INS Vikrant Aircraft Carrier (IAC)

[Bhurki]

Why isn't france being rolled into the IAC 2 endeavour?
They produced their own carrier with catapults powered by nuclear reactors and their own aircraft fly off of it.
The only exception being e2c bought from US

 

[uoftotaku]

Why isn't france being rolled into the IAC 2 endeavour?
They produced their own carrier with catapults powered by nuclear reactors and their own aircraft fly off of it.
The only exception being e2c bought from US

Both France and the UK have made unsolicited offers to share design. The UK offered on three separate occasions to outright sell the HMS Prince of Wales and has recently revived its offer for design sharing of a CATOBAR QE2 (which they spent £28M on during the brief phase when the RN had decided to switch from the F-35B to C)

However since IN themselves still keep changing their mind every couple of months those offers are of no consequence.

Even Huntington Ingalls of the US has thrown in their offer but those guys are crooks so should not be entertained.

 

[Prashant12]

Cochin Shipyard signs the Phase-III contract with Indian Navy

Cochin Shipyard Limited on Friday informed that it has signed the Phase-III contract for Construction of the Indigenous Aircraft Carrier for Indian Navy.

Phase-III contract covers the operational and harbour acceptance trials of various equipments and systems installed onboard and also the Sea Trials of the Carrier. The contract also includes some activities which are to be undertaken post delivery of the vessel including support during weapons and aviation trials. The overall contract value is above Rs 3000 crores.

Cochin Shipyard Limited (CSL) is the largest shipbuilding and maintenance facility in India. CSL is mainly engaged in the construction of vessels and repairs and refits of all types of vessels including up gradation of ships, periodical layup repairs and life extension of ships. In the last four decades, the company has emerged as a forerunner in the Indian shipbuilding and ship repair industry and also a well-known player on the global shipbuilding front. The company has built and repaired some of the largest ships in India.

https://www.dsij.in/DSIJArticleDeta...signs-the-Phase-III-contract-with-Indian-Navy

 

[smooth manifold]

update. time unknown.............

 

[Armand2REP]

Why isn't france being rolled into the IAC 2 endeavour?
They produced their own carrier with catapults powered by nuclear reactors and their own aircraft fly off of it.
The only exception being e2c bought from US

We are in the middle of definition studies for our future carrier(s). We can offer the design of the British carriers, as we were the ones who designed them, but it wasn't worth us buying and I doubt India would want it looking at the costs associated in the British programme... which Is why we passed on it.

 

[Bhurki]

We are in the middle of definition studies for our future carrier(s). We can offer the design of the British carriers, as we were the ones who designed them, but it wasn't worth us buying and I doubt India would want it looking at the costs associated in the British programme... which Is why we passed on it.

I don't think France would like another nuke carrier.. CdG has been a huge pain to maintain and service.. They're quite expensive to procure as well. Afaik, France spends the highest on defense in Europe(allies) and very little room left for increase in expnditure..
Also, British carrier programme had 2 options allowed to it with budget of GBP6bn - Either buy one nuke carrier or buy 2 conventional ones..

 

[Prashant12]

Engines fired up, basin trials next for Indigenous Aircraft Carrier

The long-delayed project, which was to be completed by 2018, is now back on track, with senior officers saying that the 37,500-tonne aircraft carrier will initially operate MiG 29K fighters and could also feature indigenous combat aircraft.

NEW DELHI: The engines on board the first Indigenous Aircraft Carrier (IAC) being constructed at Kochi have been fired up and the Navy is starting on the next step of basin trials, with expectations that the warship would be ready for operations by 2022.

The long-delayed project, which was to be completed by 2018, is now back on track, with senior officers saying that the 37,500-tonne aircraft carrier will initially operate MiG 29K fighters and could also feature indigenous combat aircraft.

The carrier, the largest ever warship to be constructed in an Indian yard, is now in its final phase of construction and the Navy could consider operating a limited number of the maritime version of the Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) once it gets fit for service, said people aware of the matter.

However, an indigenous fighter jet that would meet technical requirements of the Navy is unlikely to be ready for operational duty before 2026, which could put a strain on the fleet of MiG 29K fighter jets that are currently used for the INS Vikramaditya, India’s only aircraft carrier.

A key requirement of the Navy is a double engine jet to ensure safety of the crew at sea.

“We have started the engine and hope to get the ship by 2021. It will take a year after that to get it operational.

We plan to start with the MiG 29K fighter jets,” a senior official told ET on condition of anonymity.

With the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) promising a technically compliant fighter jet by 2026, the Navy would be open to using it for the second indigenous aircraft carrier that it plans to build. Though funds have not been cleared by the defence ministry, the Navy is hopeful of a speedy approval for its plan to construct a larger aircraft carrier at the earliest.

The people cited earlier also said that the LCA Navy being developed could head for deck trials on the INS Vikramaditya soon, after it clears a series of test flights at the Shore Based Testing Facility (SBTF) in Goa. The fighter jet has undergone night trials as well as a launch with four air-to-air missiles on board in recent days.

The 37,500-tonne Short Take off but Assisted Recovery (STOBAR) Carrier – named the Vikrant – has been in the works since it was sanctioned in 2003.

https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...ous-aircraft-carrier/articleshow/72324320.cms

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

That is to say if it gets funded soon..
Last i heard navy was asking 60000 crore for that 65k ton ship and MoD folded..
For comparison, that is 80% more than HMS QE for a smaller ship.
So they said a 50k ton a/c is now being considered which will cost 50000 crore.
The later MoD signs it, the harder inflation will penalise the total cost of program.
And then, there's the airwing.

The 60k crore also includes the cost of new fighters and not only the carrier. The estimate was based on carrier using 40+ Rafale M aircraft. The cost of carrier alone costed around 20000 crores. If its Nuclear propulsion IN gave a budget of 70000 crores. Reality was pushed on IN by MoD.

 

[Assassin 2.0]

Engines fired up, basin trials next for Indigenous Aircraft Carrier
The long-delayed project, which was to be completed by 2018, is now back on track, with senior officers saying that the 37,500-tonne aircraft carrier will initially operate MiG 29K fighters and could also feature indigenous combat aircraft.


With the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) promising a technically compliant fighter jet by 2026, the Navy would be open to using it for the second indigenous aircraft carrier that it plans to build. Though funds have not been cleared by the defence ministry, the Navy is hopeful of a speedy approval for its plan to construct a larger aircraft carrier at the earliest.

Some reports say Mid life update of Mig-29K is also getting considered.

 

[Raju Seth]

so happy to see this thread starting to buzz...from next year we are going to see this thread alot


:hippo:



https://www.thehindubusinessline.co...ef-admiral-karambir-singh/article30147141.ece

Source : thehindubusinessline

Navy’s long-term plan is to have three aircraft carriers, says Navy chief Admiral Karambir Singh
PTI New Delhi | Updated on December 03, 2019 Published on December 03, 2019

Chief of Naval Staff, Admiral Karambir Singh, addresses a press conference in New Delhi, Tuesday, December 3, 2019. - PTI

The Navy’s long-term plan is to have three aircraft carriers, Navy chief Admiral Karambir Singh said on Tuesday, and added that the first indigenous aircraft carrier will be fully operational by 2022.

Admiral Singh, speaking at an annual press conference, also assured the nation that the Navy is fully prepared to deal with national security challenges. The Navy’s long-term plan is to have three aircraft carriers, he said.

The Navy chief also said the first indigenous aircraft carrier (IAC) will be fully operational by 2022 and will have MiG-29K aircraft.

“The Navy’s annual budget allocation has come down from 18 per cent to 12 per cent in the last five years,” he noted.

On the challenges in the neighbourhood, he said no action of any other player in the region should impact us. “We are ready to work with like-minded nations in the region,” he said.

Asked about the massive expansion of the Chinese Navy, Admiral Singh said they are moving at the pace they are capable of and “we are moving at the place we are capable of”. Seven to eight Chinese ships are usually present in Indian Ocean region, he noted.

The Navy chief also said India is playing a stabilising role in the Indo-Pacific region.

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

Engines fired up, basin trials next for Indigenous Aircraft Carrier
The long-delayed project, which was to be completed by 2018, is now back on track, with senior officers saying that the 37,500-tonne aircraft carrier will initially operate MiG 29K fighters and could also feature indigenous combat aircraft.


With the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) promising a technically compliant fighter jet by 2026, the Navy would be open to using it for the second indigenous aircraft carrier that it plans to build. Though funds have not been cleared by the defence ministry, the Navy is hopeful of a speedy approval for its plan to construct a larger aircraft carrier at the earliest.

Some reports say Mid life update of Mig-29K is also getting considered.

I think India could have brought the IP and production line of Mig29K back in 2004. These aircrafts have no new orders and India could have modified to our strengths.

 

[ladder]

I think India could have brought the IP and production line of Mig29K back in 2004. These aircrafts have no new orders and India could have modified to our strengths.

There was talk of Indian Navy approaching DRDO/ ADA to look into the issues faced by Mig 29K. Don't know what happened to that. My take, probably stopped by Russians. They would want us to pay them to look into those problems, not withstanding the fact that a properly navalized fighter ought not to have had these kind of deficiency in the first place.

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

There was talk of Indian Navy approaching DRDO/ ADA to look into the issues faced by Mig 29K. Don't know what happened to that. My take, probably stopped by Russians. They would want us to pay them to look into those problems, not withstanding the fact that a properly navalized fighter ought not to have had these kind of deficiency in the first place.

Anyone wouldnt want us to take a look at their source codes in the first place. Since now its reckoning to sell 57 naval fighters and RN planned to buy it to replace Su33 they are very adamant.

The only time they allowed some weapon related source code was for Su30 MKI where we had to integrate Israeli avionics and other tech stuffs ourselves. Even then now they want us to stop tinkering with Su30 particularly reg integration of Israeli and our weapons on them. Their attitude is not able to accept us improving our design capabilities.

 

[ladder]

Anyone wouldnt want us to take a look at their source codes in the first place. Since now its reckoning to sell 57 naval fighters and RN planned to buy it to replace Su33 they are very adamant.

The only time they allowed some weapon related source code was for Su30 MKI where we had to integrate Israeli avionics and other tech stuffs ourselves. Even then now they want us to stop tinkering with Su30 particularly reg integration of Israeli and our weapons on them. Their attitude is not able to accept us improving our design capabilities.

More apt example would have been structural strength work carried out for carrying Brahmos on Su 30mki. Similarly on Mig 29K most of the work needed is the structural.

Even for integrating Brahmos, Russians wanted a lot of money. ADA and related agencies did it within a fraction of that cost.

Any ways, the point of my previous post was, Russians would have demanded exhorbitant money for providing us the IP for Mig 29 K.

Even if we pay for the IP, we know we are going to get a half baked product. To rectify them either again we have to approach the Russians ( more money down the drain) or approach the DRDO/ADA.

In short, a loss making proposition.

 

[Bhurki]

More apt example would have been structural strength work carried out for carrying Brahmos on Su 30mki. Similarly on Mig 29K most of the work needed is the structural.

The two are uncomparable.
Su30mki strengthening for brahmos requires far fewer changes, basically regarding increasing load weight of dual hard points on the center of the fuselage, while mig 29k requires entire spinal assembly to be beefed up for proper distribution of stress during arrested recovery..

 

[Bhurki]

The 60k crore also includes the cost of new fighters and not only the carrier. The estimate was based on carrier using 40+ Rafale M aircraft. The cost of carrier alone costed around 20000 crores. If its Nuclear propulsion IN gave a budget of 70000 crores. Reality was pushed on IN by MoD.

Nope.

Here it clearly states that 70,000 crore doesn't include aircraft
https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...ld-use-hybrid-system/articleshow/70381152.cms

And here, it implies so by saying a/c construction of 50,000 crore( resized smaller proposal) will be spread over 10 years to cost 5000 crore/annum.
https://wap.business-standard.com/a...arrier-ins-vishal-on-hold-119050600047_1.html

Here, it iterates the above but 45000 crore specifying conventional propulsion excluding aircraft and a smaller size of 50 kton
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...3rd-aircraft-carrier/articleshow/71383514.cms

And here it just says 1.6 lakh crore ( $22B) for both carrier and aircraft.
https://www.indiatoday.in/amp/mail-...whopping-rs-1-6-lakh-crore-1144836-2018-01-15

 

[ladder]

The two are uncomparable.
Su30mki strengthening for brahmos requires far fewer changes, basically regarding increasing load weight of dual hard points on the center of the fuselage, while mig 29k requires entire spinal assembly to be beefed up for proper distribution of stress during arrested recovery..

Well the other poster gave example of weapon integration. Therefore I said as the work required is structural thus, structural strengthening example is more apt.

I never said the work or requirements are similar.

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

Nope.

Here it clearly states that 70,000 crore doesn't include aircraft
https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...ld-use-hybrid-system/articleshow/70381152.cms

And here, it implies so by saying a/c construction of 50,000 crore( resized smaller proposal) will be spread over 10 years to cost 5000 crore/annum.
https://wap.business-standard.com/a...arrier-ins-vishal-on-hold-119050600047_1.html

Here, it iterates the above but 45000 crore specifying conventional propulsion excluding aircraft and a smaller size of 50 kton
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...3rd-aircraft-carrier/articleshow/71383514.cms

And here it just says 1.6 lakh crore ( $22B) for both carrier and aircraft.
https://www.indiatoday.in/amp/mail-...whopping-rs-1-6-lakh-crore-1144836-2018-01-15

I simply dont understand then. When it took 3B or around 19k crores with cost and dollar inflation for a 40k tonne carrier how can they cost 45k crores for an 50k tonnes carrier. Earlier I had seen reports saying that 65k tonne with electric propulsion and ac will cost around 65k crores. And I always thought the cost was along with the fighters.

If the above reports are true, that carrier in itself will cost atleast 60k crores, then its good to be put on back burner. 50 Rafale M or F18 will cost another 35000 crores. That's like 12B. The Navy could probably build 20 diesel attack subs in that money or 10-12 air defence destroyers, even more frigates in that money.

Or worst case they can go towards improving squadron strengths for AF while repositioning them for protecting naval assets at the same time. 12B can buy 72 Rafales atleast.

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

Navy should build IAC 2 as copycat of IAC 1. ADA twin engine can be ready or worst case import more Mig 29K to keep cost low at the same time maintain operational efficiency.

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

A 1 lakh tonne carrier of US navy with nuclear propulsion and EMALS cost around 11-12B including R&D. And 65k tonnes with electric propulsion is 9B? What are they smoking.