INS Vikramaditya (Adm Gorshkov) aircraft carrier

[arya]

i cant wait any more , induct ASAP

 

[Adux]

Vikramaditya will be less capable than Gorshkov, what humbug. I agree it is a rustbucket, but it is better ruskbucket than the earlier soviet rustbucket it used to be. Complete lack of understanding of Naval power projection

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Vikramaditya will have less capability compared to Gorshkov w.r.t. the P-500 Bazalt,

P-500 are not universal missiles, the way i see, Vikramaditya is more capable coz it can have MIG-29K with KH-35 urans and other A2G ordinance..

 

[p2prada]

That author of the article seems to be biased about Russian technology.....

Anyway, is it true that the ship wont have Air Defence Systems???

Barak 8 will be installed only in 2017 for both Vikrant and Gorky.

 

[pmaitra]

P-500 are not universal missiles, the way i see, Vikramaditya is more capable coz it can have MIG-29K with KH-35 urans and other A2G ordinance..

P-500 are nuclear capable missile, although Kh-35E is more modern, I am not sure whether they are nuclear capable or not. Also, they have aircraft as well as deck launched versions. So it will be getting the aircraft launched version? As of now, it does not have any anti-ship missile installed on the ship, and I doubt whether there is space for keeping a few deck launched Kh-35E batteries.

Now as P2P says, come 2017, they will have SAM capabilities.

Of course, it is a fine ship as it is. Its role have changed a lot from Gorshkov to Vikramaditya, so I think it does not need to perform the role of a submarine supporting aviation cruiser anymore. So, again, comparing the Gorshkov with Vikramaditya is tricky.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

P-500 are nuclear capable missile, although Kh-35E is more modern, I am not sure whether they are nuclear capable or not. Also, they have aircraft as well as deck launched versions. So it will be getting the aircraft launched version? As of now, it does not have any anti-ship missile installed on the ship, and I doubt whether there is space for keeping a few deck launched Kh-35E batteries.

Now as P2P says, come 2017, they will have SAM capabilities.

Of course, it is a fine ship as it is. Its role have changed a lot from Gorshkov to Vikramaditya, so I think it does not need to perform the role of a submarine supporting aviation cruiser anymore. So, again, comparing the Gorshkov with Vikramaditya is tricky.

One can deploy Nuclear payload via aircrafts also A2G tactical ordinance, KH-35 are Anti-Ship, why i mentioned coz MIG-29K range with additional range of Missile it self is more flexible..

The aircraft used on Gorshkov were not same as Modern MIG-29K of today, Also MIG-29k are superior in every way to Gorshkov jets back then..


Yes, both are different concepts, But i find a dedicated CV is better than Aviation battle Cruiser..

 

[pmaitra]

^^

As per Soviet doctrine, an aviation cruiser was more suitable, but as per Indian doctrine, AC is more suitable. So yes, I agree, whatever modifications were done, were done after a good amount of brainstorming.

 

[Adux]

Soviet's were completly outclassed in doctrine, process, maintenance , design, technology and training by the US Navy.

Gorshkov would need to get inside 500 Kilometer radius to attack the US Carrier, Do you want to know what is the weapon system and range of the F-14 Fleet Defender and American Escort capability. Gorshkov would be sunk far before it reaches the 500 Kilometer mark.

That is the power of an aircraft carrier with catapult launch, range and weapon carrying capacity.

 

[pmaitra]

Thanks Kunal.

Anyway, lest we digress, I am waiting for the sea trials to begin. I'd love to see videos of MiGs flying out of Vikramaditya. All of India is waiting. Let's hope there is no further delay.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Deck Config

 

[p2prada]

Soviet's were completly outclassed in doctrine, process, maintenance , design, technology and training by the US Navy.

Gorshkov would need to get inside 500 Kilometer radius to attack the US Carrier, Do you want to know what is the weapon system and range of the F-14 Fleet Defender and American Escort capability. Gorshkov would be sunk far before it reaches the 500 Kilometer mark.

That is the power of an aircraft carrier with catapult launch, range and weapon carrying capacity.

During Malabar 2005, six Maritime Strike Jaguars got into firing positions against the USS Kitty Hawk.

Gorky, Vikrant etc cannot handle an American CBG. No force on the planet today can do it. Gorky is a fleet defence ship for us.

Only Soviet subs could manage to get within the carrier's defences. From wiki leaks we know the only reason Task force 74 withdrew was because of Soviet presence and not because Nixon had a big heart.

 

[Adux]

Are we talking about bazalt or maritime strike fighters. USN is a different beast and i even doubt the versvity of yhe claim especially by indian media.

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[Adux]

During Malabar 2005, six Maritime Strike Jaguars got into firing positions against the USS Kitty Hawk.

Gorky, Vikrant etc cannot handle an American CBG. No force on the planet today can do it. Gorky is a fleet defence ship for us.

Only Soviet subs could manage to get within the carrier's defences. From wiki leaks we know the only reason Task force 74 withdrew was because of Soviet presence and not because Nixon had a big heart.

They withdrew because they couldnt do anything. Why. Look at their orbat at that point of time. Not Soviet subs. Not nixons big heart. Also everybody knew that bangladesh was a forgone conclusion. Nixon stopped the western front.
The same USN used to harass the soviet joke of naval surface fleet like the afghan navy.
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[Adux]

What is anti ship missile carried by jaguars.. Sea eagles and harpoons.what are the ranges of these missiles Even forgeting the carriers own defences and jts escorts aam missiles and ciws...lol

What are the number of fighters and the range of the amarams it carries.

Wether it is the gotland or collins or even the this jaguar incident. They will not be able to touch the CBG let alone the carrier

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[p2prada]

What is anti ship missile carried by jaguars.. Sea eagles and harpoons.what are the ranges of these missiles Even forgeting the carriers own defences and jts escorts aam missiles and ciws...lol

What are the number of fighters and the range of the amarams it carries.

Wether it is the gotland or collins or even the this jaguar incident. They will not be able to touch the CBG let alone the carrier

These were maritime Jaguars, only a handful with Agave radars. I dunno if they carried missiles during the exercise but they achieved a firing position on the Kitty Hawk. Of course a scripted battle does not mean anything in a real confrontation. They were simulating a war at sea for 24 hours I guess.

Tactics can beat even the best defence. A Swedish sub managed to get into a firing position too and this was a bigger deal than the Malabar exercise. A Gotland class managed to circumvent all their defences. Turns out the flumoxed US Navy immediately dispatched officials to Sweden and got a lease on the submarine for 1 year with the crew. They had used it extensively in every single domestic Naval exercise since. In one exercise, they spent two months searching for the sub and failed. The USS Ronald Regan was singled out and "sunk" many times even in a CBG. Impressive by any standards.

A USN CBG is simply too powerful but not invincible. There simply isn't a country today which can match it, maybe China in the future.

 

[Neil]

^^^ is that Gotland sub up for sale...?? if that sub can surpass US defenses... that too of a CBG...hell paki and chini navy have to scrap their anti sub warships as junks....!!

 

[p2prada]

All subs are dangerous, nuke subs are even more so because they are way faster than diesel electric subs. If your submarine database does not have noise/acoustic signatures of an enemy sub, then you are as good as dead. The more sound a sub makes, the more useless it is. The Americans spent two years recording the Gotland's signatures. A diesel electric sub is quieter than a nuke sub because nuclear reactors need continuous coolant supply and the pumps that supply coolant make too much noise.

You need a combination of thorough preparation and luck to counter a sub. One reason why most countries have anti-sub warfare as their premier agenda during international exercises. Once a sub is found out, it gets very dangerous for the sub and will have to try and run away or else the faster and better equipped surface ships will chase and clobber it.

Chinese capability may surpass that of the US when it comes to diesel electric subs detection. So, there is no guarantee the Gotland may work the same way it worked against USN. Same for U-212, Scorpene, Agosta etc.

 

[Zebra]

^^^ is that Gotland sub up for sale...?? if that sub can surpass US defenses... that too of a CBG...hell paki and chini navy have to scrap their anti sub warships as junks....!!

There is a thread, about the Swedish subs..... :thumb:
http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/indian-navy/21089-should-india-buy-swedish-submarines.html

 

[Adux]

Vikramditya Hanger, Really Tiny for the ship that size