INSAS Indian Small Arms System

[Logan]

yeah it appears as it has changeable barrels like the vidhwansak (Anti material rifle) if you want to use in anti terror use 7.62 if for regular army role use the 5.56 and for special role use 6.8.

Interesting ,,,,but let me ask though that whether it will be given to the Para's or the general infantry too???

 

[Logan]

And what about the aquisition of MSMC in the forces,,i read a report which states BSF is seeking new carbines,,,will MSMC get a chance to compete or yet another foreign import is on the cards..??
Also no news on the status of development of the Multicaliber weapon except a few vague photos and few speculation I think the matter is highly classified !!!

 

[Kunal Biswas]

I wonder why armed forces insist on UBGLs the size and shape of M203. Why not use something more compact like the Russian-made GP-30?

Does IA use GP-25/30? They're compatible with AKs. Is it that its barrel is too short (for range)?

Present UBGL of IA is GP-30/25, Insas UBGL will provide IA more powerful rounds with better accuracy..

 

[Logan]

Shall the new UBGL given to the entire infantry or some special division???

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Shall the new UBGL given to the entire infantry or some special division???

First thing, it would be issued to frontal units RR, If successful there it would be issued to Regulars as well as SF..

 

[Logan]

What is this bullpup,,found it on the NSG gallery...

.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

What is this bullpup,,found it on the NSG gallery...

.

Its most powerful bullpup, fires 7.62Nato in semi-mode, forward case ejecting system..
Its call KAL-TECH RFB!

 

[Tshering22]

Whoa

How is it no one took a picture of that board.

Look behind the Gun guys , you can clearly see the F-INSAS systems , including the gun. Which appears to have
*bullpup design
*Under Barrel grenade launcher
*Standard Scope sights
*laser range finder

it also clearly shows that the gun is being developed by

*Armament Research & Development Establishment (ARDE)



*High Energy Materials Research Laboratory (HEMRL)



*Defence Metallurgical Research Laboratory (DMRL)



Sadly the New MSMG obstructs most of the remaining image but you can still clearly make out evidence of a Sighting System being developed by the

Instruments Research & Development Establishment (IRDE)



You can also make out that the Smart Vest seems to be developed by
Defence Bioengineering and Electromedical Laboratory (DEBEL)



While you cant make out Clearly. The Protective clothing seems to be Developed By

Defence Materials and Stores Research and Development Establishment (DMSRDE)


Defence Institute of Physiology & Allied Sciences (DIPAS)



The Communications and Network equipment seems to be developed by

Centre for Artificial Intelligence and Robotics (CAIR)


Defence Electronics Application Laboratory (DEAL)



And Last we have a very odd Lab, which has nothing to do with Communication's equipment, But instead is a Missile research lab. founded By our very own Missile Man ,A.P.J Abdul Kalam.

I am posting extra info so members can try to guess what exactly is RCI doing on the F-INSAS project.

Research Center Imarat (RCI)


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The Weapons System also looks very similar to what you see in this video



Army is making a lot of uncharacteristic progress as of late

The grenade launchers

New grenades

Army orders 1 million pieces of grenade developed by DRDO's Chandigarh lab

They could seriously come up with some good names. Sanskrit is such a beaultifully complete language. Shivalik is already the name of a stealth warship of ours. Also, don't you think 1 million pieces of the new grenade is a little less? That'd equate to roughly 1 grenade per soldier. :happy_2:

 

[gogbot]

They could seriously come up with some good names. Sanskrit is such a beaultifully complete language. Shivalik is already the name of a stealth warship of ours. Also, don't you think 1 million pieces of the new grenade is a little less? That'd equate to roughly 1 grenade per soldier. :happy_2:

Yeah i agree 1 million grenades is very small. But it is still a sizable amount. Enough to at least have some stores.
But the fact that they ordered some now , most likely means more order may come.

 

[Logan]

The 1 million grenade order is may be just a beginning of the things to come.........But am really confused whether the F-INSAS gun i would be eventually a bullpup or a conventional design......

 

[Logan]

Why The Indian Infantry Are Irritated
by James Dunnigan
March 14, 2010

India is under increasing pressure, from below, to honor promises to upgrade the weapons and equipment of the infantry forces. These troops have fallen far behind other armies, and the troops, and especially their officers, are not being quiet about it. But government plans to upgrade infantry weapons and equipment have not amounted to much. The troops are not happy with this.
The government has already, with great fanfare, announced an effort to design and create its own version of the U.S. Army Land Warrior system. Countries around the world have been designing, trying out, and testing similar combat systems for over ten years now, including Britain, France, and Germany. The Indian effort is not going well.

While India spends a lot of money on its fighter aircraft, naval vessels, and heavy ground equipment like tanks and APCs, very little is spent on taking care of the infantry. This isn't unique to the Indians, it just happens that the infantry historically doesn't get first grab at funds within the military and are usually at the bottom of the totem pole.

The Indians are trying to change that by building an ambitious Infantry-Soldier-As-A-System (INSAS). One of the major things the Indians want to build as part of the program is a domestically produced multi-caliber individual weapon and a programmable airbursting grenade launcher for the infantry. This is basically the exact same thing that the U.S. Army's OICW (Objective Individual Combat Weapon) was supposed to be. The Indians are hoping their weapon will be more successful. But so far, progress, much less success, has been scarce.

Other plans include introducing new anti-tank weaponry, laser rangefinders, a new carbine/submachine gun, new combat uniforms for the infantry, better communications, and improved body armor. The new platform, the Indians are hoping, will reduce the load carried by the individual soldier by 50 percent. The helmet device the Indians are designing is equipped with video cameras, thermal sensors, and a visor set-up that contains two computer monitors. Plans to issue each infantryman with a "palmtop" computer are a high priority. But there's little to show for all these ambitious plans.

The Indians currently have 28 line (non-specialist) infantry regiments and 28 infantry divisions total when the 10 specialized mountain divisions are included. The Indians also have 7 separate infantry brigades along with 4 RAPID (Re-organized Army Plains Infantry) Action divisions. This totals 359 infantry battalions, plus 66 paramilitary units that need better gear to deal with terrorism. The entire army numbers around 1,325,000 active soldiers with another 1,800,000 troops in reserve. Despite the massive amounts of money the Indians are spending on their military, equipping all 28 infantry regiments with the new system (which hasn't been designed or manufactured yet) by 2020 is already being recognized by members of the Indian military as a major drain on resources, and not really possible. Even for a wealthy country like France or the US, completely re-equipping 28 regiments with entirely new weapons and gear is an expensive and lengthy proposition.

Most of the Indian sergeants and junior officers, trained in the practical and common sense tradition of the British Army, would be happier with more modest goals, like an improved assault rifle, better boots, and body armor that actually stops bullets, rather than with a computerized infantry system that shoots around corners and gives the troops instant message capabilities. In particular, better load bearing gear and better quality rations tend to be high on the list of wants for the foot soldier, especially in a country like India.

The sergeants and junior leaders are also smart enough to realize that the country is getting ahead of itself. The Indian Army, for example, only introduced their current standard assault rifle, the 5.56mm INSAS (Indian National Small Arms System) during the late 1990s and even this weapon has yet to be issued to every soldier in the Army, particularly in reserve units. About 300,000 are currently in circulation in the Army, including the carbine and light machine gun versions. Older equipment is still in use and, in a country like India, introducing and issuing any kind of new weapons or gear to every single soldier in the Army is an expensive, lengthy, and often difficult task.

Seven years ago, the government attempted a stopgap. They spent $65 million over the next four years to train and equip a commando ("Ghatak") platoon for each of its infantry battalions. The new platoons were intended to make the infantry more effective in dealing with irregulars in Kashmir and the northeast tribal areas. The Ghatak troops would be trained to perform commando type operations (raids, long range patrols), especially at night. Thus one of the things the Ghatak troops will get will be night vision equipment. There will also be more radios, probably including individual radios. There will also be additional weapons (sniper rifles, more compact assault rifles, day/night scopes) as well. The Ghatak training enabled the troops to specialize in the more dangerous aspects of dealing with irregulars, thus making duty against irregulars less unpopular with the troops. This program gave India another 12,000 commando type soldiers. In addition to the Ghatak units, $62 million was spent to equip engineers with better mine detection and clearing equipment, as well as equipment for detecting and disabling all manner of explosive devices irregular forces use in ambushes. The mines and booby traps are, as can be imagined, bad for troop morale, and this program is expected to be even more popular than the Ghatak platoons.

The 20 man Ghatak platoons gave each battalion some shock troops, but it also increased discontent among the rest of the troops, who could now see modern equipment up close, and wonder why they didn't have it. The army also added modern equipment to units in crucial areas, like Kashmir, where soldiers fighting Islamic terrorists from Pakistan, got night vision gear and better radios to deal with the situation. But for the rest of the infantry, second best was all they could expect.


Why The Indian Infantry Are Irritated

 

[jatkshatriya]

my version of F-INSAS

 

[jatkshatriya]

well,,its not very ambitious....the only things that are a lill ambitious are active cameouflage and direct energy weapon...i guess the rest are already being researched upon and are in advanced stages of research in many countries...if india seriously pursues it with private partnership it can be achieved in the next 8 to 10 years

 

[jatkshatriya]

ah one more thing...about the knives yeah ..even thats a bit ambitious..actually very ambitious....see what i imagined is the edge is not a single piece..infact its more like two converging plates with miniscule space between them ..that space hosts nano generators that can generate super hot plasma....when activated and slashed through even metal can cut through metal....yeah thats very ambitious but i would love to have such a knife that can cut through exo skeletons in direct combat

 

[sayareakd]

first try to have fire & water proof cloths with mosquito repellent treatment. Then have some quick clot build into cloths inner side to stop bleeding. That is the basic for cloths.

Direct energy weapons can be mounted on INSAS so same can be mounted on FINSAS

now what sort of scanner you can mount on helmet ???

UAVs and small robo vehicles are ok

 

[jatkshatriya]

first try to have fire & water proof cloths with mosquito repellent treatment. Then have some quick clot build into cloths inner side to stop bleeding. That is the basic for cloths.

Direct energy weapons can be mounted on INSAS so same can be mounted on FINSAS

now what sort of scanner you can mount on helmet ???

UAVs and small robo vehicles are ok

ahh that laser dazzler..its not a lethal weapon...i meant a real direct energu weapon that can go boom boom..haha....well ofcourse the clothing is fire and water proof if its NBC proof(cant mention every minute detail)...yeah i already mentioned the clothing has nanobots for first aid...well that grenade is an AI unmanned grenade..u throw it..it unfolds mid air..lands on its legs...hunts for the enemy( goes boom when in range)...well by sensors i meant a sensor that can detect minute changes in light deflections due to depths...i am not a science expert so not being able to convey what i mean..hope u understand.

 

[gogbot]

well,,its not very ambitious....the only things that are a lill ambitious are active cameouflage and direct energy weapon...i guess the rest are already being researched upon and are in advanced stages of research in many countries...if india seriously pursues it with private partnership it can be achieved in the next 8 to 10 years

ah one more thing...about the knives yeah ..even thats a bit ambitious..actually very ambitious....see what i imagined is the edge is not a single piece..infact its more like two converging plates with miniscule space between them ..that space hosts nano generators that can generate super hot plasma....when activated and slashed through even metal can cut through metal....yeah thats very ambitious but i would love to have such a knife that can cut through exo skeletons in direct combat

ahh that laser dazzler..its not a lethal weapon...i meant a real direct energu weapon that can go boom boom..haha....well ofcourse the clothing is fire and water proof if its NBC proof(cant mention every minute detail)...yeah i already mentioned the clothing has nanobots for first aid...well that grenade is an AI unmanned grenade..u throw it..it unfolds mid air..lands on its legs...hunts for the enemy( goes boom when in range)...well by sensors i meant a sensor that can detect minute changes in light deflections due to depths...i am not a science expert so not being able to convey what i mean..hope u understand.

Most of what your suggesting is just Sci-fi. "Ambitious" is a euphemism

This stuff is beyond Human technology , not just Indian design or engineering.
Let's not go off topic , with these shall we.

But to be fair , some of your idea's can exist in most realistic forms.
Rather than AI controlled grenades , we can have some sort of smart grenade. With controlled detonation.
Hand held lethal DEW's are decades away , but Non-lethal ones would be nice add-on to the guns.

 

[jatkshatriya]

Most of what your suggesting is just Sci-fi. "Ambitious" is a euphemism

This stuff is beyond Human technology , not just Indian design or engineering.
Let's not go off topic , with these shall we.

But to be fair , some of your idea's can exist in most realistic forms.
Rather than AI controlled grenades , we can have some sort of smart grenade. With controlled detonation.
Hand held lethal DEW's are decades away , but Non-lethal ones would be nice add-on to the guns.

as i told plasma edged knives, active cameoflage and strong lethal direct energy weapons are the only things that i feel are very ambitious, still ambitious only not beyond science...as direct energy weapons have already been made compact enough to be fitted on small ships and aircrafts by the US...still making it compact enough to be fitted on a gun is ambitious i agree..but still by no means beyond our technology...active cameoflage has already been researched to a great extent by the japs but still it will take some time before induction....plasma edged knives are the ones u can say beyond our tech at present....exoskeletons have been tested with US military and will soon be inducted..those exo skeletons pose no hindrance in free human movement and allow a soldier to carry much more load as compared to a human without one...anti mine shoes are being inducted in indian army itself..rest all the things i mentioned are well in advanced stage of development....abt AI grenades wellwhats so futuristic abt them....US already has AI missiles where they feed diff images of the target and possible location of the target...on reaching the possible target area the missile CPU compares the diff targets with the loaded images and decides accordingly...Four limb mini robo designs are in very advanced stages of research with the japs....the mini HOVERING UAV has already been developed by an IITisn firm...hope i have answered all ur queriees...cheers

 

[sayareakd]

guys please be practical, plus you guys dont understand how IA work, remember they have chosen regular INSAS when bullpup version were available.

 

[jatkshatriya]

guys please be practical, plus you guys dont understand how IA work, remember they have chosen regular INSAS when bullpup version were available.

yeah man i understand..indian army does not have the funds or the will to undertake such a program...but just imagine if in the next decade we could arm even 1 lakh of our soldiers with that ( minus direct energy weapons and plasma edged blades)..still those soldiers would be like walking demi gods against the chinese and the pakis...cheers :angry_1: