammo related problems in FAL and an AR. The only difference is the problem that will occur in a FALs gas block will happen inside an AR's bolt carrier group.

I strongly suspect that it’s on the part of Sig Sauer to force IA to use its ammo. They don’t make their profits from the guns but from the ammo. By creating a gun that forces the user to use their ammo and no one else they hoped to put IA in a bind and keep purchasing ammo from them. That’s my theory.

 

[Aditya Ballal]

I strongly suspect that it’s on the part of Sig Sauer to force IA to use its ammo. They don’t make their profits from the guns but from the ammo. By creating a gun that forces the user to use their ammo and no one else they hoped to put IA in a bind and keep purchasing ammo from them. That’s my theory.

All small arms companies who own ammunition companies or have tie ups do this, usually in the US it’s not a problem since there is not much difference/variation between the various reputed ammunition brands, but when you come here it’s probably going to cause potential problems.

 

[Lonewarrior]

I strongly suspect that it’s on the part of Sig Sauer to force IA to use its ammo. They don’t make their profits from the guns but from the ammo. By creating a gun that forces the user to use their ammo and no one else they hoped to put IA in a bind and keep purchasing ammo from them. That’s my theory.

DI ARs regularly eat Wolf and Tula ammo. Definitely the fouling increases substantially, more failure to extract malfunctions occurs and the mean time between maintanence decrease. But in no case there is a malfunction where a bullet fails to exit and the second one is fired resulting in catastrophic failure.

So are we now making ammo worse than even Tula!?

 

[Lonewarrior]

Short Stroke FAL being able to handle the Indian made ammo better that a DI SIG 716?

That's the only thing which can be concluded from all these articles.

 

[vishnugupt]

I strongly suspect that it’s on the part of Sig Sauer to force IA to use its ammo. They don’t make their profits from the guns but from the ammo. By creating a gun that forces the user to use their ammo and no one else they hoped to put IA in a bind and keep purchasing ammo from them. That’s my theory.

Quiet possible, because our general can go any extent for import.

Imagine how pathetic their thinking is? They Imported a Rifle which get jammed merely firing OFB produced ammunition. So does UN Generals believe We can fight a war with imported bullets??

Did our UN Generals considered availability of ammunition while evaluating SiG riffle for mass procurement?? Ofcourse not.

Generals conveniently put India where there we have to import even a basic necessity of a war.. even a bullet. In short, our UN general clearly Jeopardize our security during Laddakh standoff specially if war would have been broke out.

 

[vampyrbladez]

I think the whole issue here is two folds. What we're witnessing is the combination of these two.

1. Army don't want more rifles, whatever the reason is. It can be anything from cost to geopolitical ramifications to change in doctrine.
2. Local firms and foreign firms too are perfectly milking this opportunity and doing hitjob on SIG.

It's more due to the cost of the weapon sights. India recently approved 1400 crore as per the DPB to buy ~ 29760 II sights for Sig 716i which is less then half of the Army's quota for 66,400 out of the 72,400 guns ordered and double the price (700 crore) of the actual rifles.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ti...t-improved-night-fighting-capabilities/843741

A repeat order was just not feasible.

When you try to use high velocity machine gun ammo with extra powder in a rifle barrel in full auto, you can't blame anyone but yourself for barrel bulge issues on some rifles.

Also until the Russia-Ukraine war, the file was still moving slowly even past the CNC stage right to the CFA one but sanctions and an erratic US foreign policy sealed the fate of the deal.

SSS has shown they can make a decent AR-15. It's not a huge leap to make an AR-10.

 

[Lonewarrior]

When you try to use high velocity machine gun ammo with extra powder in a rifle barrel in full auto, you can't blame anyone but yourself for barrel bulge issues on some rifles.

Okay

I'm seeing this "high power machine gun ammo" argument from past few days and still can't wrap my head around it.

Once we used to have two platforms; FAL and Bren/MAG; so we developed two different loadings and both in same dimensions for each weapon.
And issued them to a fire team with three FALs and one MAG. And why did we do so?
So that the FAL guys can borrow a round from the assistant gunner and Kaboom his rifle!


This is OFB's only 7.62x51mm offering; standard M-80 ball. The max pressure is way below the maximum threshold of NATO.

This was the case with INSAS. We used to have two different loadings for same 5.56x45mm cartridge; one NATO and one INSAS.

When did this happen for 7.62x51mm?