INS Vishal (IAC- II) Aircraft Carrier - Flattop or Ski Jump

[aditya10r]

I would say that it is very disappointing. It must have been nuclear powered to have more efficient operating ability and reliance on Indian fuel.

I wonder why nuclear carrier was rejected.

It was rejected simply because nuke carrier would have costed some 8-9 billion usd compared to 4-5 billion usd on this one.

We can build nuke carriers onwards from post this project,let BARC come up with a good powerful reactor and navy comes up with a good design.

 

[Kshithij]

It was rejected simply because nuke carrier would have costed some 8-9 billion usd compared to 4-5 billion usd on this one.

We can build nuke carriers onwards from post this project,let BARC come up with a good powerful reactor and navy comes up with a good design.

Why would a nuclear carrier coat so much when USA is building 1lakh ton carriers at 5 billion USD?

Moreover, the diesel engine is imported isn't it? So, diesel carriers must cost more

 

[aditya10r]

Why would a nuclear carrier coat so much when USA is building 1lakh ton carriers at 5 billion USD?

Moreover, the diesel engine is imported isn't it? So, diesel carriers must cost more

USS Gerald Ford costs over 12 billion usd without aircrafts.

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[TPFscopes]

Why would a nuclear carrier coat so much when USA is building 1lakh ton carriers at 5 billion USD?

Yup, Ford class carrier was planned for $5 bn but it costs more than $14 bn

Congressional Research Service. p. 4. Retrieved 8 February 2014. FY14 cost of CVN-79 (procured in FY13) in then-year dollars; the same budget puts the cost of CVN-78 (procured in FY08) at $12,829.3 million but that includes ~$3.3bn of development costs. CVN-80 is estimated at $13,874.2m, making the total cost of the first three Fords $38,041.9m, or $12.68bn each.

https://fas.org/sgp/crs/weapons/RS20643.pdf

Or we can simplified as $12.8 billion + $4.7 billion R&D (estimated)

Moreover, the diesel engine is imported isn't it? So, diesel carriers must cost more

I remember that we discussed it earlier..

 

[Kshithij]

Yup, Ford class carrier was planned for $5 bn but it costs more than $14 bn

https://fas.org/sgp/crs/weapons/RS20643.pdf

Or we can simplified as $12.8 billion + $4.7 billion R&D (estimated)




I remember that we discussed it earlier..

I am speaking of Nimitz class carriers. It cost 5 billion each.

 

[binayak95]

I am speaking of Nimitz class carriers. It cost 5 billion each.

The Nimitz series were built from 1975 onwards. You adjust the prices according to inflation and present-day price comes around 8.5 billion USD. That is without the EMALS and the new generation arresting gear. Quite a lot expensive.

The IN is going for IEP to power the EMALS. Sensible in all aspects. Gives time for nuke reactors to be miniaturized for the SSBNs and SSNs - a priority.

Also lends credence to the fact that we might be looking at LEU naval reactors aka Rubis and Barracuda class.

 

[TPFscopes]

I am speaking of Nimitz class carriers. It cost 5 billion each.

you are talking about 1970s when CVN-68 costs nearly what you stated..

General Characteristics, Nimitz class
Builder: Huntington Ingalls Industries Newport News Shipbuilding Co., Newport News, Virginia
Date Deployed: May 3, 1975 (USS Nimitz).
Unit Cost: About $8.5 billion in constant year FY 12 dollars.
Propulsion: Two nuclear reactors, four shafts.
Length: 1,092 feet (332.85 meters).
Beam: 134 feet (40.84 meters); Flight Deck Width: 252 feet (76.8 meters).
Displacement: Approximately 97,000 tons (87,996.9 metric tons) full load.
Speed: 30+ knots (34.5+ miles per hour).
Crew: Ship's Company: 3,000-3,200, air wing: 1,500, other: 500.
Armament: Multiple NATO Sea Sparrow, Phalanx CIWS and Rolling Airframe Missile (RAM) mounts.
Aircraft: Approximately 60+.

http://www.navy.mil/navydata/fact_display.asp?cid=4200&tid=200&ct=4

if you want to calculate the cost in FY2020, it will exceed $9.5bn due to inflation and this all without EMALS and AAG.

Good Day..

 

[aditya10r]

First off a nuke carrier would have been useful if we had to operate faaaaar beyond IOR,I don't see Indian Navy going beyond IOR for a next decade.

Secondly-how sane is the idea to spend over 15 billion usd running a aircraft carrier when we have a budget of 60 billion only and other sister forces are deprived of funds.

Thirdly-let DRDO BARC navy come up with a good indigenous solution to this-5 billion usd is wayyyyyy too high.

Fourthly-lets focus on building a fire-breathing economy like 10 trillion USD plus and military spending little over 3.33%.(it is less than 2.5% today)

Only post this we can dream of having a dominant blue water navy in IOR.

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[Filtercoffee]

Personally, I feel the Navy could order two more Vikrant class carriers and by then B.A.R.C could release a reactor series which fits the next class. 3 working 1 in refit. Also the 4 amphibian carriers wouldve started with the 1st carrier being released, so 'semi - blue' wouldve been achieved. If we only wait for Vishal class to mature, we have a great series carrier design with all the '20 teen' requirements on paper fitted. I hope for the perfect fleet.

 

[TPFscopes]

Personally, I feel the Navy could order two more Vikrant class carriers and by then B.A.R.C could release a reactor series which fits the next class. 3 working 1 in refit. Also the 4 amphibian carriers wouldve started with the 1st carrier being released, so 'semi - blue' wouldve been achieved. If we only wait for Vishal class to mature, we have a great series carrier design with all the '20 teen' requirements on paper fitted. I hope for the perfect.

Presently, Navy has the plan to have only 3 ACC, 2 for regular operations and 1 as maintenance reserve. As yesterday, IN chief said that ioc-2 will be a flatbed with Catapult launch is enough to speculate that there will be no Vikrant class in future. Along with this there will be Russian jet on future carriers as well...

IN should have to finance reactor development which is also not in picture... We have to wait for the final approval of CCS on navy proposal. So need to wait n watch.

 

[aditya10r]

Presently, Navy has the plan to have only 3 ACC, 2 for regular operations and 1 as maintenance reserve. As yesterday, IN chief said that ioc-2 will be a flatbed with Catapult launch is enough to speculate that there will be no Vikrant class in future. Along with this there will be Russian jet on future carriers as well...

IN should have to finance reactor development which is also not in picture... We have to wait for the final approval of CCS on navy proposal. So need to wait n watch.

I think Indian Navy will go for IOC 2 type of configuration for IOC-3(assuming IOC-3 enters service post 2035).

Only then we would go after nuke powered+emals+aag aircraft carrier.

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By 2040 we would be economically sound and be a powerful to afford construction of 2 aircraft carriers simultaneously and have good enough research and production base.

IOC-4 and post that will be nuke powered and emals capable only.

@TPFscopes how many aircrafts can this IOC 2 carry???

Given we are partnering with us and they have very good knowledge about aircraft carrier design so I guess it will be 60-70 jets plus helicopters compared to 40 on ins Vikramaditya and Vikrant.

I just want riim air defenese system and mf star type of radar on this.

That will make this vessel the best in Asia.

 

[Kshithij]

I think Indian Navy will go for IOC 2 type of configuration for IOC-3(assuming IOC-3 enters service post 2035).

Only then we would go after nuke powered+emals+aag aircraft carrier.

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By 2040 we would be economically sound and be a powerful to afford construction of 2 aircraft carriers simultaneously and have good enough research and production base.

IOC-4 and post that will be nuke powered and emals capable only.

@TPFscopes how many aircrafts can this IOC 2 carry???

Given we are partnering with us and they have very good knowledge about aircraft carrier design so I guess it will be 60-70 jets plus helicopters compared to 40 on ins Vikramaditya and Vikrant.

I just want riim air defenese system and mf star type of radar on this.

That will make this vessel the best in Asia.

IAC-2 will have 50 aircrafts as per its design and size.

How do you know about 2035 and 2040? Do you have a reason behind your prediction? Also, why do you think USA is a partner?

I am pissed off that when oil is running out, these people are acting funnily by inducting diesel aircraft carriers. We will have to use coal liquefaction to feed these ships.

 

[TPFscopes]

I think Indian Navy will go for IOC 2 type of configuration for IOC-3(assuming IOC-3 enters service post 2035).

Only then we would go after nuke powered+emals+aag aircraft carrier.

_________________________________________

By 2040 we would be economically sound and be a powerful to afford construction of 2 aircraft carriers simultaneously and have good enough research and production base.

IOC-4 and post that will be nuke powered and emals capable only.

@TPFscopes how many aircrafts can this IOC 2 carry???

Given we are partnering with us and they have very good knowledge about aircraft carrier design so I guess it will be 60-70 jets plus helicopters compared to 40 on ins Vikramaditya and Vikrant.

I just want riim air defenese system and mf star type of radar on this.

That will make this vessel the best in Asia.

IAC-2 itself has timeline for 2035 and will have 65t displacement with 50-55 aircrafts (jets+helicopters+probably UAVs)

For IAC-3, I may expect it only as Vikramaditya's replacement and IAC-4 too farther projection, so I'm not worried about IAC-4,5,6....

 

[aditya10r]

IAC-2 itself has timeline for 2035 and will have 65t displacement with 50-55 aircrafts (jets+helicopters+probably UAVs)

For IAC-3, I may expect it only as Vikramaditya's replacement and IAC-4 too farther projection, so I'm not worried about IAC-4,5,6....

I have a strong feel that ins Vikramaditya will serve till 2050+.

At least 40 years and navy has a dominant role in affecting the politics of your neighbours so I believe indian navy will increase the number of projected aircraft carriers,but that will only happen after 2030 or so.

I don't think Indian Navy will stick to just 3 carriers,it will increase the numbers to keep up with Chinese in IOR and to dominate IOR.

 

[TPFscopes]

I have a strong feel that ins Vikramaditya will serve till 2050+.

At least 40 years and navy has a dominant role in affecting the politics of your neighbours so I believe indian navy will increase the number of projected aircraft carriers,but that will only happen after 2030 or so.

I don't think Indian Navy will stick to just 3 carriers,it will increase the numbers to keep up with Chinese in IOR and to dominate IOR.

even IAC-3 will not be available before 2044-45 if work will get started from 2035 (just after the completion of IAC-2).

And asa far as china is concerned, they will be threat from entire region than why we would extensively invest in building these giant machines when we need more subs and DDGs. ACC requirements will be fulfilled with US and others in any case of chinese invasion. Its my personal view.

 

[aditya10r]

even IAC-3 will not be available before 2044-45 if work will get started from 2035 (just after the completion of IAC-2).

And asa far as china is concerned, they will be threat from entire region than why we would extensively invest in building these giant machines when we need more subs and DDGs. ACC requirements will be fulfilled with US and others in any case of chinese invasion. Its my personal view.

United states is not a reliable ally.

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Only in gulf war of 1990 and only when oil trade was threatened it has never helped it's ally.

No intervention in SCS in the early days like 2011,trump asking for more from their Japanese and Korean counterparts in SCS.

We cannot trust them blindly.

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They are good enough for technical support and economical stuff but nothing much.

 

[Kshithij]

IAC-2 itself has timeline for 2035 and will have 65t displacement with 50-55 aircrafts (jets+helicopters+probably UAVs)

For IAC-3, I may expect it only as Vikramaditya's replacement and IAC-4 too farther projection, so I'm not worried about IAC-4,5,6....

Tell me more about 2035. I am wondering how are you so confident about the future dates without even having made any proper analysis of any parameters, historical evidences, fundamental analysis of today's world and economy, culture and self respect etc?

Just focus till 2025.

 

[TPFscopes]

United states is not a reliable ally.

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Only in gulf war of 1990 and only when oil trade was threatened it has never helped it's ally.

No intervention in SCS in the early days like 2011,trump asking for more from their Japanese and Korean counterparts in SCS.

We cannot trust them blindly.

__________________________________________

They are good enough for technical support and economical stuff but nothing much.

This may become off topic, #mods are requested to move it to a desired thread.

Its not a matter that US are reliable or not, but they will have to participate just to secure themselves and their allies (SK, Japan and others).
China is increasing their military in reference with the US military power, they are taking India as a serious threat..
China is really feared with US because there are more or less enhanced their military reach for upto chine door and still trying to enhance its coverage by taking up NK.

Do you remember, why US sent their USS enterprise for Indo-Pak bilateral conflict. Scenario and locations are changed but the intentions are still and will remain same..

 

[aditya10r]

This may become off topic, #mods are requested to move it to a desired thread.

Its not a matter that US are reliable or not, but they will have to participate just to secure themselves and their allies (SK, Japan and others).
China is increasing their military in reference with the US military power, they are taking India as a serious threat..
China is really feared with US because there are more or less enhanced their military reach for upto chine door and still trying to enhance its coverage by taking up NK.

Do you remember, why US sent their USS enterprise for Indo-Pak bilateral conflict. Scenario and locations are changed but the intentions are still and will remain same..

Let's see only time can answer these questions.

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[WolfPack86]

I think Indian Navy might go for steam catapult for INS Vishal for saving cost.