Infrastructure and Energy Sector

[Haldilal]

Ya'll Nibbiars

 

[Bhaubai]

Very good work being done to improve the condition of my small railway station

 

[dfcool]

India should stick with IT services, because manufacturing consumes more Energy

Gems of Rajan

World cannot afford India to follow China's manufacturing model, says Raghuram Rajan

"Weightless services also consume little energy on the way to the final consumer, unlike manufactured goods. Export-led services growth will be much less environmentally harmful – the world cannot afford India to follow Chinas path, even if it were open to it," former RBI Governor Raghuram Rajan...

economictimes.indiatimes.com

 

[Coalmine]

It is fine europe and porkis are using Gas else coal price will increase.
We are fine with coal

 

[Abdus Salem killed]

India should stick with IT services, because manufacturing consumes more Energy

Gems of Rajan

World cannot afford India to follow China's manufacturing model, says Raghuram Rajan

"Weightless services also consume little energy on the way to the final consumer, unlike manufactured goods. Export-led services growth will be much less environmentally harmful – the world cannot afford India to follow Chinas path, even if it were open to it," former RBI Governor Raghuram Rajan...

economictimes.indiatimes.com

Ex, rbi no wonder our country is looked down upon
Who needs enemies when we have these guys at the top

 

[Blademaster]

We need to phase out coal power plant & technology. They have gone the way of whalers and whale oil. It is obsolete and cause more problems in the long run than benefits. We are better off in building more nuclear power plants, solar power, wind power, chemical battery storage and hydro energy storage. Our reserves of coal will not last that long because we do not have that good quality of coal. To get the same energy output we have to burn at least 2 or 3 times the coal burned in the West.

 

[ezsasa]

We need to phase out coal power plant & technology. They have gone the way of whalers and whale oil. It is obsolete and cause more problems in the long run than benefits. We are better off in building more nuclear power plants, solar power, wind power, chemical battery storage and hydro energy storage. Our reserves of coal will not last that long because we do not have that good quality of coal. To get the same energy output we have to burn at least 2 or 3 times the coal burned in the West.

baseload has to be with either coal or nuclear. coal is cheap, coal power plants are less complicated than nuclear powerplants. nuclear tech is a restricted technology.

the way the western corporates backing "rules based order" responded to russia, we should not be giving up coal. we should keep our options open, and GoI has already considered hence the recent COP commitments.

 

[Concard]

5-10 years EU might face hardship but after that they will be pretty energy independent due to plenty of Capex and technology that they have.

You will build new coal based plants and 10 years later when EU might've shifted towards more renewables they will impose penalty/tax on imports that aren't "green" , so better start Green energy now while their economy is getting screwed.

Maybe just Keep coal for domestic based industries.

Hang on cow boy, where did you hear that EU will ever become energy independent? France which produces 70% of electricity through Nuclear power is not energy independent. With respect to renewables Germany has been investing lot of money into Solar and Wind since 2010 and they are now getting battered without imported Russian energy. They started burning more coal ever since they started shutting down Nuclear power plants. And even that coal is imported from Russia. Spain which doesn't have cold winters and has tremendous potential for Solar is not energy independent.

Renewables will not save Europe. They don't have the climatic conditions to switch to 50% renewables let alone 100% renewables. Ever heard of X-links project? This is a project between UK and Morocco. Morocco is going to generate electricity in their vast desert through Solar and Wind and transmit all this electricity to far away UK through high voltage direct current (HVDC). This is a project which is ongoing. Look it up. Colder countries became rich by burning fossil fuels. Now with greater consideration towards greener planet they are forced to switch to renewables which their countries are not suited for and they have to rely on hotter poorer countries for their energy.

Also look up "Sun cable" project. A project between Singapore and Australia where Australia will supply electricity to Singapore from renewables with the use of HVDC. The world is changing. Countries which have sun shine have an edge when it comes to producing cheaper electricity.

 

[Blademaster]

baseload has to be with either coal or nuclear. coal is cheap, coal power plants are less complicated than nuclear powerplants. nuclear tech is a restricted technology.

the way the western corporates backing "rules based order" responded to russia, we should not be giving up coal. we should keep our options open, and GoI has already considered hence the recent COP commitments.

Coal is cheap in the short term but end up costing more in the long run. Nuclear power plants pay off in the long run. Yes the start up costs are greater than coal power plant's startup costs but overall the operational cost is much less than coal power plants. There's a reason why coal power plants are being phased out en masse out in the US and the West and it has nothing to do with climate change.

 

[ezsasa]

Coal is cheap in the short term but end up costing more in the long run. Nuclear power plants pay off in the long run. Yes the start up costs are greater than coal power plant's startup costs but overall the operational cost is much less than coal power plants. There's a reason why coal power plants are being phased out en masse out in the US and the West and it has nothing to do with climate change.

if it was the case that we have our own commercially valid nuclear tech, your argument will be valid for India too. but we don't.
can we say with certainty that "rules based order" wallahs will not deny us supply of nuclear fuel giving some lame excuse, 10-20 years from now? no we can't.

paying one or two ₹ more per unit is a risk mitigation.

 

[Blademaster]

if it was the case that we have our own commercially valid nuclear tech, your argument will be valid for India too. but we don't.
can we say with certainty that "rules based order" wallahs will not deny us supply of nuclear fuel giving some lame excuse, 10-20 years from now? no we can't.

That is why we need to invest in thorium nuclear tech as this is the only way to become energy independent.

 

[NutCracker]

renewable is fine if we control the supply chain. Right now we are importing 80% of the value from china. Wont change much in the future as the PLI is still primarily looking at modules and cells, whereas the ingots, silicon etc make up >60% of the value.

But even for coal plants, our very high IQ politicians and even PSUs used to hapilly import all the machinery, boilers etc straight from China, from Harbin electric, Shanghai Electric or even got thier state owned firms like SEPCO3 to build them. Look no further than Adaniji

https://www.adanipower.com/-/media/Project/Power/Newsroom/MediaCoverage/ChinaFirmsPowerRisingIndianEmpire.pdf?la=en

Look how proud he is.

Chinese power plant contractors take half of Indian market share

China's SEPCO III took more than 20 percent of Indian power plant building market, aid Lu Yanxia, director of SEPCO III’s Mumbai Office. All Chinese power plant contractors occupy less than 50 percent of market share in India.

asian-power.com

Shanghai Electric to develop projects, supply equipment in India

Shanghai Electric Group develop large-scale power plants and wind power projects in India based on its agreement with CESC.

asian-power.com

Mundra Thermal Power Project in Gujarat state, India

Mundra Thermal Power Project is a coal-based thermal plant with a power generating capacity of 4,620MW in the state of Gujarat in India.

www.nsenergybusiness.com

Can you quote your source of Ingots costing 60% of the solar panel value chain..

 

[NutCracker]

Hang on cow boy, where did you hear that EU will ever become energy independent? France which produces 70% of electricity through Nuclear power is not energy independent.

THat incident is recent phenomena because of their pathetic management that their 60% nuclear plants went for maintenance at once . Everything will be normal for France by year end.

With respect to renewables Germany has been investing lot of money into Solar and Wind since 2010 and they are now getting battered without imported Russian energy. They started burning more coal ever since they started shutting down Nuclear power plants.

Germany fucked up because they didn't think about COMPLEMENTRY SOURCE for the solar panel.
Gas plants ramp up 3X faster than coal so it were the perfect combination till Russia declared war. Had they invested more into nuke power simultaneously they wont have been facing much electricity deficiency.

SOme metal plants / industries need Hydrogen , and Coal is burnt to extract that and EU already had plans impose green tax on Indian Steel unless we use Green Hydrogen. Thats why you are seeing push in green hydrogen sector.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

The West’s Green Delusions Empowered Putin

While we banned plastic straws, Russia drilled and doubled nuclear energy production.

www.commonsense.news

Very good , pls ignore the anti Putin rhetoric.

My issue with Modi is he looks to much sucked up into this green energy and climate activism nonsense. When we should be building 4000 MW Coal Power Plants with latest technology backed by captive reserves of coal in East and North India, we are building expensive and less reliable solar and wind farms at expensive cost.

India is second in world in terms of coal power. And green energy/alternative sources initiatives of Modi were motivated India's own needs, own rising air pollution and needs for energy independence.
Energy is last thing where India has ever bowed down to foreign pressure. Be it buying energy from Iraq or Iran or Russia. Isn't it?

 

[afako]

Modi is not doing it out of love for green power. The primary goal has always been to become Energy Independent. Now is the best time to start.

I understand your logic of energy independence, saving of forex and other valid reasonings. My point is that there is underinvestment in fossil fuels and over investment in less reliable power sources. Our per capita electricity consumption is still much lower than world average.

 

[afako]

36 GW new coal power plants are under proposal.
need less to say, with solar power plants you don't have to worry about running coal trains hence eliminating input costs.
=====
After China, India has most proposed coal-powered plants: Re ..

Read more at:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...ofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst

Compared to China we are doing less than required. As I mentioned in earlier post, there is under investment in creating fresh thermal capacity. We should be building plants like there is no tomorrow.

The share of renewables is still a rounding figure as compared to total capacity despite trillions in subsidies and anti fossil fuel narrative in last 2 decades.

 

[afako]

India is second in world in terms of coal power. And green energy/alternative sources initiatives of Modi were motivated India's own needs, own rising air pollution and needs for energy independence.
Energy is last thing where India has ever bowed down to foreign pressure. Be it buying energy from Iraq or Iran or Russia. Isn't it?

My point remains we are under investing in coal. We need more exposure in coal than we already have. Solar, Green Hydrogen, Wind are good as balancing power sources complimenting coal and gas. It cannot be allowed to replace coal.

 

[Arpuster]

The fact is that our new coal plants that are proposed and under construction are now actually based on super critical and ultra super critical technology which will mean they will be more efficient than older coal plants which will be gradually phased out. This will ultimately lead to reduction in emissions due to efficient coal burning and other other systems.

Regarding the import of solar panels/modules from China, we have the supply chain but it is more due to our domestic suppliers are exporting to US and getting more profits than supplying to domestic market. We will have to bear that for sometime but eventually during repowering and later part of decade I believe this will all be indigenous.

 

[ym888]

My point remains we are under investing in coal. We need more exposure in coal than we already have. Solar, Green Hydrogen, Wind are good as balancing power sources complimenting coal and gas. It cannot be allowed to replace coal.

Yes, India does not need to think too much about environmental protection, that is the responsibility of developed countries.



The responsibility of Indian govt is to develop economy.

 

[ezsasa]

Compared to China we are doing less than required. As I mentioned in earlier post, there is under investment in creating fresh thermal capacity. We should be building plants like there is no tomorrow.

The share of renewables is still a rounding figure as compared to total capacity despite trillions in subsidies and anti fossil fuel narrative in last 2 decades.

"We should be building plants like there is no tomorrow."
this happened during UPA, power sector went bankrupt. it took almost five years to clear that mess, the effects still remain.