INS Vikramaditya (Adm Gorshkov) aircraft carrier

[p2prada]

I am afraid I am NOT following your logic, gentlemen... ...

If this "why the hurry" stands, then there is NO point to penalty Russia. And you can acquite the decision maker who went to Vikramaditya, instead go for a brand new AC. Nor do you need to track down those IN responsibilities in boiler incapsulate material applied, since, again, "why the hurry"?!

No escort ships does give you space to request an improved/fixed Vicky, but NOT enough to say "why the hurry". That's simply NOT the way for defense matters.

There is no problem as such if the ship came earlier. Fact is the same ships that are needed to create a CBG are delayed. So, there is no problem if the ship is delayed a bit more.

A Carrier without support assets is a defenceless target. No point risking our sailors lives for something so trivial.

Carriers are not a priority for IN, we need a decent surface and subsurface fleet. If we use all our current ships as escorts then we won't have anything for offensive and defensive roles. Which would mean our Navy will be toothless.

That's why even IAC-2 has been pushed to beyond 2020. Even if we get a carrier by 2012, we won't have a CBG.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Have you checked Rajput Upgrades recently ( ASW & Anti-ASM ) ? ( I am not talking about PJ-10 on D54 )

What is full size CBG / Half size as per Indian Navy ?

Well as I told you Viraat is going to serve till 2017 and no doubt about it. But the Rajput class carriers are still old ships which dosent have an air defence system comparable to a modern destroyer.

I would rather have a fully functional CBG instead of an half-assed one putting the whole fleet and men in jeopardy.

Presently :

3 x Delhi Class
5 x Rajput Class

For CBG purpose we can count :

2 X delhi class
3 X Rajput class

-------------------------------------

By the time Vikramaditya arrives :

2 X kolkata Class will be active..

 

[pankaj nema]

One Decade from Now there will be AT LEAST TEN Chinese Frigates and Submarines
in GWADAR

To Counter and Deter BOTH PLAN AND Pak Navy operating
out of GWADAR we will need a BIG CBG

Similarly At least TEN More Chinese Frigates and Submarines
will be moving around in the Indian Ocean region

 

[SATISH]

Have you checked Rajput Upgrades recently ( ASW & Anti-ASM ) ? ( I am not talking about PJ-10 on D54 )

What is full size CBG / Half size as per Indian Navy ?

Sir,

What about the airdefence capability? can it provide the CBG with area air defence cover? Well the Rajput class is a destroyer but can you please compare it with the Shivalik class or the Talwar class Frigate? These frigates are better than the destroyer. Only the Delhi class has the potential right now to be in the CBG .We have already moved from lighter ships to larger and more powerful ships. And the CBG needs a good air cover and ASW capability. The Rajputs have good ASW capability and no denying it but fails miserable when it is required to give air defence capability. The Main enemy is going to be the shore based aircrafts carrying AShMs and Torpedoes.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Rajputs have good ASW capability and no denying it but fails miserable when it is required to give air defence capability. The Main enemy is going to be the shore based aircrafts carrying AShMs and Torpedoes.

@Satish,

Regarding Anti-Ship Missiles Raj-put have good defense..

I should not edit this watermark pic..

But note the following :

1. Note AK-630 CIWS

2. Note Barak SAM launchers just near AK-630 CIWS

3. The Old S-125M..

-----------------------------------------------

Torpedo are used against Submerged targets, there are no Torpedo design to engage surface battle groups from long range..

 

[SATISH]

@Satish,

Regarding Anti-Ship Missiles Raj-put have good defense..

I should not edit this watermark pic..

But note the following :

1. Note AK-630 CIWS

2. Note Barak SAM launchers just near AK-630 CIWS

3. The Old S-125M..

-----------------------------------------------

Torpedo are used against Submerged targets, there are no Torpedo design to engage surface battle groups from long range..

Sir,
Am not talking about self defence but area defence capability which is required for protection of the CBG. I never refuted the capability of Rajput in handling itself but as a unit in the CBG providing the air defence of the whole CBG is not possible with the present Barak 1 but the Barak NG with a 70-100Km range and the MF-star is a much better bet,

Look at the Kolkata class and you can see it can carry a 64 cell Barak NG launcher with a 32 cell Barak 1 launcher along with 16 Bhramos/Klub and the Sensor suite is in a different league. That is why Kolkata class has been built.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

air defence of the whole CBG is not possible with the present Barak 1 .

Its not only One ship responsible for defense of the CV, but all the vessels in the fleet..

These escort vessels provide a defense around CV also change formation as per thread direction..


Barak-1 range is merely 10-12kms on every ship, But they work as a team and form a multilayer ASM defense layer to protect CV..

Barak 8 is better but that doesn't make Barak-1 ineffective..

 

[Bheeshma]

One Decade from Now there will be AT LEAST TEN Chinese Frigates and Submarines
in GWADAR

To Counter and Deter BOTH PLAN AND Pak Navy operating
out of GWADAR we will need a BIG CBG

Similarly At least TEN More Chinese Frigates and Submarines
will be moving around in the Indian Ocean region

Says who? Chinese ships can't even sail in the SCS openly without USN tracking them. 40-50 years of operating nuke subs and they still can't go on a deterrent patrol. The blue water capability and CVBG experience is nil. They are not going anywhere. With USN reorganizing to asia pacific region IN is the one thats going to push into SEA and pacific.

 

[SATISH]

Its not only One ship responsible for defense of the CV, but all the vessels in the fleet..

These escort vessels provide a defense around CV also change formation as per thread direction..


Barak-1 range is merely 10-12kms on every ship, But they work as a team and form a multilayer ASM defense layer to protect CV..

Barak 8 is better but that doesn't make Barak-1 ineffective..

Barak 1 is more like a CIWS missile. It is good for self-defence

THis is the type of defence that is required. I never said the Barak 1 was not effective but it cannot provide area defense with it's range.Remember we have a lot of proliferation of sea skimming AShM which have multiple launch platforms like the C 802 and C 803 along with the Harpoons. So having a capability to provide area air defense is a must for any modern CBG. The CHinese already have their HQ 9 on their Type-052C destroyers.

And I still think that it is better to iron out the issues of the Vicky before it arrives.

 

[SATISH]

Its not only One ship responsible for defense of the CV, but all the vessels in the fleet..

These escort vessels provide a defense around CV also change formation as per thread direction..


Barak-1 range is merely 10-12kms on every ship, But they work as a team and form a multilayer ASM defense layer to protect CV..

Barak 8 is better but that doesn't make Barak-1 ineffective..

Barak 1 is more like a CIWS missile. It is good for self-defence

THis is the type of defence that is required. I never said the Barak 1 was not effective but it cannot provide area defense with it's range.Remember we have a lot of proliferation of sea skimming AShM which have multiple launch platforms like the C 802 and C 803 along with the Harpoons. So having a capability to provide area air defense is a must for any modern CBG. The CHinese already have their HQ 9 on their Type-052C destroyers.

And I still think that it is better to iron out the issues of the Vicky before it arrives.

 

[Zebra]

It's only ignorant helpless tax payers' money, who can not exercise the Right to Speech provided by the constitution in this regime.

Good one bro. :thumb:

Yeah, you are right there. GoI may reply, in not more than 500 words.

 

[bhramos]

Yard Boss Blames Boilers for Indian Carrier Trials Snags

 

[arya]

in short and simple forget AC pasa hajam khel katham

 

[p2prada]

Barak 1 is useless for fleet defence. It is a CIWS and will only protect the ship it is on. Both Viraat and Gorky will have Barak 1s.

What we really need is the Barak 8 and AAD on the Destroyers.

For now the Shtil-1 on the Shivaliks will do but it is obsolete.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Its not only One ship responsible for defense of the CV, but all the vessels in the fleet..

These escort vessels provide a defense around CV also change formation as per thread direction..


Barak-1 range is merely 10-12kms on every ship, But they work as a team and form a multilayer ASM defense layer to protect CV..

THis is the type of defence that is required. I never said the Barak 1 was not effective but it cannot provide area defense with it's range.Remember we have a lot of proliferation of sea skimming AShM which have multiple launch platforms like the C 802 and C 803 along with the Harpoons. So having a capability to provide area air defense is a must for any modern CBG. The CHinese already have their HQ 9 on their Type-052C destroyers.

And I still think that it is better to iron out the issues of the Vicky before it arrives.

Your Answer was in my previous post only..

 

[rockdog]

Chinese thermal bricks disrupted INS Vikramaditya Sea Trials

Bricks, destroying trials of "Vikramaditya", made "‹"‹in China

Кирпичи, разрушившиеся при испытаниях "Викрамадитьи", сделаны в Китае | Оборона и безопасность | Лента новостей "РИА Новости"

Dyachkov announced that the repair will be completed in May 2013, and the deadline ship, according to preliminary data, will move to nine months. Official data on the cost of repairs were not called.

"The boilers were manufactured at the request of the Indian side in the Russian Navy used boilers, which are used as fuel oil. Indian side has made a request to use boilers that run on diesel fuel," - said Dyachkov meeting with Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin, dedicated situation with the aircraft carrier.

According Djachkov work Boiler Design Bureau was conducted in the Russian Federation, and the boilers were manufactured at the Baltic Shipyard. "During the trial in the vessel wall boilers are not technically able to develop full speed. They were tested for a maximum capacity of 40%. When first entering the large capacity of up to 100% was observed partial collapse of refractory masonry in boiler furnaces," - he said.

Responding to a question Rogozin, which used materials Dyachkov said that it was "fire clay bricks made in China." "Unfortunately, the Russian production of this material has been lost," - declared the president of USC.

Now the blame game is expanding, but who the hell told the Russian that on such a highly vibrating environment, the bricks should be the right option? Did they do any testing before?

 

[trackwhack]

re: Chinese thermal bricks disrupted INS Vikramaditya Sea Trials

Well, China has a reputation of adhering to standards when the product is evaluated and later ensures continuous degradation of product quality through cutting corners.

 

[Tshering22]

re: Chinese thermal bricks disrupted INS Vikramaditya Sea Trials

Well, China has a reputation of adhering to standards when the product is evaluated and later ensures continuous degradation of product quality through cutting corners.

Actually in China, work related to national security is done at gunpoint, with solid accountability to the state and the PLA, unlike our pathetic PSUs where a demoralized, demotivated and old fashioned set of government servants work in totally off-putting conditions with zero accountability.

To make something attractive, one has to spend money. It is not that our government cannot spend money on improving the financial benefits, infrastructure and working conditions of our engineers and scientists.. it is just that they want to pocket the money into foreign accounts.

The good thing about Chinese government: They have some concern for China as a country unlike our government.

 

[LurkerBaba]

re: Chinese thermal bricks disrupted INS Vikramaditya Sea Trials

Thread moved.......

 

[utubekhiladi]

re: Chinese thermal bricks disrupted INS Vikramaditya Sea Trials



do anyone really think that china purposefully degraded the quality of the boilers? so that they can delay Vikramaditya even further while china gets upper hand?