INS Vikrant Aircraft Carrier (IAC)

[scatterStorm]

SH18-B3 is the best piece of naval military's hardware you can buy currently. Its preferred over F35 too. However, we would have to redesign our current aircraft carrier to 90K tons to have the power projection to be effective. Because then you'd be able to hold more SH18-B3s.

 

[Bhurki]

Knowing the issue in the hand why were they allowed to participate and why did they participate when its not going to fit

Because it is probably going to fit on IAC
And navy might have thought they can push through to modify Vikramditya

 

[Bhurki]

SH18-B3 is the best piece of naval military's hardware you can buy currently. Its preferred over F35 too. However, we would have to redesign our current aircraft carrier to 90K tons to have the power projection to be effective. Because then you'd be able to hold more SH18-B3s.

Lol wth... 90k tons?!

 

[Bhurki]

A summary of Mig29k numbers in Indian Navy-
K - single seat
KuB - dual seat

Batch 1 - 12K + 4KuB
Batch 2 - 25K + 4KuB

Crashed or lost - 2K + 1KuB (1 single seat from Batch 1)

Existing inventory - 35K + 7KuB = 42

 

[scatterStorm]

Lol wth... 90k tons?!

Correct me if I am wrong, Ford class carrier hs 100K long tons of displacement?

 

[Bhurki]

Correct me if I am wrong, Ford class carrier hs 100K long tons of displacement?

Yeah, but redesign a 40,000 ton to 90,000 tons ?!? WTH!

 

[scatterStorm]

Yeah, but redesign a 40,000 ton to 90,000 tons ?!? WTH!

Agreed, redesign isn't the option, forgive me, a proper way to put this would be to construct a new class of standalone AC.

 

[Thunderbolter]

A little comparison -

T/W with full internal fuel and no stores -
Aircraft - Max Thrust /(Empty wt+ Int Fuel)

Rafale M - 15,000 / 10,600 + 4400 = 1.0
F-18SH - 20,000 / 14,500 + 6500 = 0.95
Mig29K - 17,600 / 11,000 + 4500 = 1.13

If a minimum T/W of 0.9 is required to take off with safe limits from a Stobar, then max combat load (extra fuel, armaments) allowed -
Rafale - (1.0- 0.9) x 15,000 = 1.5 tons
SH - (0.95 -0.9) x 20,000 = 1 tons
Mig 29K - (1.13- 0.9) x 17,600 = 4 tons

Therefore 54 Mig 29K uprated (to 35K?) is the best option now, or super hornets which will basically have the same engine as the MWF and ORCA. Why would the Rafale work for the choice? I would rather have a heavy carrier, with a super cruise option in the future if not now. The Americans and Russians should allow for a choice like that as Rafales already have that in regular export variants. Anyway which ever they pick up, the first two choices are mine, Mig-29K from saving pilots and aircrew from the extra training on a new fighter and my second choice; the F-18E/F for engine commonality.

 

[Bhurki]

Agreed, redesign isn't the option, forgive me, a proper way to put this would be to construct a new class of standalone AC.

Not possible.
Indian navy budget 2020 barely touched $4B.
An aircraft carrier costs $1B for every 10,000 tons.
In total an aircraft carrier of 90,000 tons will cost no less than $15B ( $9B for ship, $5B for airwing, $1B for dockyard facilities etc)

 

[Bhurki]

Therefore 54 Mig 29K uprated (to 35K?) is the best option now, or super hornets which will basically have the same engine as the MWF and ORCA. Why would the Rafale work for the choice? I would rather have a heavy carrier, with a super cruise option in the future if not now. The Americans and Russians should allow for a choice like that as Rafales already have that in regular export variants. Anyway which ever they pick up, the first two choices are mine, Mig-29K for saving pilots for extra training on a new fighter and my second choice; the F-18E/F for engine commonality.

At the very best, what will happen is some 20-30 mig 29k will be bought for $1-2B. There is simply no money for buying anything else.

 

[scatterStorm]

At the very best, what will happen is some 20-30 mig 29k will be bought for $1-2B. There is simply no money for buying anything else.

If I am not mistaken recent deals with USA allows military's hardware to be bought in half but can be payed later? UAE has been doing this since Nixon era.

 

[Bhurki]

If I am not mistaken recent deals with USA allows military's hardware to be bought in half but can be payed later? UAE has been doing this since Nixon era.

UAE could do that because it had oil.
India doesn't have any oil.
No free lunches.

Also, UAE allowed and even funded the US airbase that they host, so more times than not, it was US personnel using the equipment 'sold' to UAE. Same with Saudi.

Again, NO FREE LUNCHES.

 

[scatterStorm]

UAE could do that because it had oil.
India doesn't have any oil.
No free lunches.

Also, UAE allowed and even funded the US airbase that they host, so more times than not, it was US personnel using the equipment 'sold' to UAE. Same with Saudi.

Again, NO FREE LUNCHES.

Hmm, than Migs are the only way. Migs29UPG are comparable as well. (almost) so yeah that will be on the table.

 

[Thunderbolter]

At the very best, what will happen is some 20-30 mig 29k will be bought for $1-2B. There is simply no money for buying anything else.

First of all, please do not believe any article that says the Mig 29K isnt serviceable and availability is very low; this was done to buy time in training and seting up the facilities for the fleet during its induction, 7 years ago. The fighters were bought due to their prowess and are still chosen for the same, all over the world. Now about 'strategic buy'; the SH is chosen due to backing from NATO and nothing else. The Mig-35 on paper has better ratings then all other choices being thought about. The Mig-35 can be converted to the naval variant (where The 'K' stands for Korabelniy which means the ship variant in english)very quickly.

So; why Mig-35 over the other fighters?

Because the navy needs to ease their crews by getting the same up-rated platforms instead of familiar ones due to emergencies as witnesed recently with china, this too is strategic, and being pulled by the three BRICS nations to keep the common tech at par with other offering nations.

 

[Chinmoy]

First of all, please do not believe any article that says the Mig 29K isnt serviceable and availability is very low; this was done to buy time in training and seting up the facilities for the fleet during its induction, 7 years ago. The fighters were bought due to their prowess and are still choosen for the same, all over the world. Now about strategic buy, the SH is chosen due to backing from NATO and nothing else. The Mig-35 on paper has better ratings then all other choices being thought about. Why Mig-35 over the other fighters is because the navy needs to ease their crews by getting the same up-rated platforms instead of familiar ones due to emergencies as witnesed recently with china, this too is strategic, and being pulled by the three BRICS nations to keep the common tech at par with other offering nations.

Ok. You want to fly Mig-35 from Viki?

 

[Bhurki]

First of all, please do not believe any article that says the Mig 29K isnt serviceable and availability is very low; this was done to buy time in training and seting up the facilities for the fleet during its induction, 7 years ago. The fighters were bought due to their prowess and are still choosen for the same, all over the world. Now about strategic buy, the SH is chosen due to backing from NATO and nothing else. The Mig-35 on paper has better ratings then all other choices being thought about. Why Mig-35 over the other fighters is because the navy needs to ease their crews by getting the same up-rated platforms instead of familiar ones due to emergencies as witnesed recently with china, this too is strategic, and being pulled by the three BRICS nations to keep the common tech at par with other offering nations.

F-18 will end up costing the same as rafale.
All the armaments will have to be bought specially for it Aim9x or Amraam, or pay for integration of other Nato missiles like mica, meteor, asraam.

Mig 29k reports were not false. 3 aircraft broke there nose on landing and dozens of engines were deemed unusable by the navy.
Add to that, 3 aircraft were lost to accidents over just 2 years.

 

[Haldilal]

F-18 will end up costing the same as rafale.
All the armaments will have to be bought specially for it Aim9x or Amraam, or pay for integration of other Nato missiles like mica, meteor, asraam.

Mig 29k reports were not false. 3 aircraft broke there nose on landing and dozens of engines were deemed unusable by the navy.
Add to that, 3 aircraft were lost to accidents over just 2 years.

Were the 3 Mig 29K's written off?

 

[Thunderbolter]

Nose wheel damage and minor crashes off the runway are quite common with aircraft on offer too. The tech is literally as good and take my word for it, maybe better then some NATO designs. The crew deliberately ditch the fight while using non NATO intruments in order to bring NATO closer by all means be that in inspection, trials etc.

 

[Thunderbolter]

Ok. You want to fly Mig-35 from Viki?

Yes, I want the air crew to have a better life and not being called 'jack of all trades' by having such great "variety" and later have cramps due to "soo much more then before".

 

[Chinmoy]

Yes, I want the air crew to have a better life and not being called 'jack of all trades' by having such great "variety" and later have cramps due to "soo much more then before".

Ok.

I hope Mig guys listen to you and expedite the designing of ship borne Mig-35.