Infrastructure and Energy Sector

omaebakabaka

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Building beautiful cities is not a measure of economic activity. Egypt is a crackpot nation that has built all this through foreign debt. Utterly financially unviable.
China is a better case but even they have overbuilt infrastructure and housing. In their case it’s all locally financed and built using local industries. Still they are facing capital issues now. India has a much better financial system.
What we are lacking is urban bodies with proper financial muscle and administrative capabilities. This is where we need to focus.
India built what exactly? Nothing of the world class but doing what is minimally necessary to move forward. We are not yet on any lists yet to compare to other countries. Few positive steps in correct direction but uncivilized people and local politicians with no vision will make sure everything gets dilapidated in no time. Everything that is being constructed that Haldilal sir posts like metro stations and so on look almost islamic style with the pigeon style small crevices. Fugly...

Anyone went to Ujjain recently to visit Mahakaleshwar and saw that beautification? It has no aesthetics, not stone carved, only good thing is that a wall high enough built to remove that hideous mosque out of sight as you walk along (almost).....not to mention the state of the river. All across nothing that optimizes any experience when it comes to service or maintaining something. Tourism brings so much money but yet dumbwits can't even offer basics in a civilized way in India.
 

Anupu

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India built what exactly? Nothing of the world class but doing what is minimally necessary to move forward. We are not yet on any lists yet to compare to other countries. Few positive steps in correct direction but uncivilized people and local politicians with no vision will make sure everything gets dilapidated in no time. Everything that is being constructed that Haldilal sir posts like metro stations and so on look almost islamic style with the pigeon style small crevices. Fugly...

Anyone went to Ujjain recently to visit Mahakaleshwar and saw that beautification? It has no aesthetics, not stone carved, only good thing is that a wall high enough built to remove that hideous mosque out of sight as you walk along (almost).....not to mention the state of the river. All across nothing that optimizes any experience when it comes to service or maintaining something. Tourism brings so much money but yet dumbwits can't even offer basics in a civilized way in India.
India has very good infrastructure at national and state level. Power grid railways highways. A lot of it world class. What we don’t have are good urban spaces

look I too want beautiful urban spaces but they will only come when urban bodies actually become financially and administratively strong.

See how many urban bodies can raise their own municipal bonds? How mature municipal bond markets are in India? These organisations do your bread and butter stuff the cleaning of your streets zoning waste collection fire brigades. They are often poorly run and financed. Fixing that will take some time.

read this
https://theprint.in/india/municipal...hiness-a-big-hurdle-infra-report/1872597/?amp
 

omaebakabaka

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India has very good infrastructure at national and state level. Power grid railways highways. A lot of it world class. What we don’t have are good urban spaces

look I too want beautiful urban spaces but they will only come when urban bodies actually become financially and administratively strong.

See how many urban bodies can raise their own municipal bonds? How mature municipal bond markets are in India? These organisations do your bread and butter stuff the cleaning of your streets zoning waste collection fire brigades. They are often poorly run and financed. Fixing that will take some time.

read this
https://theprint.in/india/municipal...hiness-a-big-hurdle-infra-report/1872597/?amp
Lol, those are bare minimums in a country of billions and much smaller than larger countries and densely packed. State highways are shit for the most part and national highways still hit and miss....power grid, seriously?

Forget urban, even rural is gone now....do you know how many lakes and hills of moderate sizes are destroyed across India for quarrying, its eye watering and the sand mafia everywhere clearing out streams and causing stagnant water leading to growth of useless vegetation. Simply too many uncivilized and "educated" people.....Central may have a vision that is grand but local leaders are 1000% lukkas and the general population. Leaves very little hope unless the system puts some scare into people, the filth will win the battle.

No idea what cities you are talking about that are clean.....Indore is voted the cleanest and yet it isn't by even developing world standard outside Indian subcontinent. Problem is one and same general population and local leaders. System is dead end if it continues this way.....Modiji sarkaar is the most pussy in using majority or powers given to center to bring in change....too timid. Farmers protests are one example, no prosecutions after the first protest attack and inviting the same bs again this time before election.
 

Anupu

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Lol, those are bare minimums in a country of billions and much smaller than larger countries and densely packed. State highways are shit for the most part and national highways still hit and miss....power grid, seriously?

Forget urban, even rural is gone now....do you know how many lakes and hills of moderate sizes are destroyed across India for quarrying, its eye watering and the sand mafia everywhere clearing out streams and causing stagnant water leading to growth of useless vegetation. Simply too many uncivilized and "educated" people.....Central may have a vision that is grand but local leaders are 1000% lukkas and the general population. Leaves very little hope unless the system puts some scare into people, the filth will win the battle.

No idea what cities you are talking about that are clean.....Indore is voted the cleanest and yet it isn't by even developing world standard outside Indian subcontinent. Problem is one and same general population and local leaders. System is dead end if it continues this way.....Modiji sarkaar is the most pussy in using majority or powers given to center to bring in change....too timid. Farmers protests are one example, no prosecutions after the first protest attack and inviting the same bs again this time before election.
Focus on one topic I am not interested in meanderings of your mind. You can complain all you want but you can’t produce a child in a month by impregnating 9 women. Indian state treats money as a real thing that creates limitations but helps provide stability.

compare Infrastructure with thoese with similar per capita gdp then yes. We have very good infrastructure do Americans have electrified railways like you do? Do Egyptians build dams or irrigation like you do? Does grid in south Africa serve like ours does. Scale cost we are doing a good job
 

another_armchair

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Wish our metropolitan cities had more places like these. Land locked Bangalore needs at least 4-5 of these.

Lal Bagh and Cubbon Park in Bangalore have all the space but continue to live in a bygone era.

 

Blademaster

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India has very good infrastructure at national and state level. Power grid railways highways. A lot of it world class. What we don’t have are good urban spaces

look I too want beautiful urban spaces but they will only come when urban bodies actually become financially and administratively strong.

See how many urban bodies can raise their own municipal bonds? How mature municipal bond markets are in India? These organisations do your bread and butter stuff the cleaning of your streets zoning waste collection fire brigades. They are often poorly run and financed. Fixing that will take some time.

read this
https://theprint.in/india/municipal...hiness-a-big-hurdle-infra-report/1872597/?amp
They are poorly run and managed and do not have sufficient funds because they have massive corruption and inefficiency. Once you tackle corruption and inefficiency you can do a lot further.
 

Anupu

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They are poorly run and managed and do not have sufficient funds because they have massive corruption and inefficiency. Once you tackle corruption and inefficiency you can do a lot further.
There is also the general public’s political apathy to municipal politics. Most will no their local MLA few will know the parshad or even the mayor. Politicians need to have a vested interest in performing better.
 

ezsasa

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There is also the general public’s political apathy to municipal politics. Most will no their local MLA few will know the parshad or even the mayor. Politicians need to have a vested interest in performing better.
9-5 office going public may not be aware of their local mayor and MLA, public whose work depend on municipal services (shop keepers, transporters, street vendors etc )keep track of what is happening locally, infact they are the ones who are active in local govt administration/politics, they are the ones who give and followup on petitions, to keep the affairs rolling. not just mayor and MLA, district magistrate is also a key player in this setup.
 

Haldilal

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Ya'll Nibbiars The Parunder Airport Master plans.

GHbAzAQXgAA8rwO.jpeg
GHbC35XXwAEjOsC.jpeg
 

Physx32

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Physx32

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India has very good infrastructure at national and state level. Power grid railways highways. A lot of it world class. What we don’t have are good urban spaces

look I too want beautiful urban spaces but they will only come when urban bodies actually become financially and administratively strong.

See how many urban bodies can raise their own municipal bonds? How mature municipal bond markets are in India? These organisations do your bread and butter stuff the cleaning of your streets zoning waste collection fire brigades. They are often poorly run and financed. Fixing that will take some time.

read this
https://theprint.in/india/municipal...hiness-a-big-hurdle-infra-report/1872597/?amp
Railways and highways are world class :pound:
 

omaebakabaka

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Focus on one topic I am not interested in meanderings of your mind. You can complain all you want but you can’t produce a child in a month by impregnating 9 women. Indian state treats money as a real thing that creates limitations but helps provide stability.

compare Infrastructure with thoese with similar per capita gdp then yes. We have very good infrastructure do Americans have electrified railways like you do? Do Egyptians build dams or irrigation like you do? Does grid in south Africa serve like ours does. Scale cost we are doing a good job
What topic, you can't look at these things as one isolated aspect. Its systematic and multidimensional out of which most important is population's and politicians thought process and what they prioritize when it comes to nation building.

If you want to compare similar percapita nominal even limiting to 2 or 3 times, we are no match to hygiene, cleanliness, service sector. Infra only national level generally is somewhat planned but nothing worldclass. Do not compare to high income countries and say we are top class or whatever number when you are making comments like compare to similar percapita.

Being honest when evaluating one's capabilities is the first step to bringing change. What I said is 1000% reality in India and I don't know where you live and pontificate your views and realities about India. Often state highway's lead no where and not maintained and single lane with no connecting roads to NH. This is their ability when it comes to thinking world class, starts and ends with giving biryani, color tv's and free bus rides and so on so forth. Stop saying world class about anything. Infra is developing for sure especially with Modiji sarkaar going back to seeding from Atalji time in terms of vision. But execution is hit and miss and upkeep is poor in general not to mention future upgrades. Some positive aspects are in Railways for sure, power and telecom and other things especially extension of railway into JK and North east.

Another gem, never seen any country with so much contempt respecting driving rules and compliance.....lot of trucks don't even care if their rear lights are working.....very peculiar to India not to mention high itensity high beam riding callousness.....to me very disappointing how society can be so disregarding at individual level to respect and have discipline for collective quality of life. Something fundamentally wrong in values and education system but this is the root cause when you get buttfucked by others for centuries and still keep their language, customs and political system and what not.
 
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omaebakabaka

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In Egypt, I saw huge expressways but also an apartment building partially collapsing after a spell of torrential rain. It's a weird place.

One thing we can learn from them is how to manage international tourists.
This shit (dilapidated buildings) is all over in US cities and seen even in China and some other places but yet, when there is tourism bringing money most places at local level try to keep the services at a level acceptable to tourists from developed world even if minimal. Indian costs in this sector is world class now (hotels and stuff but air fares are better) but service is piss poor. Just wnat money but no attitude to offer service, can't blame just the service providers but also domestic consumers are uncivilized in respecting facilities. City management is perhaps next to the bottom tier in the world. Very few places and I can count on my fingers that seem to be making effort to improve.

Been to US many times, drastic change, takes 100s of dollars per night but not even water is free unless you have some loyality status, same with their airfares and so on terribly expensive.....take money but barely any service to customer. Generally clean though vs SE Asia, prices are reasonable, service is acceptable, generally tourist areas are clean and maintained for the most part. Airfares are very competetive even in countries like Japan and SK.
 

nongaddarliberal

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Building regulations provide a cheap solution to our urban ugliness problem for a start. Don't know the practicality of this considering the corruption of our municipalities, but if we want to fix our aesthetic problem long before we get enough money to build China style cities, then having regulations regarding the architectural style would dramatically improve the look of our cities without requiring any more money. That is, if someone wants to build a house or commercial space in a city, their building HAS to match the aesthetic requirement set forth by the municipality, such as having to match the style of the surrounding buildings, having to have a certain colour and material finish which looks good, certain style of roof etc. For buildings already constructed, there can be a cancelation of relevant taxes for a year or two if they renovate it to match the set standard. This means that there is no financial burden on the government itself, but those constructing buildings have to ensure that their buildings aren't eyesores and match the theme of their locality. Europe has this as standard, and even the Americans have such rules for residential areas.



In towns such as this in Germany, even if a new building is constructed (and you'll be surprised how many of these buildings are new), it must by law match the appearance set forth by the municipality. In this case, it is to match the medieval appearance they're going for.
images (14).jpeg



In India's case, it may optimistically look something like this
re-imagining-indian-cities-my-hometown-using-ai-v0-suxqhbbtwb8b1.jpg



But in no scenario does any developed country allow a street to look like something below, which 90% of urban India looks like
Screenshot (125).png


Most of us don't really want skyscrapers or bullet trains to fit some definition of modernity. Most people just want beauty and cleanliness, which can be achieved even in unplanned cities like what India has.
 
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indiatester

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Building regulations provide a cheap solution to our urban ugliness problem for a start. Don't know the practicality of this considering the corruption of our municipalities, but if we want to fix our aesthetic problem long before we get enough money to build China style cities, then having regulations regarding the architectural style would dramatically improve the look of our cities without requiring any more money. That is, if someone wants to build a house or commercial space in a city, their building HAS to match the aesthetic requirement set forth by the municipality, such as having to match the style of the surrounding buildings, having to have a certain colour and material finish which looks good, certain style of roof etc. For buildings already constructed, there can be a cancelation of relevant taxes for a year or two if they renovate it to match the set standard. This means that there is no financial burden on the government itself, but those constructing buildings have to ensure that their buildings aren't eyesores and match the theme of their locality. Europe has this as standard, and even the Americans have such rules for residential areas.



In towns such as this in Germany, even if a new building is constructed (and you'll be surprised how many of these buildings are new), it must by law match the appearance set forth by the municipality. In this case, it is to match the medieval appearance they're going for.
View attachment 242274


In India's case, it may optimistically look something like this
View attachment 242276


But in no scenario does any developed country allow a street to look like something below, which 90% of urban India looks like
View attachment 242277

Most of us don't really want skyscrapers or bullet trains to fit some definition of modernity. Most people just want beauty and cleanliness, which can be achieved even in unplanned cities like what India has.
I am from software background and have worked on a lot of legacy systems.
India is that legacy system where we carry the debt of what was planned for a small population grow to the current unmanageable stage because of various reasons.

For example, cities have grown to gobble up villages surrounding them with their roads. Its extremely hard to get any improvement done without hurting some existing citizen for no fault of theirs. Just because the city grew, we cant expect them to give up a house that they probably got from their ancestors.

A lot of it is directly attributable to incompetent planners. Even corrupt ones are better than the incompetent ones (we usually get the corrupt and incompetent).
 

FalconSlayers

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Building regulations provide a cheap solution to our urban ugliness problem for a start. Don't know the practicality of this considering the corruption of our municipalities, but if we want to fix our aesthetic problem long before we get enough money to build China style cities, then having regulations regarding the architectural style would dramatically improve the look of our cities without requiring any more money. That is, if someone wants to build a house or commercial space in a city, their building HAS to match the aesthetic requirement set forth by the municipality, such as having to match the style of the surrounding buildings, having to have a certain colour and material finish which looks good, certain style of roof etc. For buildings already constructed, there can be a cancelation of relevant taxes for a year or two if they renovate it to match the set standard. This means that there is no financial burden on the government itself, but those constructing buildings have to ensure that their buildings aren't eyesores and match the theme of their locality. Europe has this as standard, and even the Americans have such rules for residential areas.



In towns such as this in Germany, even if a new building is constructed (and you'll be surprised how many of these buildings are new), it must by law match the appearance set forth by the municipality. In this case, it is to match the medieval appearance they're going for.
View attachment 242274


In India's case, it may optimistically look something like this
View attachment 242276


But in no scenario does any developed country allow a street to look like something below, which 90% of urban India looks like
View attachment 242277

Most of us don't really want skyscrapers or bullet trains to fit some definition of modernity. Most people just want beauty and cleanliness, which can be achieved even in unplanned cities like what India has.
Some places in India have that but too tiny to be relevant.
 

nongaddarliberal

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I am from software background and have worked on a lot of legacy systems.
India is that legacy system where we carry the debt of what was planned for a small population grow to the current unmanageable stage because of various reasons.

For example, cities have grown to gobble up villages surrounding them with their roads. Its extremely hard to get any improvement done without hurting some existing citizen for no fault of theirs. Just because the city grew, we cant expect them to give up a house that they probably got from their ancestors.

A lot of it is directly attributable to incompetent planners. Even corrupt ones are better than the incompetent ones (we usually get the corrupt and incompetent).
Nothing about my post was about making anyone give up any houses. It was about regulating new buildings to match an aesthetic standard, and providing incentives for older buildings to renovate it match that same standard.

In that software analogy, it is tailored for the legacy system.
 
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