INS Vikrant Aircraft Carrier (IAC)

[Johny_Baba]

beyond LCA(MK1, MK1A, MK2) and AMCA(MK1, MK2),
as and when IN complete their TEBDF, will it be available for IAF as well (minus foldable wings and reinforced landing gear) ?

View attachment 169974

(crossposting from another thread)

yes and it's called Omni-Role Combat Aircraft = ORCA

but before getting excited over it let me kopy-paste what an esteemed member from the forum itself was informed about ORCA when he himself asked about it to a test pilot of LCA project himself during some temporary meetup at Lucknow airport
"I was having conversation with one of test pilots involved in LCA program . He simply called TEDBF as pipe dream . Eventually Navy will ask for F-18 in 2026/2027" - in February, 2020

so if TEDBF doesn't happen then forget about ORCA

some additional stuff from that chatter
- "He said even follow on order of 36 Rafale looks tough now . He said Rafale is very expensive for IAF and IN"
- "N LCA at it's current avatar can easily carry 4 derby and 2 R73"

 

[omaebakabaka]

(crossposting from another thread)

yes and it's called Omni-Role Combat Aircraft = ORCA

but before getting excited over it let me kopy-paste what an esteemed member from the forum itself was informed about ORCA when he himself asked about it to a test pilot of LCA project himself during some temporary meetup at Lucknow airport
"I was having conversation with one of test pilots involved in LCA program . He simply called TEDBF as pipe dream . Eventually Navy will ask for F-18 in 2026/2027" - in February, 2020

so if TEDBF doesn't happen then forget about ORCA

some additional stuff from that chatter
- "He said even follow on order of 36 Rafale looks tough now . He said Rafale is very expensive for IAF and IN"
- "N LCA at it's current avatar can easily carry 4 derby and 2 R73"

Sure, so I guess since we aren't capable of building it on our own nor buy then we can close our defence establishment and call it done. If we could not afford Rafale then why even go for it in the first place? Who operates defence procurement without a path forward from financial aspects like this? I call this at best pessimistic opinion of test pilot but since chaos and inaction is prevalent in our "secular(only anchored agenda)" country, it is certainly one possibility of doing nothing.

 

[Cheran]

In case not posted, the video

 

[MonaLazy]

Looking at the close fit on lift & also the hanger entry below deck for F-18 or Rafale M



& how the -29K really is the perfect fit for our carriers



a thought occurred to me. Why don't we plonk a couple of F414s into -29K, replace its landing gear with one planned for TEDBF, spruce up its cockpit w/ large MFDs, modernize LRUs & other on-board computers, etc. Basically TEDBF-ize the mig & voila! you have a 90% TEDBF available 10 years earlier, assuming 3-4 years to test the new mig-29K config.

If Russian IP gets in the way- buy those rights. Isn't it a better solution to the fighter air wing problem than either Rafale M or F-18? Either of which will be an extremely tight fit ensuring scraping accidents every now and then or else immediate work to expand the lift/hangar entry.

 

[Okabe Rintarou]

Looking at the close fit on lift & also the hanger entry below deck for F-18 or Rafale M



& how the -29K really is the perfect fit for our carriers



a thought occurred to me. Why don't we plonk a couple of F414s into -29K, replace its landing gear with one planned for TEDBF, spruce up its cockpit w/ large MFDs, modernize LRUs & other on-board computers, etc. Basically TEDBF-ize the mig & voila! you have a 90% TEDBF available 10 years earlier, assuming 3-4 years to test the new mig-29K config.

If Russian IP gets in the way- buy those rights. Isn't it a better solution to the fighter air wing problem than either Rafale M or F-18? Either of which will be an extremely tight fit ensuring scraping accidents every now and then or else immediate work to expand the lift/hangar entry.

That would be the ultimate diplomatic flex if India could pull of mating a Russian airframe with an American engine for an Indian carrier right in the middle of Russo-Ukrainian war. But the MiG-29K has problems with cracks in the airframe itself, so not a lasting solution anyways. And if Americans can sell us Superhornets by denying this plan, they will do so. Moreover, TEDBF is coming, so anything like that needs to happen ASAP because right now we are looking for a stop gap. And stop gaps need to work today, not require more testing.

 

[Blademaster]

a thought occurred to me. Why don't we plonk a couple of F414s into -29K, replace its landing gear with one planned for TEDBF, spruce up its cockpit w/ large MFDs, modernize LRUs & other on-board computers, etc. Basically TEDBF-ize the mig & voila! you have a 90% TEDBF available 10 years earlier, assuming 3-4 years to test the new mig-29K config.

If Russian IP gets in the way- buy those rights. Isn't it a better solution to the fighter air wing problem than either Rafale M or F-18? Either of which will be an extremely tight fit ensuring scraping accidents every now and then or else immediate work to expand the lift/hangar entry.

Won't work. The problem of the 29k is the spine of the 29k. It can't hold up that well after the stress of slamming down on the deck and being launched at full afterburner on a daily basis.

It is like the Tank Ex saga where they tried to plonk an Arjun turret on a T-72 chassis. The problem is when the Arjun gun was fired, the T-72 chassis could not handle the recoil or the heavy weight of the turret. It was a non starter.

 

[MonaLazy]

MiG-29K has problems with cracks in the airframe itself

The problem of the 29k is the spine of the 29k. It can't hold up that well after the stress of slamming down on the deck and being launched at full afterburner on a daily basis.

Then to the earlier plan add a consultancy with ADA to sort out airframe issues via simulations and strengthen the airframe where required.

 

[Okabe Rintarou]

Then to the earlier plan add a consultancy with ADA to sort out airframe issues via simulations and strengthen the airframe where required.

TEDBF will be a much better idea. Its a delta planform, with much higher payload and bring back capacity. TEDBF can also serve far longer without the need for band aid solutions on the MiG-29Ks. Once you add NLCA features like Magic Carpet and Automatic Hands Free Takeoff on TEDBF, it will be much better jet. Worth the effort, albeit a 5th gen would have been better.

 

[omaebakabaka]

That would be the ultimate diplomatic flex if India could pull of mating a Russian airframe with an American engine for an Indian carrier right in the middle of Russo-Ukrainian war. But the MiG-29K has problems with cracks in the airframe itself, so not a lasting solution anyways. And if Americans can sell us Superhornets by denying this plan, they will do so. Moreover, TEDBF is coming, so anything like that needs to happen ASAP because right now we are looking for a stop gap. And stop gaps need to work today, not require more testing.

Its SH or Mig29k really till tedbf if and when it comes along.....IAC-1 followup if it exists can correct the lift size and future proofed....not the end of the world scenario considering its first mostly home built. Anyone that expected more perfection is not being realistic.

 

[abingdonboy]

And even PLAN is in for a massive surprise in a few years time. They are gonna face massive shortfall of experienced crew (already are tbh) and on top of that will have a large portion of the fleet be due for repair/overhaul all at the same time.

I have heard similar things- because they’ve put all their yards to simultaneous production they haven’t got the capacity to conduct in-dock maintenance for all of them when they come about at the same time.

that said it could just be standard hopium, the Chinese aren’t idiots and they plan things out long term so they could very easily have contingency plans for that. Every time analysts wrote off Chinese they have overcome. They are single minded and results driven. The amount of subs designs they created in a decade is more than IN has ever operated.

 

[abingdonboy]

Modi’s PR team are slick, they make videos these days worthy of the office

 

[abingdonboy]

Looking at the close fit on lift & also the hanger entry below deck for F-18 or Rafale M



& how the -29K really is the perfect fit for our carriers



a thought occurred to me. Why don't we plonk a couple of F414s into -29K, replace its landing gear with one planned for TEDBF, spruce up its cockpit w/ large MFDs, modernize LRUs & other on-board computers, etc. Basically TEDBF-ize the mig & voila! you have a 90% TEDBF available 10 years earlier, assuming 3-4 years to test the new mig-29K config.

If Russian IP gets in the way- buy those rights. Isn't it a better solution to the fighter air wing problem than either Rafale M or F-18? Either of which will be an extremely tight fit ensuring scraping accidents every now and then or else immediate work to expand the lift/hangar entry.

The problem with the Ks is structural and baked into it. There’s no amount of re-engineering to fix these fundamental issues.

IN bought a dud without carrying out any tests themselves

the same IN that won’t order ALH-NUH because of a slightly over engineered blade folding mechanism.

 

[no smoking]

And even PLAN is in for a massive surprise in a few years time. They are gonna face massive shortfall of experienced crew (already are tbh)

This is not a surprise at all. It is natural phenomenon when you are quickly expanding your fleet. They have expand their military academy before that. For a period of time, there are too many officers on the ships. Now these redundant officers finally have their own ships. All they need is the time to train. The good thing is that they are given time.

and on top of that will have a large portion of the fleet be due for repair/overhaul all at the same time.

It is a planning and management issue. There are 2 keys here: money and industrial capacity. In the foreseeable future, they won't be short of either.

 

[Clairvoyance]

Modi’s PR team are slick, they make videos these days worthy of the office

The new naval jack looks way better in the wind than as a still picture.

 

[dfcool]

Useless media.

Does india need aircraft carries?

 

[Javelin_Sam]

(crossposting from another thread)

yes and it's called Omni-Role Combat Aircraft = ORCA

but before getting excited over it let me kopy-paste what an esteemed member from the forum itself was informed about ORCA when he himself asked about it to a test pilot of LCA project himself during some temporary meetup at Lucknow airport
"I was having conversation with one of test pilots involved in LCA program . He simply called TEDBF as pipe dream . Eventually Navy will ask for F-18 in 2026/2027" - in February, 2020

so if TEDBF doesn't happen then forget about ORCA

some additional stuff from that chatter
- "He said even follow on order of 36 Rafale looks tough now . He said Rafale is very expensive for IAF and IN"
- "N LCA at it's current avatar can easily carry 4 derby and 2 R73"

What nonsense? Who is this 'test pilot' genius who said that N LCA can carry 4 derby and 2 R73? Even the IAF Tejas won't carry such a payload. Technically it could be possible. But the drag and combat radius will be limited exponentially such that any decent mission will not be possible.
Now the N-LCA have to take of from a ski-jump on its on engine power with all these payload? Not even in dreams. Even the MiG 29k will not take of with such a oayload. N-LCA test pilot Mao sir himself has cleared that N-LCA is heavy and not powerful enough to carry significant payload from a ski jump to conduct any significant combat missions.

 

[NutCracker]

What nonsense? Who is this 'test pilot' genius who said that N LCA can carry 4 derby and 2 R73? Even the IAF Tejas won't carry such a payload. Technically it could be possible. But the drag and combat radius will be limited exponentially such that any decent mission will not be possible.
Now the N-LCA have to take of from a ski-jump on its on engine power with all these payload? Not even in dreams. Even the MiG 29k will not take of with such a oayload. N-LCA test pilot Mao sir himself has cleared that N-LCA is heavy and not powerful enough to carry significant payload from a ski jump to conduct any significant combat missions.

We can use 1 mig29k as buddy refueller for multiple NLCA till f18s come

I would've suggested MQ-25 ,but they will not come in service till 2025.

 

[Narasimh]

So per saurabh Joshi, F-18 has huge advantage over rafale.
- can carry 4 anti ship harpoons, rafale only single exocet
- suphornets comes as single and double seat variant, rafale double seat cant operate from deck
- lift fits for hornet well
- carrier landings much easier with PLM
I see no reason for navy to go with rafale now

 

[Marliii]

So per saurabh Joshi, F-18 has huge advantage over rafale.
- can carry 4 anti ship harpoons, rafale only single exocet
- suphornets comes as single and double seat variant, rafale double seat cant operate from deck
- lift fits for hornet well
- carrier landings much easier with PLM
I see no reason for navy to go with rafale now

But but sir airforce has it navy should buy what airforce buys that's common sense according to some guys here

 

[scatterStorm]

(crossposting from another thread)

yes and it's called Omni-Role Combat Aircraft = ORCA

but before getting excited over it let me kopy-paste what an esteemed member from the forum itself was informed about ORCA when he himself asked about it to a test pilot of LCA project himself during some temporary meetup at Lucknow airport
"I was having conversation with one of test pilots involved in LCA program . He simply called TEDBF as pipe dream . Eventually Navy will ask for F-18 in 2026/2027" - in February, 2020

so if TEDBF doesn't happen then forget about ORCA

some additional stuff from that chatter
- "He said even follow on order of 36 Rafale looks tough now . He said Rafale is very expensive for IAF and IN"
- "N LCA at it's current avatar can easily carry 4 derby and 2 R73"

I on this very forum wrote that F18 will be picked out if we are looking for a naval fighter way back some few years ago. I think we are taking defense affairs diplomatically, like make happy Russian, make happy Muricunts.