INS Vikramaditya (Adm Gorshkov) aircraft carrier

Tshering22

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Turkish shipyards were recently modernized by European contractors.

Indian fleet replenishment deal involved not just tanker design but also modernization of shipyard along European standards.

Turkish bid was cheaper for same thing offered by other Europeans and they learnt from European themselves.

Turky was the only bidder willing to build all ships in india rest were demanding first ship at foreign then rest in india .

Also keep in mind devaluation of Turkish currency against dollar and rupee which has made the deal much cheaper for us.

Also while we can design those tankers in india our Design institutes are overwhelmed with warship design works ( next carrier , next gen destroyers frigrates). So we are trying to develop in house design capabilities in shipyards for faster production in future. That's why foreign involvement in tankers.
I wonder whether they have risked the possibility of Turkish intelligence agencies embedding their agents to get information for Pakistanis. That's a big risk given the recent political manoeuvring by Erdogan. I wonder whether our IAS babus who are usually a part of these committees, even thinking in this direction.
 

IndianHawk

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I wonder whether they have risked the possibility of Turkish intelligence agencies embedding their agents to get information for Pakistanis. That's a big risk given the recent political manoeuvring by Erdogan. I wonder whether our IAS babus who are usually a part of these committees, even thinking in this direction.
What information would they gather about a replenishment tanker??

Doesn't porkys already have many many disgruntled muzzies in india to do their spying rather then relying few Turkish engineers under constant scrutiny?
 

Tridev123

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On an average there are at least a few dozen admirals in the pockets of different arms lobbies in India. This is also applicable for the army and the IAF. They don't just get billions through tendering straight. Most of the decisions are made long before the weapons even reach the testing stage. Why do you think that there are no attempts being made to expand shipbuilding capacity at GRSE, MDL, CSL, etc. when they know that there is a huge demand for ships in the coming year?

Every dockyard does a business forecast based on the DPP and the LTIPP documents that includes a lot, and I mean a lot of future anticipated requirements with a margin of 20% give or take.

These PSUs are intentionally held back using bureaucracy but middle ministers, IAS, admirals and other officers way below the PMO to keep Yantar Shipyard, Kalinin Shipyard, Fincantieri, Naval Group, Navantia, etc. shipyards busy.

There is another side to it as well. That being politics; using arms deals to buy countries' favours.

Turkey turning a supplier for navies of India, Pakistan?

Some Babu got the brainwave that it would be easier to buy Turkey's allegiance from Pakistan if we order ships from them. These idiots have no concept of strategic thoughts of interests of India becoming a superpower. They only care about their name, money, and "phacilitiz".

That's why India preferred a fleet replenishment ship from Turks rather than getting something very advanced. It is a logistics ship that supplies food, ammunition, spares and other inventories necessary to keep ships afloat. Any Indian shipyard can make it, but contracting this reminds Turkey diplomatically that allying with us in the long-term would benefit Turkey more.

Coming back to INS Vikramaditya, it is most likely the last Russian-made carrier grade ship that we have bought from them.

If PM Modi plays his cards right, he can actually use the INS Vikrant's case as a precedent to make carriers in the future only from Indian shipyards.
I agree that the hold of the import lobbies is quite strong in all the three services.
It is a sad situation. Some of the allurements
1. Escorts to entertain the officers
2.Money,probably credited into overseas accounts.
3.Educational and job opportunities for the children of the officers. Even
permanent stay visas and residency privileges for offspring.
Just the most common ones.

But I wish to put on record that for every one black sheep in the system, there are tens of nationalistic, sincere and honest officers in the defence forces.

More retired Navy officers should be inducted into all the public sector shipyards. They can look into the eyes of the people in charge of procurement in the Navy without fear and push for greater share of indigenous ships wherever they are viable.

Already I believe some shipyards are headed by ex service men. But our public sector shipyards should increase efficiency and deliver warships in time and within cost estimates You cannot have the Chinese shipyards delivering one new destroyer/frigate in under 5 years and our public sector shipyards delivering the same type of vessels in10 years.

The biggest complaint against the public sector shipyards is the non adherence to time, quality and cost parameters.

We should not be very particular about ordering only from public sector shipyards.
Private sector shipyards should also be encouraged. After all they are also Indian owned. And probably more efficient.

Coming to the new shortly to be inducted Vikrant aircraft carrier, will it be better than the Vikramaditya and be out of port more. Better availability and servicibility.
There should be a comparison between the two after the Vikrant gets operational and does a couple of years of service. I think the design for the next indigenous aircraft carrier should not be frozen before we get the authentic feedback on the performance of the Vikrant. Any problems encountered with the Vikrant should be analysed and changes incorporated into the design of the next IAC. We should gain from the experience of operating the Vikrant.
 

Super Flanker

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What information would they gather about a replenishment tanker??

Doesn't porkys already have many many disgruntled muzzies in india to do their spying rather then relying few Turkish engineers under constant scrutiny?
Don't underestimate the Porkis buddy. The Turkish could infact leak some of the information about these ships which we are buying from Turkey.
For example,
1)The RCS of these Ships
2)Their Electronic emissions

etc. And some other DATA about these ships Could be given to the Porkis by their Turkish Brothers and Sisters.
DSEI-2019-Navantia-BMT-Team-Unveil-Their-FSS-Ship-Proposal-2-e1580921001348.jpg

 

IndianHawk

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Don't underestimate the Porkis buddy. The Turkish could infact leak some of the information about these ships which we are buying from Turkey.
For example,
1)The RCS of these Ships
2)Their Electronic emissions

etc. And some other DATA about these ships Could be given to the Porkis by their Turkish Brothers and Sisters.
View attachment 125101
Neither navy nor mod is worried about those things and those are the professionals. They know what they are doing.
 

Super Flanker

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Neither navy nor mod is worried about those things and those are the professionals. They know what they are doing.
Yeah exactly. I pretty sure that Navy would have taken such things into Consideration before Signing the Deal with Turkey.
Indian Navy is not foolish in this matter which is obvious, they are well prepared.
Anyways hopefully, in the Future we will design and Build our own Replenishment tankers like The one which we are ordering from the Turks in my opinion.
I just hope all goes well from my side.
Anyways these are just Replenishment tankers and not full fledged warships like: Corvettes, Frigates, Destroyers etc, if it was so, than that would have been a Different case here.
HSL-class_fleet_support_ship.jpg
 

Tshering22

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What information would they gather about a replenishment tanker??

Doesn't porkys already have many many disgruntled muzzies in india to do their spying rather then relying few Turkish engineers under constant scrutiny?
I was referring to using this ship deal to infiltrate further. As the recent cheering of the death of our CDS sir has shown, there are enough black sheep within our military who will be happy to reach out and provide information for money, Turkish kabab or Turkish shabab.

It never stays limited to one deal once the commercial relationship is established.
 

IndianHawk

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I was referring to using this ship deal to infiltrate further. As the recent cheering of the death of our CDS sir has shown, there are enough black sheep within our military who will be happy to reach out and provide information for money, Turkish kabab or Turkish shabab.

It never stays limited to one deal once the commercial relationship is established.
It could work other way around too. We might be bringing those Turkish engineers to disclose info about porkys new frigates built by them . 😆
 

Covfefe

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I was referring to using this ship deal to infiltrate further. As the recent cheering of the death of our CDS sir has shown, there are enough black sheep within our military who will be happy to reach out and provide information for money, Turkish kabab or Turkish shabab.

It never stays limited to one deal once the commercial relationship is established.
Plus their access to shipbuilding sites. Any other fella can't roam around these shipyards without coming into the notice of intelligence agencies and these possible Paki colluders will be working inside them.
 

Super Flanker

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Indian naval mig are useless dummy jets and maintanance hungry
Well I don't disagree with the part that MiG-29 along with other types of Russian planes in Indian armed forces inventory require more maintenance as compared to Indian/Western platforms which is a fact but I disagree with the part that they are useless.

In reality, MiG-29 is a very capable plane and is very capable to tackle your JF-17s/F-16s/Mirage-3/5/F-7PGs. No platform is useless.
 

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