Indo China War Simulation Thread

[Joe Shearer]

Not sure what is being asked here.

I'm asking whether these handicaps and obstacles are permanent, or if with forward planning and organising, they can be overcome.

I'm asking if there can be a plan for a situation 8 years, or 10 years, or 12 years, or 20 years down the line.

I'm asking if there is a possibility that we can think beyond the lifespan of the older people among us, of the elected tenure of a politician, of the government limited career of the bureaucrat, of the military career of our generals, our admirals and our air marshals.

 

[Love Charger]

My major is not civil engineering, and I rarely care about the china-Indian border, so I don’t know if can overcome it. The only feasible solution I mentioned is to excavate a large number of tunnels, but the funds required for this are unimaginable, especially In areas with frequent formations such as the Pamirs,
If you consider 2030, then with the opening of the Sichuan-Tibet Railway, in the eastern section, China can maintain an offensive posture, and even the entire military materials in Tibet are guaranteed by such a railway, connecting the more economically developed Sichuan Basin

 

[Joe Shearer]

My major is not civil engineering, and I rarely care about the china-Indian border, so I don’t know if can overcome it. The only feasible solution I mentioned is to excavate a large number of tunnels, but the funds required for this are unimaginable, especially In areas with frequent formations such as the Pamirs,
If you consider 2030, then with the opening of the Sichuan-Tibet Railway, in the eastern section, China can maintain an offensive posture, and even the entire military materials in Tibet are guaranteed by such a railway, connecting the more economically developed Sichuan Basin

Two things.

Forget about civil engineering. That is not the issue.

You are right about tunnels, and even about roads cut into the mountain side, in this highly unstable geology of new rock formations still in formative conditions. It seems worthwhile considering the lead the PLA has given us from 1962, and following the valley bottoms and river beds. That is not to suggest that the unformed sides and banks of such mountain streams be used for logistical maintenance; rather, they should be the foundation, rather than the mountains around them.

Second, you are right about China being able to do more with the additional rail line, and with better links to Sichuan. Precisely so; Sichuan, and not Lhasa, not Xigatse, is the key to the situation. Think what would be the thinking of someone who wants to eliminate pressure along the entire passage of territory from Nyingchi to Nyoma; will he agitate the situation in the Galwan Valley, or at Daulat Beg Oldi, or at the Chumbi Valley? If he were to do so, he would be childish. Yes, we have been childish in Indian planning, and we have thereby become child-like in the eyes of Chinese planners.

 

[mist_consecutive]

Alright, I finally got time.

I see not much simulation is going on yet, only creating the background and discussing the past. Let's start. Also, I will request members not to intimidate Chinese/Pakistani members if they are putting a logical discussion, without their input this forum might become a chest-thumping echo chamber.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Alright, I finally got time.

I see not much simulation is going on yet, only creating the background and discussing the past. Let's start. Also, I will request members not to intimidate Chinese/Pakistani members if they are putting a logical discussion, without their input this forum might become a chest-thumping echo chamber.

Go for it, chief.
Myself, I'm a Queen's side opening person, so I'll just do my slow, systematic build-up.
Who am I to step in the path of Victory?
The simulation was to have been through a piece of software that I - we - don't want to acquire yet, until we have played a round - or two - on it as it is, so that is why the long-drawn out prelims. It isn't necessary to go so slow, actually.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Go for it, chief.
Myself, I'm a Queen's side opening person, so I'll just do my slow, systematic build-up.
Who am I to step in the path of Victory?
The simulation was to have been through a piece of software that I - we - don't want to acquire yet, until we have played a round - or two - on it as it is, so that is why the long-drawn out prelims. It isn't necessary to go so slow, actually.

What are the rules you propose? Who will adjudicate? Who will form the two sides and define their war aims? Who will plan specific actions to meet their war aims and how will these be implemented?

If you put these in place, we can start tomorrow!

(The 'we' is a hopeful thought!).

 

[Angel of War]

What should we do though? We don’t have the logistics nor military capabilities to start this war with China. They have the Tibetan plateau so they are at a bit of a geographical advantage.

tibetan plateau and flat terrain is atleast 30km north of Machmahon line , to attack us they'll have to navigate through 30km of high altitude passes and roads via some of the most treacherous terrain you can possibly think of , in that case we can detect their mobilisation via satellite imagery and BFSRs . What advantage are you talking about then ? The only advantage i can possibly think of on their side is quick mobilisation of troops in the rear areas of the plateau where the terrain is relatively uniform , these troops will be from the Rapid Reaction forces of the PLA's chengdu garrison .

 

[Joe Shearer]

tibetan plateau and flat terrain is atleast 30km north of Machmahon line , to attack us they'll have to navigate through 30km of high altitude passes and roads via some of the most treacherous terrain you can possibly think of , in that case we can detect their mobilisation via satellite imagery and BFSRs . What advantage are you talking about then ? The only advantage i can possibly think of on their side is quick mobilisation of troops in the rear areas of the plateau where the terrain is relatively uniform , these troops will be from the Rapid Reaction forces of the PLA's chengdu garrison .

That, too, is constrained - tightly - by their road and rail network.

 

[mist_consecutive]

As @Joe Shearer clearly mentioned before, this war is supposed to be during 2030, so let's keep in mind infrastructure developments & defense procurements in mind while thinking about the scenarios.

What are the rules you propose? Who will adjudicate? Who will form the two sides and define their war aims? Who will plan specific actions to meet their war aims and how will these be implemented?

If you put these in place, we can start tomorrow!

(The 'we' is a hopeful thought!).

I am proposing rules and regulations here, we can modify/change them as per common consensus.

Who will adjudicate?

Moderators, and in an absence of them, I volunteer. @Joe Shearer you too, can join.

Who will form the two sides and define their war aims?

Let's not form sides/teams. Unnecessary hassle. Anyone can take any side.

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Basic Rules

1. One person submits an attack plan/proposal. Others may submit a defense proposal to it.
2. The attack plan is marked as success (and remains so) in absence of at least one successful defense plan.
3. In presence of at least one successful defense plan, the original attack plan is termed as failed.
4. No further change to the original attack plan is allowed to counter the defense.
5. Anyone can post an attack/defense plan for any side.
6. Moderators, me & @Joe Shearer will judge the attack/defense plan and evaluate it. Others can join, but the final call will be on moderators. They will mark with FAILED or SUCCESS over attack/defense plan (because they only have access to edit other's posts).

Example (Attack plan)

......... continued to next post.

 

[Joe Shearer]

That, too, is constrained - tightly - by their road and rail network.

We are talking about three (3) Army Corps (interpreting Group Army as Army Corps, equivalent to 3 divisions each or 9 brigades each) and four (4) Divisions; that could be about 30 brigades, approximately 90,000 fighting men. Currently we have four Army Corps formed up against them.

The question is to improve our unit organisation, firepower and training for high-altitude warfare, and to improve our battle-field management. There is also the question of what happens when we give up our locational advantages by fighting the PLA AF on their home grounds, where they will be comfortably supplied and serviced.

Further, do we include tanks in our Order of Battle, or stick to tank destroyers, and other such high firepower- low protection - high mobility devices? Do we stay with the present constitution of our infantry, mechanised and armoured formations, or change them to suit those battles of the future?

Many more questions.

 

[Joe Shearer]

As @Joe Shearer clearly mentioned before, this war is supposed to be during 2030, so let's keep in mind infrastructure developments & defense procurements in mind while thinking about the scenarios.




I am proposing rules and regulations here, we can modify/change them as per common consensus.



Moderators, and in an absence of them, I volunteer. @Joe Shearer you too, can join.



Let's not form sides/teams. Unnecessary hassle. Anyone can take any side.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Basic Rules

1. One person submits an attack plan/proposal. Others may submit a defense proposal to it.
2. The attack plan is marked as success (and remains so) in absence of at least one successful defense plan.
3. In presence of at least one successful defense plan, the original attack plan is termed as failed.
4. No further change to the original attack plan is allowed to counter the defense.
5. Anyone can post an attack/defense plan for any side.
6. Moderators, me & @Joe Shearer will judge the attack/defense plan and evaluate it. Others can join, but the final call will be on moderators. They will mark with FAILED or SUCCESS over attack/defense plan (because they only have access to edit other's posts).

Example (Attack plan)

......... continued to next post.

You plan well.

 

[Joe Shearer]

You plan well.

What's the next step? Ask for combat leaders for attack plans? Once at least one is identified, ask for a campaign plan? Ask for combat leaders for defence plans?

 

[Angel of War]

@Joe Shearer @mist_consecutive @Love Charger
(A2/AD) systems such as sophisticated air defenses, electronic warfare, and long-range precision-guided missiles—might play a role in Chinese operations along the LAC. However, their effects would likely be much more limited as The mountainous terrain significantly limits the effective ranges of sensors and communications networks. At the same time, the dispersed Indian army formations might put forward on the border make poor targets for long-range precision weaponry. China could use long-range precision fires to strike airfields, roads, railways, and other key infrastructure that India’s armed forces rely on to respond to an incursion. However, given the number of potential Indian targets (in contrast to the limited number of U.S. bases in the Western Pacific), a major strike campaign will likely not be worth the cost or the risk of escalation from China’s perspective. It is far more likely that China would use its precision fires to disrupt and degrade forces in the vicinity of its offensive, while also isolating the battlespace. Even so , china's battlefield strategy is filled with optimism. Note - These scenarios don't include an indian counter response

 

[mist_consecutive]

As @Joe Shearer clearly mentioned before, this war is supposed to be during 2030, so let's keep in mind infrastructure developments & defense procurements in mind while thinking about the scenarios.




I am proposing rules and regulations here, we can modify/change them as per common consensus.



Moderators, and in an absence of them, I volunteer. @Joe Shearer you too, can join.



Let's not form sides/teams. Unnecessary hassle. Anyone can take any side.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Basic Rules

1. One person submits an attack plan/proposal. Others may submit a defense proposal to it.
2. The attack plan is marked as success (and remains so) in absence of at least one successful defense plan.
3. In presence of at least one successful defense plan, the original attack plan is termed as failed.
4. No further change to the original attack plan is allowed to counter the defense.
5. Anyone can post an attack/defense plan for any side.
6. Moderators, me & @Joe Shearer will judge the attack/defense plan and evaluate it. Others can join, but the final call will be on moderators. They will mark with FAILED or SUCCESS over attack/defense plan (because they only have access to edit other's posts).

Example (Attack plan)

......... continued to next post.

Example (Attack plan)

Objective:- Capture of Zanda County (the awkward gap between Himachal Pradesh and Ladakh, see the map).

Background:- In case of a Chinese offensive in North-Eastern Ladakh capturing the DBO-Depsang axis, or NEFA regions in Arunachal Pradesh, India has to consolidate its position on the diplomatic table by gaining a big bargaining chip.

The Zanda County gap, sandwiched between Himachal Pradesh and South Ladakh states of India, is an extremely remote and under-developed area. This patch of land, around 60 X 30 km in size, is connected to Tibet by two mountain passes (shown in red). If the Indian Army can successfully block these two mountain passes and move in reinforcements, China will have a pretty hard time defending it.

Plan:-

It will be a two-pronged attack (see green arrows), the Sumdo-side offensive will be handled by the 14th Mtn Division, under Central Command, whereas the Demchok-side offensive will be handled by the 6th Mountain Division under Northern Command.

The operation will start with an overnight-air SEAD + DEAD air campaign on the peninsula to seek out and destroy Chinese ADs (which I don't assume to be too many, as that area lacks any SAM site or major military base). Major supply centers, military outposts, and villages will be targeted by artillery overnight.

By early dawn, ~2 battalions of Para airborne will be airdropped on each of the marked mountain passes (red) to capture and hold them. They will be supplemented by artillery and 1x Squadron each of LCH light attack helicopters.

1 Brigade-each of mountain light infantry from the 14th and 6th Mtn Division will move into the peninsula from Sumdo and Demchok, respectively, and should reach + reinforce the mountain passes by evening the same day, sanitizing and remaining Chinese forces.

Once the brigade-sized forces have reached the mountain passes, holding the peninsula should be straightforward, thereafter. Indian Air Force has to maintain air superiority over the peninsula by conducting regular BARCAPs and also maintaining local numerical superiority.

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For a starter, try to counter it @Angel of War @Joe Shearer, submit a defense plan.

 

[mist_consecutive]

What's the next step? Ask for combat leaders for attack plans? Once at least one is identified, ask for a campaign plan? Ask for combat leaders for defence plans?

I think many members will be interested in submitting attack/defense plans of their own. Many members have
reached out to me in the past with similar proposals.

 

[Joe Shearer]

I think many members will be interested in submitting attack/defense plans of their own. Many members have
reached out to me in the past with similar proposals.

Yup, I'm sure they would.

Let's see what turns up.

I'll put in a "Defence" plan of my own, only it will probably look like a counter-attack plan.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Please appoint or nominate an Observer/Umpire.

 

[Super Flanker]

Whatever strategy and tactics we Implement and whatever Weopons and resources we would dedicate in a Potential full scale war with China would depend on who is the aggressor and who is the Defender.

India is not foolish to be an aggressor. India will most definitely be a Defender.

If India is the aggressor and sends it's Jets, Tanks etc inside China than they will be Destroyed quicker as Chinese will have the home-field advantage against Indian Assets.

On the other hand, if China does the same, than it will be the same for China. So whom you want to be the aggressor and whom you want to be the Defender, you DECIDE! (Ofcourse it's a simulated war!)

 

[Joe Shearer]

India is not foolish to be an aggressor. India will most definitely be a Defender.

That is a great point of view, and I hope you will define a response to the move made by @mist_consecutive; he is expecting responses.

 

[Joe Shearer]

If India is the aggressor and sends it's Jets, Tanks etc inside China than they will be Destroyed quicker as Chinese will have the home-field advantage against Indian Assets.

I have a different point of view, and will present my plan.

Meanwhile, I intend to put in my own response to the move made by @mist_consecutive.

'We shall meet at Philippi.'