Indo China War Simulation Thread

Joe Shearer

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@Joe Shearer @mist_consecutive @Love Charger
(A2/AD) systems such as sophisticated air defenses, electronic warfare, and long-range precision-guided missiles—might play a role in Chinese operations along the LAC. However, their effects would likely be much more limited as The mountainous terrain significantly limits the effective ranges of sensors and communications networks. At the same time, the dispersed Indian army formations might put forward on the border make poor targets for long-range precision weaponry. China could use long-range precision fires to strike airfields, roads, railways, and other key infrastructure that India’s armed forces rely on to respond to an incursion. However, given the number of potential Indian targets (in contrast to the limited number of U.S. bases in the Western Pacific), a major strike campaign will likely not be worth the cost or the risk of escalation from China’s perspective. It is far more likely that China would use its precision fires to disrupt and degrade forces in the vicinity of its offensive, while also isolating the battlespace. Even so , china's battlefield strategy is filled with optimism. Note - These scenarios don't include an indian counter response
Responding to the move made by @mist_consecutive will require playing the role of the PLA, GF and Air Force included.

In that role, certainly all advantage will be taken of his having placed two concentrations on two sharply defined spots, where they are completely vulnerable to long-range precision guided missiles and cruise missiles in general.
China could use long-range precision fires to strike airfields, roads, railways, and other key infrastructure that India’s armed forces rely on to respond to an incursion.
China will respond to degrade land, air and rail communications with the Indian Army detachments placed by @mist_consecutive.
 

Joe Shearer

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It is far more likely that China would use its precision fires to disrupt and degrade forces in the vicinity of its offensive, while also isolating the battlespace. Even so , china's battlefield strategy is filled with optimism.
Today, yes, the outlook for the PLA is optimistic. That is why I would place the game-play further down, 2030, or frankly, even later; for now, 2030.
 

Joe Shearer

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U guys considering Pakistan's involvement upto which level?
@mist_consecutive has to define it.

It could be sit on the sidelines and scream;
it could be make threatening noises, scare Indian war planners but do nothing;
it could be make intrusions, or increase the rate of incursions of non-state players;
it could be, in the final analysis, a full-scale involvement.

Mist Mama has to decide; Mama giveth and Mama taketh away.
 

Angel of War

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India is not foolish to be an aggressor. India will most definitely be a Defender.

If India is the aggressor and sends it's Jets, Tanks etc inside China than they will be Destroyed quicker as Chinese will have the home-field advantage against Indian Assets.

On the other hand, if China does the same, than it will be the same for China. So whom you want to be the aggressor and whom you want to be the Defender, you DECIDE! (Ofcourse it's a simulated war!)
India will keep a tit for tat counter strategy , example - they strike us in Depsang. We strike them at chumbi valley
 

Angel of War

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@Joe Shearer how about we involve the pakistani military in a chinese thrust towards Sub Sector North ? SSN faces a collusive threat from both sides
 

Angel of War

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Example (Attack plan)



Objective:- Capture of Zanda County (the awkward gap between Himachal Pradesh and Ladakh, see the map).

Background:- In case of a Chinese offensive in North-Eastern Ladakh capturing the DBO-Depsang axis, or NEFA regions in Arunachal Pradesh, India has to consolidate its position on the diplomatic table by gaining a big bargaining chip.

The Zanda County gap, sandwiched between Himachal Pradesh and South Ladakh states of India, is an extremely remote and under-developed area. This patch of land, around 60 X 30 km in size, is connected to Tibet by two mountain passes (shown in red). If the Indian Army can successfully block these two mountain passes and move in reinforcements, China will have a pretty hard time defending it.

Plan:-

It will be a two-pronged attack (see green arrows), the Sumdo-side offensive will be handled by the 14th Mtn Division, under Central Command, whereas the Demchok-side offensive will be handled by the 6th Mountain Division under Northern Command.

The operation will start with an overnight-air SEAD + DEAD air campaign on the peninsula to seek out and destroy Chinese ADs (which I don't assume to be too many, as that area lacks any SAM site or major military base). Major supply centers, military outposts, and villages will be targeted by artillery overnight.

By early dawn, ~2 battalions of Para airborne will be airdropped on each of the marked mountain passes (red) to capture and hold them. They will be supplemented by artillery and 1x Squadron each of LCH light attack helicopters.

1 Brigade-each of mountain light infantry from the 14th and 6th Mtn Division will move into the peninsula from Sumdo and Demchok, respectively, and should reach + reinforce the mountain passes by evening the same day, sanitizing and remaining Chinese forces.

Once the brigade-sized forces have reached the mountain passes, holding the peninsula should be straightforward, thereafter. Indian Air Force has to maintain air superiority over the peninsula by conducting regular BARCAPs and also maintaining local numerical superiority.

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For a starter, try to counter it @Angel of War @Joe Shearer, submit a defense plan.
a sample counter plan from your side would be appreciated . That way i can know what all Things I'll have to keep in mind before making a counter strategy of my own
 

Angel of War

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Another critical scenario for Indian force planners is a maritime conflict between China and India in the Indian Ocean. Such a scenario could be sui generis, or an expansion or escalation of another dispute elsewhere. China may, for example, choose to escalate at sea if India stalemates its forces on land.

As with any scenario, the devil is in the details of the assumptions about how the war begins and the strategic objectives of the belligerents. Nevertheless, some issues are likely to be common across a range of potential scenarios. First, much as is the case on the LAC India will likely have an initial numerical advantage. India maintains virtually all its forces in the Indian Ocean region, while most of China’s forces are east of Malacca. This will put a great deal of pressure on China to either keep its Indian Ocean forces as a fleet in being, or to rapidly link its western and eastern forces. This, in turn, will put pressure on India to prevent these outcomes.
@Super Flanker can you come with a naval plan to prevent this
 

Joe Shearer

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@Joe Shearer how about we involve the pakistani military in a chinese thrust towards Sub Sector North ? SSN faces a collusive threat from both sides
It's not up to me.

In a war-game of this sort, what we need is the following:

An Observer, who will be the public custodian of information and the recipient of public information. I will explain that.

An Umpire, who is privy to the order of battle details of both sides, and to the capability of the weaponry, as well as to rates of movement maximum and minimum, and attrition rates of both sides after an encounter.

Much of this, as much as 90%, would be covered by the system, if a simulation system is being used, as is being used elsewhere; we had to slog for weeks to prepare our ORBAT, since we wanted to present a completely different set of war aims, and to twist the rules of engagement in our favour; we had to slog also to find the rate of progress of an armoured division, a mechanised division and an infantry division (we have not submitted any specifications for mountain divisions, but are keeping it up our sleeves; submitting these is to remind the Pakistanis that there is a wide scope of operations on the Kashmir side, what you have termed the SSN, and our whole game plan there is posited on a series of deceptive moves, intended to divert their attention from Rawalpindi-Okara to further south).

Rules of engagement over there also included two over-arching rules - no use of tactical nuclear devices, and no intervention by the Chinese. The Pakistani Observer and Umpire have been scrupulously fair to us. On the other hand, to my disappointment, a new technology was disallowed, although it is already in use by the Indian CAPF, and also, the Umpire very strictly ruled that a minimum 30% of forces aligned against the PLA must be retained; 70% might be diverted but not more.

There are also rules for the speed of progress of units; a division or similar formation may move maximum 30 kms a day without hostile opposition; a tank moves at 8 kms per hour unopposed, 1 or 2 kms per hour under opposition. There are norms for replenishing formations, and those norms will be observed; we cannot have someone sitting in the middle of a desert, firing away three months' worth of ammunition in a three-day period and expect to do the same day in and day out.

The Observer comes in because in a system-driven war game, Side A makes a move and records it in the system, and Side B immediately gets to know it, and may react. Here there is no system; we have been informed that the Indian Army has done #1, #2 and #3; that is fine, but in response, the Side B, in this case role-playing the PLA and the PLA AF, will do certain things in public, certain things in private. When a brigade turns up in Haldwani, nobody should say that this was not announced while it was being prepared and in the stages of execution; only the final, visible step will be known. In our present case, there is no Observer and we have to announce our moves ourselves.

In the absence of an Umpire, the moves we make are also not scrutinised. I might move an armoured brigade into the middle of Dehra Dun, for all anyone can say or do. Obviously that is an absurdity, but in the absence of an Umpire, it becomes an argument without end.

It becomes worse when it comes to weaponry and to the results of combat.

So what we are trying here is a back-of-the-envelop version of a war-game, and we need to develop our information much further before trying out a full-scope war-game.

When I tell you that five people worked tirelessly at preparing the Indian presentation (we are ready in all respects but for the Naval preparations) for a full week, you will get an idea of the effort involved even at the level of gaming with an all-seeing system doing the heavy lifting.

Hope you get a feel for what is involved. That is why battalions, brigades, divisions, Corps, all have very strong staff complements. War is hell; planning for war is purgatory, a preparation to go into hell.
 

Joe Shearer

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Another critical scenario for Indian force planners is a maritime conflict between China and India in the Indian Ocean. Such a scenario could be sui generis, or an expansion or escalation of another dispute elsewhere. China may, for example, choose to escalate at sea if India stalemates its forces on land.

As with any scenario, the devil is in the details of the assumptions about how the war begins and the strategic objectives of the belligerents. Nevertheless, some issues are likely to be common across a range of potential scenarios. First, much as is the case on the LAC India will likely have an initial numerical advantage. India maintains virtually all its forces in the Indian Ocean region, while most of China’s forces are east of Malacca. This will put a great deal of pressure on China to either keep its Indian Ocean forces as a fleet in being, or to rapidly link its western and eastern forces. This, in turn, will put pressure on India to prevent these outcomes.
@Super Flanker can you come with a naval plan to prevent this
Would you like to form two teams, to handle the Indian side and the Chinese side respectively? These are not one-man efforts.
 

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