Infrastructure and Energy Sector

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Ya'll Nibbiars The BEST was Profitable before 2004. Any Public transportation system can be profitable as long as its managed properlys.
That should be the case with countrywide networks like Railways and NHAI.

A better local public transportation system when it benefits city overall than profitability. Management is just a word here because when the system with start to focus on "managing profits" than squeezing itself to ease the city, the profits will come for sure.
The purpose of this system will go down the drain though.

In case of cities, a good public transportation system and a profitable public transportation system won't come together. And latter one isn't preferable for any sane administrator.
 

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So you can still upgrade and be profitables.
Profitability needs the increase of fares to high rate necessarily. And attracting more fares requires low fare cost =loss. An upgraded metro/BRTS with subsidized rate despite monetary loss is a success in my view than an upgraded and costly system with low number of fares despite profit.

A profit making public transport is disgrace to city if people are preferring cars and taxis over it. I hope you get what I'm saying.
 

karn

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Profitability needs the increase of fares to high rate necessarily. And attracting more fares requires low fare cost =loss. An upgraded metro/BRTS with subsidized rate despite monetary loss is a success in my view than an upgraded and costly system with low fare.

A profit making public transport is disgrace to city if people are preferring cars and taxis over it. I hope you get what I'm saying.
Why not look at Hong Kong for example .. they have a super profitable metro .
Besides if the govt is picking up the tab for the capital cost , the running cost should be less than ticket collections . If not the public transport system becomes shit .
 

Haldilal

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It has more to do with budget and less with leaders' IQ. Making western style calibrated flat wide roads with properly sized and paved sidewalks/footpaths shall cost a bomb.

The quality and quantity balance of roads in India is reasonable when regarded with India's population density, quality of coil and tar available and climatic conditions (which makes Indian environment exceptionally dusty).

Public transports especially intra district, intra city/zone transports from metros to BRTS to bullet trains, were built to bear public burdens and boost economy rather than making profits. So they make losses everywhere in world.

Success of a public transport is not measured by it's sales profits but the number of fares it carries. Cause economic advantage to people of city compensates the loss. I cannot imagine living in Delhi without Metro. That will be a nightmare.
Ya'll Nibbiars The BEST was Profitable before 2004. Any Public transportation system can be profitable as long as its managed properlys.

That should be the case with countrywide networks like Railways and NHAI.

A better local public transportation system when it benefits city overall than profitability. Management is just word here because when the system with start to focus on "managing profits" than squeezing itself to ease the city, the profits will come for sure.

The purpose of this system will go down the drain though.
Ya'll Nibbiars The BEST was much better before 2004 and was also profitable after that its came in red an also no upgrade in service. So you can still upgrade and be profitables.

Profitability needs the increase of fares to high rate necessarily. And attracting more fares requires low fare cost =loss. An upgraded metro/BRTS with subsidized rate despite monetary loss is a success in my view than an upgraded and costly system with low number of fares despite profit.

A profit making public transport is disgrace to city if people are preferring cars and taxis over it. I hope you get what I'm saying.
Ya'll Nibbiars NO NO NO NO, Marxist Ideology and that from a Mod will never be tolerated here.

:cowboy:

There is no marxism in saying that public transport is made to bear public. For earning profits, plenty of taxis and private transporters are there. They are enough and loss making public transport should be abolished if it's all about profit.
Ya'll Nibbiars There are ways to be profitable so this your saying of Passnegr will be burdened by pares is nothing but one way thinking.

Without launching a side business of selling waste or producing electricity from tracks/on train solar panels, it's still impractical.
Ya'll Nibbiars You are forgetting Advertisement, Lease, Renting, Land Development, Development fees, Consultings and other sources which can be as large as passenger fares
 
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Indx TechStyle

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Why not look at Hong Kong for example .. they have a super profitable metro .
Per capita GDP and fares, maintenance.
the running cost should be less than ticket collections . If not the public transport system becomes shit .
Urban metro systems (bus and trains) are luxury things in front of national transports just because of the first class maintenance besides running.

I doubt that they can be made profitable without looking actually shitty like a third class Railway wagon. That's only way you can bring running cost against fares down without exponentially increasing fares to equivalent of taxis.
 

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Ya'll Nibbiars The BEST was Profitable before 2004. Any Public transportation system can be profitable as long as its managed properlys.


Ya'll Nibbiars NO No NO NO, Marxist Ideology and that from a Mod will never be tolerated here.

:cowboy:
There is no marxism in saying that public transport is made to bear public. For earning profits, plenty of taxis and private transporters are there. They are enough and loss making public transport should be abolished if it's all about profit.
 

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Ya'll Nibbiars There are ways to be profitable so this your saying of Passnegr will be burdened by pares is nothing but one way thinking.
Without launching a side business of selling waste or producing electricity from tracks/on train solar panels, it's still impractical.
 

karn

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Without launching a side business of selling waste or producing electricity from tracks/on train solar panels, it's still impractical.
In connection to this and Hong Kong . Biggest side business is shopping area in or near metro stations.
Tokyo metro owns buildings near the metro line ffs.
But my point is if a public transport system is dependent on the govt budget it will turn to shit .
 

Arjun Mk1A

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In connection to this and Hong Kong . Biggest side business is shopping area in or near metro stations.
Tokyo metro owns buildings near the metro line ffs.
But my point is if a public transport system is dependent on the govt budget it will turn to shit .

MTR owns the shopping malls. Basically they build malls on top of their stations. The mall contains everything from Supermarket to Food stalls. Basically it is a big source of income.

On the other Indian Metro we build them on the median of road, thus we don't have any dedicated space to implement them. Whatever space we have we are giving it to commercial activity.
 

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In connection to this and Hong Kong . Biggest side business is shopping area in or near metro stations.
Tokyo metro owns buildings near the metro line ffs.
So what do you think that shopping malls around Delhi Metro, how profitable they could be in case of India? Most people in Delhi costly food at stalls at metro stations.

You are strictly pushing Hong Kong, the unique case here with higher per capita income and population density which is not a case with most of the world.
But my point is if a public transport system is dependent on the govt budget it will turn to shit .
How please?
The logic I am applying that if governments keeps compensating losses to support population transport with first class maintenance, the things would go on as it is. But in case they are pushed for profitability either quality of service should come down (maintenance; push for private vehicles) or passenger fares should be kept higher, which would lower down daily passenger load too (which isn't a purpose of public transport at all).

I have been maintaining this reason for me understood why governments around world bear losses but try to maintain a quality and affordable local public transport since they consider losses compensated by economy of the city. Or city will become a big mess.

I would like to get contradicted. Though with a good explanatory response than just see Hong Kong and malls that can be related to all countries.
 

karn

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So what do you think that shopping malls around Delhi Metro, how profitable they could be in case of India? Most people in Delhi costly food at stalls at metro stations.

You are strictly pushing Hong Kong, the unique case here with higher per capita income and population density which is not a case with most of the world.
THis case is already there in India . Heck its part of railways plan to turn profitable.

How please?
The logic I am applying that if governments keeps compensating losses to support population transport with first class maintenance, the things would go on as it is. But in case they are pushed for profitability either quality of service should come down (maintenance; push for private vehicles) or passenger fares should be kept higher, which would lower down daily passenger load too (which isn't a purpose of public transport at all).

I have been maintaining this reason for me understood why governments around world bear losses but try to maintain a quality and affordable local public transport since they consider losses compensated by economy of the city. Or city will become a big mess.

I would like to get contradicted. Though with a good explanatory response than just see Hong Kong and malls that can be related to all countries.
In our case state + central govt already front 40% of the upfront cost.
All governments state and central run deficits .. Anything counting on the budget is always in danger of getting cut . The assumption that government will always fund something is erroneous.
I get your point about govt spending for public good in this case services are extended to low ridership areas but losses in these areas are always expected to be balanced by high ridership areas.

Governments around the world do not bear the losses .. the transport company in question keeps going into debt before it is privatized or just shut down. Profitability has a direct correlation with actual usability of a system hence it is a metric that is always looked after by those that give the green light for such projects.
 

FalconSlayers

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Yamuna city (YEIDA authority) Metro rail of 35km length between Greater Noida and Jewar.


DMRC proposed the link metro from Knowledge Park-2 to Jewar Airport at the cost of Rs 5,329 crore.

The proposed metro rail line will be 35 km long with six stations and parallel to the Yamuna Expressway. This will benefit the people of Yamuna city along with Noida, Greater Noida and Delhi.

In the project, 4.18 km of the line will be underground, while 31.26 km of elevated line will be built. About Rs 5329 crore will be spent on the project.

According to a report by Nav Bharat Times, DMRC estimates that this link metro rail line can be built in 1.5 years.

Also, YEIDA plans to build another link metro rail line between the upcoming Noida airport and the existing IGI airport in Delhi (RRTS maybe?).

 

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The assumption that government will always fund something is erroneous.
Not really, it rather depends upon the thing. Government may not forever provide us insurances and pensions etc. but government will always bear the cost of infrastructure and public transport (until a magical star trek like technological appears) and new things come to our life.
I get your point about govt spending for public good in this case services are extended to low ridership areas but losses in these areas are always expected to be balanced by high ridership areas.
High ridership areas don't compensate for anything as size of network and maintenance cost is high inceasing. Nor government crazily spends money for every city regardless of its economic output size (reason why Delhi has a metro and Chandigarh doesn't). Low ridership areas will make losses simply insane.

As we have discussed earlier, most of urban public transport in world make loss but governments continue it as it compensates by boosting economy. Public transport is supposed to boost mobility and economy.
1. You can either properly manage the city with a cheap & good transport which even prevents people from buying cars. Indirectly saves national forex on oil too. You off course have to give them lucrative offer what keeps them in profit that they give up the comfort of personal vehicle.

2. or you can make public transport profitable, boost the amount of cars on roads, push the levels of air pollution, choke a densely populated city like Delhi with insane jams eventually leading to decline of city economy in long term.


This is not US/Canada/Australia. This is Asia and it's problems are more relatable to Europe.
That's all.
 

ezsasa

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Safe & adequate drinking water through individual tap connections is perhaps the most imp development happening in India.
So far it has covered:
- 3.6 lakh crore ₹ budget
- 52% rural households (10 crore)
- 84.2% of govt schools
- 80% of anganwadi
Impact: 66% reduction in water-borne diseases

 
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FalconSlayers

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There is massive construction going on in Taloja Navi mumbai, as part of CIDCO's mass housing project. There are easily over 100 cranes on this site. Such construction scenes should be normalised in every city in the country. These prefabricated apartment towers beat slums any day of the weekView attachment 167346

View attachment 167340View attachment 167341View attachment 167342View attachment 167343View attachment 167344View attachment 167345

View attachment 167339
CIDCO is gonna build more spending a whopping ₹18,900 crores or $2.5 bn.
1661012896012.png
 

LondonParisTokyo

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Safe & adequate drinking water through individual tap connections is perhaps the most imp development happening in India.
So far it has covered:
- 3.6 lakh crore ₹ budget
- 52% rural households (10 crore)
- 84.2% of govt schools
- 80% of anganwadi
Impact: 66% reduction in water-borne diseases

Is the water being iodinated?
 

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