INS Vikrant Aircraft Carrier (IAC)

[Maharaj samudragupt]

Considering our approach is defensive and reactive, we should better spend on economy than military expansion. I’m not even joking.

Pak has better spending criteria on military

 

[vishnugupt]

IAF is notorious in changing requirements and specs for Tejas. If not for Parikkar Tejas wouldn't have made it into IAF squadrons.
Army is on another level of stupidity. They do needless endless trials for indigenous weapons and accept faulty failed weapons as import. (Israel ATAGS is one example) and rifle procurement is another level of stupidity ( watered down AK-203 deal isn't concluded with Russia). Also IAF and army fought for Apaches to such extent MoD split the deal as separate procurement 22 for IAF and 6 for Army. Now army wants more Apaches so don't want to order indigenous LCH and IAF wants entire Army aviation under their control also demanded Navy aviation to be under IAF. This mess is too complicated and God knows how they will operate under proposed unified theatre commands.

This is not we alone who are so much frustrated by these tantrums of armed forces recently CDS slapped air chief by saying IAF "a support wing" to bring him out of hangover.

 

[Haldilal]

Considering our approach is defensive and reactive, we should better spend on economy than military expansion. I’m not even joking.

Ya'll Nibbiars are we spending any significant capital expenditure?. Ab isme se kua katane walo ho?.

 

[Gandaberunda]

The Only logic IN have for third AC is, One AC for Arabian sea, one for bay of Bengal and at maintanence dock! Who give such chutiya logics? Only our Armed forces...

The simple for AC vs Submarine is..... A submarine can sail alone, a destroyer can sail alone but could a AC sail alone??? Never... So logically we should focus now on Submarines

And the present carriers facing not only aircrafts shortage issues but CBG issue as well. Vikramaditya currently doesn't have a submarine in its CBG. One of the scorpene is made to sail in CBG only during exercise with other navy's. Also CBG with destroyer corvette Frigate tanker is weaker compared to other navy's. I've never seen Vikky with its full CBG deployed as it doesn't venture out outside of its home port with CBG!
Only during 2019 Vikky was forward deployed as per IN release and God knows how it was deployed.

 

[WARREN SS]

I don’t think so, ORCA is just TEDBF‘s IAF variant which will not require much money for R&D, considering Indian Navy needs 45 Aircraft per carrier (Vikky and Vikku) and 65-70 for INS Vishal including trainers and ground base deployment and standby or replacement aircrafts for replacing under maintenace aircrafts etc, TEDBF orders are going to be huge. So IAF variant will be also bought which will help sustain the programme, and will encourage much more innovation on existing design considering that the upcoming era is going to be of 4+++ or 5- generation semi stealth aircrafts to complement the more advanced 5th gen aircrafts, as an all 5th gen aircraft fleet will be too expensive to buy, maintain and operate, that’s why USAF is also going for a clean sheet 5- gen aircraft to complement 5th gen aircrafts, basically 4++ gen aircrafts will be Infantry, 5- gen will be Ghatak Platoon, and 5th gen will be Special Forces. So ORCA has a bright future.

Like I Said all this money will be wasted if we have to ultimately Rely on western engines

AMCA or any future indigenous aircraft
Success will solemnly rely on this aspect only

It doesn't matter
after MWF india will be able to design any 4.5 generation aircraft indigenously period

Rather channeling money into statergic project we are wasting it in into stop gap projects like OCRA

The amount we are spending on Engines R&D is peanuts what Chinese are investing

All Aviation giants invested heavily on Engines first
Making aircarft development second part.

India also needs Funding for Drones
We are outpaced by small nation like turks in this aspect

With No indigenous operational Heavy MALE UCAV available
We are pathetic and even inferior to Porkis in few years
As they are getting TOT from Chinks in few years

Sorry to say our priority when it comes to R&D is pathetic to even porks.

 

[Gandaberunda]

This is not we alone who are so much frustrated by these tantrums of armed forces recently CDS slapped air chief by saying IAF "a support wing" to bring him out of hangover.

According to IAF anything that flies above ground should come under their command and CDS statement was wrt to forming integrated commands and theatre commands. Indian navy will lose lot of power/hold if peninsula command is formed to IAF/ army but will gain lot in north areas in Himalayas which IAF doesn't want to concede ( Like how P8i doing Recee in Ladhak under command of IN now). This behaviour triggered CDS to release such statement also IAF is breathing down CDS neck right from Tejas to MMRCA to rafales and doesn't like CDS being from army.

 

[FalconSlayers]

Like I Said all this money will be wasted if we have to ultimately Rely on western engines

AMCA or any future indigenous aircraft
Success will solemnly rely on this aspect only

It doesn't matter
after MWF india will be able to design any 4.5 generation aircraft indigenously period

Rather channeling money into statergic project we are wasting it in into stop projects like OCRA

The amount we are spending of Engines R&D is peanuts what Chinese are investing

All Aviation giants invested heavily on Engines first
Making aircarft development second part.

India also needs Funding for Drones
We are outpaced by small nation like turks in this aspect

With No indigenous operational Heavy MALE UCAV available
We are are pathetic and even inferior to Porkis in few years
As they are getting TOT from Chinks in few years

Sorry to say our priority when it comes to R&D 8s pathetic to even porks.

I know, we won’t get our own engine as it’s obvious that RR will never let it’s potential huge market to be lost, or they’ll charge royalty for every engine we produce, they’ll never give ToT or any sort of IPR.

 

[vishnugupt]

And the present carriers facing not only aircrafts shortage issues but CBG issue as well. Vikramaditya currently doesn't have a submarine in its CBG. One of the scorpene is made to sail in CBG only during exercise with other navy's. Also CBG with destroyer corvette Frigate tanker is weaker compared to other navy's. I've never seen Vikky with its full CBG deployed as it doesn't venture out outside of its home port with CBG!
Only during 2019 Vikky was forward deployed as per IN release and God knows how it was deployed.

One Submarine for a CBG is sufficient only if whole CBG is on the land. In a contested area 1CBG need atleast four Attack submarine so at this ratio our 3 AC will eat up all submarines.

 

[vishnugupt]

I know, we won’t get our own engine as it’s obvious that RR will never let it’s potential huge market to be lost, or they’ll charge royalty for every engine we produce, they’ll never give ToT or any sort of IPR.

Infact we will get "Only" our own engine as no-one is going to give us engine technology. This is a fact which is known to MoD, DRDO, PMO and Academia except Armed forces. I firmly believe India will have its own engine by 2035 as government is planning to build a engine complex.
Never pay attention to words like "We don't have money" this is something we have been hearing since 1947 for each and every program.

 

[Maharaj samudragupt]

We need a anti navy navy , aka one which sinks ships.
Ship borne ballistic missiles.etc

 

[Maharaj samudragupt]

Instead focus on things like railguns , they requiere massive power though.
Agar navy ko itna hi paisa hai to invest in railguns

 

[Echo1Charlie]

Our Armed forces are in competition with each other for stupidity. It's like if one arm did a stupidity other automatically take it as a challenge and replicate it in even more bigger way. Few peculiarities as following....
IAF constantly ignoring large fleet of MKi and making them obsolete while continuously pursuing imaginary 114 jets. Sometime these 114 jets fall in medium category and sometimes into light. Despite of 36 Rafale these 114 numbers remaining the same.
Following the IAF, IN came into action and demanding 3rd AC for no reason ( because India doesn't have offensive posture against anyone) Submarine are vital as they provide credible second strike capability which is needed right now.
Seeing her sister organization, IA swing into action and buying only 6 Apache while ignoring LCH. Now days Army is only rewriting specifications of Armata tank as a next requirement.

AMCA has enough money, infact none of our project facing cash crunch but problem is HAL want to upgrade Su-30mki in house which is IAF is apposing in favour of continue kickback money flow.

If someone can remember HAL Tejas had in-flight refueling prob back in 2009. But seeing this IAF immediately change the goal post asked for Cobham and this led to maximum delay in Tejas FOC.

Completely agree with the Armata part; if they don't want FMBT they should state it straight and go for T14 but what they are doing is wasting tax payer's money. Loot at Arjun's fate - out gunned T90 but struggling to get domestic order; on the other hand army is upgrading million if not billion dollar imported monkey model T90s with systems developed for Arjun! If the gov give a go sign again they would be more than happy to import anther 450 or more t90s only to upgrade in India

 

[Maharaj samudragupt]

Completely agree with the Armata part; if they don't want FMBT they should state it straight and go for T14 but what they are doing is wasting tax payer's money. Loot at Arjun's fate - out gunned T90 but struggling to get domestic order; on the other hand army is upgrading million if not billion dollar imported monkey model T90s with systems developed for Arjun! If the gov give a go sign again they would be more than happy to import anther 450 or more t90s only to upgrade in India

Tell me about those upgrades ? Tell me about those t 90 upgrades please

 

[Echo1Charlie]

Tell me about those upgrades ? Tell me about those t 90 upgrades

As far as I learned Indian T90s are upgraded with India ERA, Indian Smoothbore and subsystems of Arjun according to published source

 

[Maharaj samudragupt]

As far as I learned Indian T90s are upgraded with India ERA, Indian Smoothbore and subsystems of Arjun according to published source

Tell me the sources , please tell me .
I want to read more.

 

[Echo1Charlie]

Tell me the sources , please tell me .
I want to read more.

Although obscure this gives the hint (https://www.news18.com/blogs/india/...s-main-battle-tank-programs-10879-748711.html) Plus more information regarding ERA could be found at DRDO websites and publications

 

[Maharaj samudragupt]

Although obscure this gives the hint (https://www.news18.com/blogs/india/...s-main-battle-tank-programs-10879-748711.html) Plus more information regarding ERA could be found at DRDO websites and publications

Good , inafCt splendid .
Now just upgrade t 90s with aps , then it's good to go

 

[vishnugupt]

As far as I learned Indian T90s are upgraded with India ERA, Indian Smoothbore and subsystems of Arjun according to published source

You just underestimated our kickback hungry generals. This is a fact, Arjun is first tank in Army which is fully air-conditioned, having automatic 12.5mm machine gun but for T-90 upgrade everything is imported from Russia. Same like Su-30mki deal, despite of full ToT we still have to import most of parts from Russia.
Our Armed forces don't sign deals without Dalaals.

 

[Narasimh]

So we have to wait for another year or two to get the aviation complex integrated. So the fighter operations may be evaluated after commissioning only.

 

[arkos]

So we have to wait for another year or two to get the aviation complex integrated. So the fighter operations may be evaluated after commissioning only.

These aren't user acceptance trials. Commissioning is still away.