INS Vikrant Aircraft Carrier (IAC)

[Marliii]

I hope we are not that stupid.

Well buying something would be smarter having nothing on an aircraft carrier

 

[Blademaster]

Well buying something would be smarter having nothing on an aircraft carrier

The smartest decision would be going full speed on the TEDBF/ORCA program. That would completely replace the Rafales and be a safe backup option to the Su-30s should they retire before AMCA program is ready.

It is my opinion that due to the timelines involved, IAF/GoI should go ahead on full speed on the TEDBF/ORCA program and update the AMCA from a 5th generation fighter to 6th generation and close that generation gap.

Everyone else would be coming out with a 6th generation fighter by the time the AMCA fighter is ready for induction and IAF would still seriously be behind.

To counter PLAAF's stealth capabilities, buy 33-35 AWACS platforms on A330 frames, buy 1200 LCA Mk2s and even Mk3s (Mk3s would be lighter more advanced materials and better aerodynamic features) and 600 TEDBFs to replace all the existing Russian and French planes and push the AMCA program into the 6th generation fighter phase and buy 12 more S-400 batteries and build a crap load of Green Pine radar types around the country and build heavy jammers. Buy 5k-6k worth of long range Astra missiles. This would completely negate any stealth capabilities that PLAAF has over IAF. Sure IAF would lose more planes in the sky but PLAAF would never achieve air superiority over the skies in the amount of time that any Indo-China conflict would play out. It would save tons of money in foreign exchanges and keep the money in India and build a robust defense industry that India can rely on through any time.

If necessary, buy 144 Su-57s with Indian avionics to counter the PLAAF's stealth edge. Otherwise every fighter should be indigenous.

 

[NutCracker]

Absolutely zero chance

110% IT WILL BE SUPER HORNET.

we will make another Nuke powered carrier with catobar that will have wing of 50.

Mig29K will go to islands( they can take off with full capacity) and Super hornets will be transferred to VIkramaditya.

and order of 80+ for Vikrant and Catobar AC.

 

[Dark Sorrow]

I hope we are not that stupid.

Why?
We use P8I, MQ-9 Sea Guardian, Sikorsky SH-60 Seahawk and are planning to induct MQ-4C Triton.
F-18 Super Hornet Bk. 3 will integrate seamless in all the above platforms.
The Block III Super Hornet comes with advanced networking and open architecture design that allows it to work jointly with the Indian Navy's P-8I and other US-origin assets.
Open architecture design also will enable IN to integrate Indian weapons and communicate with other Indian naval assets.
Rafale will have problem with all above capabilities.
F-18 Super Hornet is currently the most proven system for naval operation and it seems to satisfy our requirement.

 

[Dark Sorrow]

Super hornets will be transferred to VIkramaditya.

I doubt that. F-18 Super Hornet will have operational difficulties in Vikramadatya.

 

[NutCracker]

I doubt that. F-18 Super Hornet will have operational difficulties in Vikramadatya.

1 year long major overhaul in every 6 years. I think those difficulties can be rectified.

As you already said we operate several surveillance aircrafts from US.

Edit-
I dont know about dimensions fof those F***ng lifts.

 

[Dark Sorrow]

The smartest decision would be going full speed on the TEDBF/ORCA program. That would completely replace the Rafales and be a safe backup option to the Su-30s should they retire before AMCA program is ready.

It is my opinion that due to the timelines involved, IAF/GoI should go ahead on full speed on the TEDBF/ORCA program and update the AMCA from a 5th generation fighter to 6th generation and close that generation gap.

TEDBF is just on paper, its design review/specification has not yet been competed/decided.
INS Vikrant will be commissioned soon and will be operational requiring real aircraft.
IN is done with Mig-29K and doesn't want any more for their newer platform hence Super Hornet and Rafale are our only 2 options.

Everyone else would be coming out with a 6th generation fighter by the time the AMCA fighter is ready for induction and IAF would still seriously be behind.

We also have started working on 6th generation technologies. AMCA Mk. 2 will incorporate them along with FUFA.
One doesn't need brand new aircraft to absorb 6th generation technologies.

To counter PLAAF's stealth capabilities, buy 33-35 AWACS platforms on A330 frames, buy 1200 LCA Mk2s and even Mk3s (Mk3s would be lighter more advanced materials and better aerodynamic features) and 600 TEDBFs to replace all the existing Russian and French planes and push the AMCA program into the 6th generation fighter phase and buy 12 more S-400 batteries and build a crap load of Green Pine radar types around the country and build heavy jammers. Buy 5k-6k worth of long range Astra missiles. This would completely negate any stealth capabilities that PLAAF has over IAF. Sure IAF would lose more planes in the sky but PLAAF would never achieve air superiority over the skies in the amount of time that any Indo-China conflict would play out. It would save tons of money in foreign exchanges and keep the money in India and build a robust defense industry that India can rely on through any time.

From where do you get these ideas bro?

If necessary, buy 144 Su-57s with Indian avionics to counter the PLAAF's stealth edge. Otherwise every fighter should be indigenous.

Su-57 is dead horse and failed project as per IAF. No point re-discussing it.

 

[Dark Sorrow]

1 year long major overhaul in every 6 years. I think those difficulties can be rectified.

As you already said we operate several surveillance aircrafts from US.

Edit-
I dont know about dimensions fof those F***ng lifts.

I found the lifts in Vikramaditya placed weirdly. It seems to be defect in design on our part.

 

[Javelin_Sam]

TEDBF is somewhere in paper. It will be at the least 2035 when Navy gets the initial squadrons to raise an air wing.

 

[Javelin_Sam]

TEDBF is somewhere in paper. It will be at the least 2035 when Navy gets the initial squadrons to raise an air wing. And these are not some idlis and dosas in making for GoI to just speed up the project by summoning and firing at ADA or Navy by the stroke of a pen. Sometimes i wonder some of the handles in this forum are high school kids.

 

[jai jaganath]

The smartest decision would be going full speed on the TEDBF/ORCA program. That would completely replace the Rafales and be a safe backup option to the Su-30s should they retire before AMCA program is ready.

It is my opinion that due to the timelines involved, IAF/GoI should go ahead on full speed on the TEDBF/ORCA program and update the AMCA from a 5th generation fighter to 6th generation and close that generation gap.

Everyone else would be coming out with a 6th generation fighter by the time the AMCA fighter is ready for induction and IAF would still seriously be behind.

To counter PLAAF's stealth capabilities, buy 33-35 AWACS platforms on A330 frames, buy 1200 LCA Mk2s and even Mk3s (Mk3s would be lighter more advanced materials and better aerodynamic features) and 600 TEDBFs to replace all the existing Russian and French planes and push the AMCA program into the 6th generation fighter phase and buy 12 more S-400 batteries and build a crap load of Green Pine radar types around the country and build heavy jammers. Buy 5k-6k worth of long range Astra missiles. This would completely negate any stealth capabilities that PLAAF has over IAF. Sure IAF would lose more planes in the sky but PLAAF would never achieve air superiority over the skies in the amount of time that any Indo-China conflict would play out. It would save tons of money in foreign exchanges and keep the money in India and build a robust defense industry that India can rely on through any time.

If necessary, buy 144 Su-57s with Indian avionics to counter the PLAAF's stealth edge. Otherwise every fighter should be indigenous.

Pese ped pe ugte hai kya sirji

 

[SanjeevM]

The smartest decision would be going full speed on the TEDBF/ORCA program. That would completely replace the Rafales and be a safe backup option to the Su-30s should they retire before AMCA program is ready.

It is my opinion that due to the timelines involved, IAF/GoI should go ahead on full speed on the TEDBF/ORCA program and update the AMCA from a 5th generation fighter to 6th generation and close that generation gap.

Everyone else would be coming out with a 6th generation fighter by the time the AMCA fighter is ready for induction and IAF would still seriously be behind.

To counter PLAAF's stealth capabilities, buy 33-35 AWACS platforms on A330 frames, buy 1200 LCA Mk2s and even Mk3s (Mk3s would be lighter more advanced materials and better aerodynamic features) and 600 TEDBFs to replace all the existing Russian and French planes and push the AMCA program into the 6th generation fighter phase and buy 12 more S-400 batteries and build a crap load of Green Pine radar types around the country and build heavy jammers. Buy 5k-6k worth of long range Astra missiles. This would completely negate any stealth capabilities that PLAAF has over IAF. Sure IAF would lose more planes in the sky but PLAAF would never achieve air superiority over the skies in the amount of time that any Indo-China conflict would play out. It would save tons of money in foreign exchanges and keep the money in India and build a robust defense industry that India can rely on through any time.

If necessary, buy 144 Su-57s with Indian avionics to counter the PLAAF's stealth edge. Otherwise every fighter should be indigenous.

Good advice. But IAF will push back. They won't place more orders of anything.

 

[Blademaster]

TEDBF is just on paper, its design review/specification has not yet been competed/decided.

The gestation period would not be that long as the LCA program or the AMCA program because no stealth characteristics would be incorporated.

INS Vikrant will be commissioned soon and will be operational requiring real aircraft.
IN is done with Mig-29K and doesn't want any more for their newer platform hence Super Hornet and Rafale are our only 2 options.

Mig-29s would serve the purpose for the time being until TEDBF comes online.

We also have started working on 6th generation technologies. AMCA Mk. 2 will incorporate them along with FUFA.
One doesn't need brand new aircraft to absorb 6th generation technologies.

Yes you do because 6th generation type calls for adaptive engine and ability to supercruise at a higher speed while maintaining stealth.

And the timeline does not work out in AMCA's favor.

From where do you get these ideas bro?
View attachment 167995

You are presuming that we pay for these in dollars. Not the case. We are paying for it in rupees and we can print them out like the US did to pay for its weapon programs. No foreign exchange needed.

Su-57 is dead horse and failed project as per IAF. No point re-discussing it.

It is up and flying and doing combat missions which can be more than said about the AMCA program. It is not even projected to fly until 2030s which by that time, the Su-57 will be a fully matured program with all its shortcomings ironed out. At that time IAF still has no 5th generation fighters and US would never sell the F-35s as long as S-400 remains integrated to India's air defense network. IAF brass will change their minds in due time.

 

[Blademaster]

TEDBF is somewhere in paper. It will be at the least 2035 when Navy gets the initial squadrons to raise an air wing. And these are not some idlis and dosas in making for GoI to just speed up the project by summoning and firing at ADA or Navy by the stroke of a pen. Sometimes i wonder some of the handles in this forum are high school kids.

You can use the LCA program as a starting point. That was the whole point of TEDBF. To use the LCA program as a baseline to create a fighter that can use 2 engines and share some common elements. That was the idea behind Mirage 4000 where they would use a Mirage 2000 airframe and put in two engines. It would shorten the design gestation period and incorporate the latest avionics at that time.

 

[Blademaster]

Pese ped pe ugte hai kya sirji

Money does not grow on trees and yet US seem able to print gazillions of dollars to fund its weapon programs. India can do the same thing with its rupees and fund its own weapon programs without needing to use its foreign exchange reserves.

If you make your fighters 100% indigenous and on cutting edge, a lot of countries would sign up for it and you will get your value back.

Do not be too shortsighted.

 

[Arjun Mk1A]

If necessary, buy 144 Su-57s with Indian avionics to counter the PLAAF's stealth edge. Otherwise every fighter should be indigenous.

My friend even with Russian avionics they are not ready to allow to us check the cockpit or ready to give access to on board systems software. How are we going to incorporate the Indian Tech in this SU - 57

 

[Blademaster]

My friend even with Russian avionics they are not ready to allow to us check the cockpit or ready to give access to on board systems software. How are we going to incorporate the Indian Tech in this SU - 57

If that's the case, then forget about the Su-57s then. Russian avionics are crap.

 

[Blademaster]

Good advice. But IAF will push back. They won't place more orders of anything.

Then tell the IAF brass to prepare for retirement without pensions or benefits. That will quickly bring them under heel.

 

[Arjun Mk1A]

If that's the case, then forget about the Su-57s then. Russian avionics are crap.

This is truth man. Sukhoi literally asked us give some 100 million and on the other hand when HAL asked for inspection of Prototype they just declined it.

AMCA is the future. AMCA with GE or AMCA with SAFRAN-GTRE engine. With Central and Side weapons bay.

 

[Javelin_Sam]

You can use the LCA program as a starting point. That was the whole point of TEDBF. To use the LCA program as a baseline to create a fighter that can use 2 engines and share some common elements. That was the idea behind Mirage 4000 where they would use a Mirage 2000 airframe and put in two engines. It would shorten the design gestation period and incorporate the latest avionics at that time.

You didn't get the point yet. The issue is not about design. The issue is the time after first flight to operational deployment. Even the Tejas in Mark 2 form will have first flight by 2023, then another 4 years for development, testing and certification (as per ADA itself) and then it needs to get into the hands of IAF TPs, TACDE and then operational deployment. That is atleast by 2029 if everything goes by plan.
TEDBF is an even more radical design step up. It will have to do the entire IOC, FOC from scratch. From a projected first flight(again as per the designers itself) in 2026, it is not coming anytime sooner