INS Vikramaditya (Adm Gorshkov) aircraft carrier

[Dinesh_Kumar]

Oh they are smarter than that....
1st they say ' "Vik free, buy plane only"
After we were committed and in the docks, they started escalation / price increase / time over run, etc.
I read that their Carrier Building Skill was lost, and Indians paid for them to regain it.
In hindsight, should have bought that damn Brit carrier, like the other 2 previously....

Totally, we paid about 3 Billion USD for Vik, which is quite eye opening for a "free" Carrier.

Next time they offer "free", let them keep it, Thank You very Much.

Other options we had were Italy and Spain. Expensive , yes.
But At least, their shipyards are more professional than the Soviet Junk

we have to ask them give us some complementary with Vikramaditya, , like fighter jets .

 

[Ankit Purohit]

Oh they are smarter than that....
1st they say ' "Vik free, buy plane only"
After we were committed and in the docks, they started escalation / price increase / time over run, etc.
I read that their Carrier Building Skill was lost, and Indians paid for them to regain it.
In hindsight, should have bought that damn Brit carrier, like the other 2 previously....

Totally, we paid about 3 Billion USD for Vik, which is quite eye opening for a "free" Carrier.

Next time they offer "free", let them keep it, Thank You very Much.

Other options we had were Italy and Spain. Expensive , yes.
But At least, their shipyards are more professional than the Soviet Junk

You are right bro but i was just asking because we are the biggest buyer

 

[Somreet Bhattacharya]

Okkay...where in the world would you get a STOBAR carrier for $3 bn??...give me that and I accept your arguments...it was never a bad deal, the carrier came for free and the contract always had the clause that refit would be charged, why do you think we were cheated there?

 

[ace009]

Okkay...where in the world would you get a STOBAR carrier for $3 bn??...give me that and I accept your arguments...it was never a bad deal, the carrier came for free and the contract always had the clause that refit would be charged, why do you think we were cheated there?

The current generation of US Nimitz class CVNs (CATOBAR) $4-5 Billion to build.

$3 Bn for a tiny STOBAR carrier seems too much to me.

 

[arnabmit]

Nimitz class CVNs cost less because it is a part of series production.

IAC1 (INS Vikrant) also costs $5bn, same displacement as INS Vikramaditya.

Now compare $2.3bn of virtually new Vikramaditya to $5bm of brand new IAC1 and tell me if it was a good deal or not.

The current generation of US Nimitz class CVNs (CATOBAR) $4-5 Billion to build.

$3 Bn for a tiny STOBAR carrier seems too much to me.

 

[lookieloo]

The current generation of US Nimitz class CVNs (CATOBAR) $4-5 Billion to build.

$3 Bn for a tiny STOBAR carrier seems too much to me.

The ship itself actually cost ~2.4 billion. The last Nimitz-class we built cost 6.2 billion, and the carrier we're building now will cost 13.5 billion (includes ~5 billion R&D since it's a new class). India's not getting a totally raw deal here; it's no bargain, but it's not a rip-off either. The real question is how Russian construction will affect operational costs and longevity; will it be like a Russian rifle or a Russian car?

 

[Somreet Bhattacharya]

Well I don't know about Russian cars, but Russian rifles are the ones that are keeping the Americans on their toes for the last 50 years...so I don't doubt the quality of them...so we better not discuss it here...
Coming to the Vikramaditya, it was a Kiev Class carrier that was converted to a new one, fully refurbished..with a ski-jump and totally new weaponry..which is as good as a new one, You will very little of the old carrier in it...except parts of the design...I think it is a pretty good deal for $2.3 Bn even...I think this was clarified by the former Navy Chief too....

 

[nirranj]

Okkay...where in the world would you get a STOBAR carrier for $3 bn??...give me that and I accept your arguments...it was never a bad deal, the carrier came for free and the contract always had the clause that refit would be charged, why do you think we were cheated there?

Agree. but the mistake we did is that the refit should have been done in India. The Chinese brought the Varyag and refitted it in their shipyards. this gives them the valuable lessons on carrier building. We would have benefited even better if the ship was refitted in India. instead the Russians learnt that.

 

[p2prada]

The current generation of US Nimitz class CVNs (CATOBAR) $4-5 Billion to build.

$6 Billion and the rate is over 10 years old. And the reason why it was less expensive was because of the volumes built. This amount is without the carrier air wing of course.

$3 Bn for a tiny STOBAR carrier seems too much to me.

This price is very cheap. Anyway Gorky (45000 T, 30 aircraft) costs around $2.33 Billion. A slightly heavier Elizabeth class (65000 T, 40 aircraft) has exceeded $10 Billion.

New supercarriers are nearing $10 Billion today in construction costs alone while Gorky comes with the R&D costs involved.

Had we built a 40000 T carrier in Italy, it should have come to at least $5-6 Billion with R&D costs. That's double or triple what Gorky costs.

The real question is how Russian construction will affect operational costs and longevity; will it be like a Russian rifle or a Russian car?

Russian ships have always been good. You won't find anybody complaining once the teething issues are fixed. So, Russian rifles.

 

[nirranj]

Any news on the Carriers trials??

 

[Neil]

Night takeoff exercise

 

[Somreet Bhattacharya]

Agree. but the mistake we did is that the refit should have been done in India. The Chinese brought the Varyag and refitted it in their shipyards. this gives them the valuable lessons on carrier building. We would have benefited even better if the ship was refitted in India. instead the Russians learnt that.

Do you really think that would be possible? btw the Chinese Aircraft Carrier is on the trial phase, let it float and then we can speak about it.

 

[nirranj]

Do you really think that would be possible? btw the Chinese Aircraft Carrier is on the trial phase, let it float and then we can speak about it.

Yes, I think so it is possible. If not how are we building a Aircraft carrier without any previous construction experience? Russians too gave up Carrier construction two decades back and Sevmash never built a aircraft carrier.. Now the delay is mostly because of our under estimation of the amount of work need to be done and Sevmash's inexperience. This delay and cost escalation (would have been lesser) if had happened in a Indian Ship yard would have resulted in capacity addition and skill development... We could have paid less for a Russian Technical assistance...

And China has more than once said that Liaoning is a test platform... If this holds out true then they have done the correct thing...

 

[arnabmit]

Yes, I think so it is possible. If not how are we building a Aircraft carrier without any previous construction experience? Russians too gave up Carrier construction two decades back and Sevmash never built a aircraft carrier.. Now the delay is mostly because of our under estimation of the amount of work need to be done and Sevmash's inexperience. This delay and cost escalation (would have been lesser) if had happened in a Indian Ship yard would have resulted in capacity addition and skill development... We could have paid less for a Russian Technical assistance...

And China has more than once said that Liaoning is a test platform... If this holds out true then they have done the correct thing...

Only thing is that if we would have refurbished it ourselves, then it would have been operational by 2016 instead of 2013 and would have cost $4bn instead of $2.3bn

 

[nirranj]

Only thing is that if we would have refurbished it ourselves, then it would have been operational by 2016 instead of 2013 and would have cost $4bn instead of $2.3bn

Wont it have been a useful learning for the IAC series's construction... Plus we are already refurbishing (not a complete overhaul, bur we have time to time updated the Viraat's systems in dry dock refits) viraat time to time. And even if it has been 4 billion we would have created some jobs in India. Plus salaries in India will be in the lower sides.

But any how its a past thing, We should be careful in what we choose for in future...

 

[t_co]

$6 Billion and the rate is over 10 years old. And the reason why it was less expensive was because of the volumes built. This amount is without the carrier air wing of course.



This price is very cheap. Anyway Gorky (45000 T, 30 aircraft) costs around $2.33 Billion. A slightly heavier Elizabeth class (65000 T, 40 aircraft) has exceeded $10 Billion.

New supercarriers are nearing $10 Billion today in construction costs alone while Gorky comes with the R&D costs involved.

Had we built a 40000 T carrier in Italy, it should have come to at least $5-6 Billion with R&D costs. That's double or triple what Gorky costs.



Russian ships have always been good. You won't find anybody complaining once the teething issues are fixed. So, Russian rifles.

I just hope it doesn't end up like a Russian sub. (You know, the kind that chokes its sailors to death en masse)

 

[arnabmit]

so stop using them.

I just hope it doesn't end up like a Russian sub. (You know, the kind that chokes its sailors to death en masse)

 

[t_co]

so stop using them.

We try not to, unlike certain other Asian nations

 

[arnabmit]

Try not to? Yea yea, whatever!

We try not to, unlike certain other Asian nations

 

[t_co]

Try not to? Yea yea, whatever!

Of course, China's domestic sub development budget is more than 25x India's.