INS Vikrant Aircraft Carrier (IAC)

[Blademaster]

Is that even possible?
Wouldn't be there any issue from Russian side?

I don't care and the IN doesn't. What good or use is an aircraft carrier if it spend all of her time being repaired or being tugged due to the poor state of the engines? If changing the engines mean we can use the carrier a lot, then by all means go for it.

 

[SKC]

I don't care and the IN doesn't. What good or use is an aircraft carrier if it spend all of her time being repaired or being tugged due to the poor state of the engines? If changing the engines mean we can use the carrier a lot, then by all means go for it.

And No body care whether you care about it or not.
You cant just say replace the boilers too now.
Navy can do it only if that's even remotely possible which i don't think so can happen. Even if that is being done, then if there any official confirmation?

 

[Blademaster]

And No body care whether you care about it or not.
You cant just say replace the boilers too now.
Navy can do it only if that's even remotely possible which i don't think so can happen. Even if that is being done, then if there any official confirmation?

And you miss the point. You said that the Russians would care if the IN tried to change the boilers and my point is that the IN would not care about what the Russians think if it means making the carrier useful. IN did not pay nearly $4 billion dollars to Russia to get an useless carrier. They expect a full fledged fighting carrier and they will make sure that they got one that can fight.

 

[SKC]

And you miss the point. You said that the Russians would care if the IN tried to change the boilers and my point is that the IN would not care about what the Russians think if it means making the carrier useful. IN did not pay nearly $4 billion dollars to Russia to get an useless carrier. They expect a full fledged fighting carrier and they will make sure that they got one that can fight.

Ok So IN does not care. So you are saying they are replacing the boilers?

 

[Blademaster]

Ok So IN does not care. So you are saying they are replacing the boilers?

No I said I hope that they are replacing the boilers. I have no further information on that.

 

[Love Charger]

Navy shouod be generous and give all mig 29s to iaf , and instead buy f 18s to replace the mig 29s , and also for IAC 1

 

[Adm Kenobi]

Navy shouod be generous and give all mig 29s to iaf , and instead buy f 18s to replace the mig 29s , and also for IAC 1

& kill TEDBF, right?

 

[Super falcon]

Boeing F 18 super Mavericks are coming for indian navy is very satisfied UpTo now with hornets trials

 

[Super Flanker]

Boeing F 18 super Mavericks are coming for indian navy is very satisfied UpTo now with hornets trials

(Lol) there is no such thing as F/A-18 Super Mavericks, there is only Super Hornet. It Seems that you are a big fan of american jets like the F/A-18 SH!

 

[SKC]

Next questions is how will SH going to operate from Vikrant. Vikrant is having the angled deck. Does it have the pulleys with enough strength to hold SH till it reach max power and then go for launch.
Would it need any sort of modification on the deck for SH?

 

[houde10000]

Navy shouod be generous and give all mig 29s to iaf , and instead buy f 18s to replace the mig 29s , and also for IAC 1

The lifter size is too small for F18, replacing mig29 with F18, IN has to rebuild the lifter, that is a big project, it could lag AC deployment forever

 

[RoaringTigerHiddenDragon]

The lifter size is too small for F18, replacing mig29 with F18, IN has to rebuild the lifter, that is a big project, it could lag AC deployment forever

With Brahmos around and hypersonic version of it soon plus the Poseidons & dedicated naval satellites, IN can take some time to make any adjustments that allows it to learn new tech as they go for additional carriers. Though, Boeing has already mentioned that the Super Hornet fits in the current lift and requires no mods. Boeing also has a massive infrastructure in India, and the deal offsets can be used by Boeing to do more Make in India. Interop with Poseidons and Raytheon, Honeywell radars is also good. So, Boeing has several advantages over Rafales. The only thing is will IN put all its eggs in American tech? This is where French+Israeli+Indian tech works as an alternate for India. However, unlike the US, French and Israel cannot be relied upon to not share tech with PLA. But US can be. So there are so many things to look at for the decision makers.
It is not an easy choice. The good news is both platforms are the top of the pole and India has good interop with both.
But the US has an edge for sure as they are the dominant operator of carrier tech and there are deals for ToT of tech like Emals. So, I have a good feeling that IN will 99% go for F/A18 SH and probably order another 36 Rafael from the French for the IAF to keep them in good humor. This strategy is also the correct one. IAF operates Rafales for its agile roles and the tech it needs for complete air dominance over Pakistan. But, IN operates American gear, as the naval theater is where India must have maximum interop with US Navy to gain total dominance over the PLAN in the Indian Ocean. IN has zero threat from Pak Navy. So they are not going to acquire tech keeping Pakistan in mind. But for the air force they will acquire tech keeping Pak in mind and less with PLA in mind as air wars are not feasible over the Himalayas and the Predator drones are more than enough for border aerial management.

 

[johnj]

With Brahmos around and hypersonic version of it soon plus the Poseidons & dedicated naval satellites, IN can take some time to make any adjustments that allows it to learn new tech as they go for additional carriers. Though, Boeing has already mentioned that the Super Hornet fits in the current lift and requires no mods. Boeing also has a massive infrastructure in India, and the deal offsets can be used by Boeing to do more Make in India. Interop with Poseidons and Raytheon, Honeywell radars is also good. So, Boeing has several advantages over Rafales. The only thing is will IN put all its eggs in American tech? This is where French+Israeli+Indian tech works as an alternate for India. However, unlike the US, French and Israel cannot be relied upon to not share tech with PLA. But US can be. So there are so many things to look at for the decision makers.
It is not an easy choice. The good news is both platforms are the top of the pole and India has good interop with both.
But the US has an edge for sure as they are the dominant operator of carrier tech and there are deals for ToT of tech like Emals. So, I have a good feeling that IN will 99% go for F/A18 SH and probably order another 36 Rafael from the French for the IAF to keep them in good humor. This strategy is also the correct one. IAF operates Rafales for its agile roles and the tech it needs for complete air dominance over Pakistan. But, IN operates American gear, as the naval theater is where India must have maximum interop with US Navy to gain total dominance over the PLAN in the Indian Ocean. IN has zero threat from Pak Navy. So they are not going to acquire tech keeping Pakistan in mind. But for the air force they will acquire tech keeping Pak in mind and less with PLA in mind as air wars are not feasible over the Himalayas and the Predator drones are more than enough for border aerial management.

1.P-8I Neptune, not Poseidons.
2.No tot for EMALS, AAG, but direct sale, and support in building next carrier.
3.IN posses more threat from PN compared to PLAN, for ex. SSK AIP, Aircraft carrier killer missiles, Marine Assault etc. IN only posses threat from PN, not from PLAN, Chinese give importance to Land and Air forces against India and keep Navy on SCS and to counter US & its allies, means Navy to counter US, US allies and AUKUS.

 

[johnj]

Navy shouod be generous and give all mig 29s to iaf , and instead buy f 18s to replace the mig 29s , and also for IAC 1

SH & Rafale for IACs not for vikki for now, and tedbf replace mig and with desi 110kN engine.
IAF mig superior to INs and uses different coms and IAF will choose mwf over mig29k, when sh/rafale arrive in nos.

 

[Tridev123]

With Brahmos around and hypersonic version of it soon plus the Poseidons & dedicated naval satellites, IN can take some time to make any adjustments that allows it to learn new tech as they go for additional carriers. Though, Boeing has already mentioned that the Super Hornet fits in the current lift and requires no mods. Boeing also has a massive infrastructure in India, and the deal offsets can be used by Boeing to do more Make in India. Interop with Poseidons and Raytheon, Honeywell radars is also good. So, Boeing has several advantages over Rafales. The only thing is will IN put all its eggs in American tech? This is where French+Israeli+Indian tech works as an alternate for India. However, unlike the US, French and Israel cannot be relied upon to not share tech with PLA. But US can be. So there are so many things to look at for the decision makers.
It is not an easy choice. The good news is both platforms are the top of the pole and India has good interop with both.
But the US has an edge for sure as they are the dominant operator of carrier tech and there are deals for ToT of tech like Emals. So, I have a good feeling that IN will 99% go for F/A18 SH and probably order another 36 Rafael from the French for the IAF to keep them in good humor. This strategy is also the correct one. IAF operates Rafales for its agile roles and the tech it needs for complete air dominance over Pakistan. But, IN operates American gear, as the naval theater is where India must have maximum interop with US Navy to gain total dominance over the PLAN in the Indian Ocean. IN has zero threat from Pak Navy. So they are not going to acquire tech keeping Pakistan in mind. But for the air force they will acquire tech keeping Pak in mind and less with PLA in mind as air wars are not feasible over the Himalayas and the Predator drones are more than enough for border aerial management.

Now, that is a very controversial statement 'but for the airforce they will acquire tech keeping Pak in mind and less with PLAAF in mind'

To the contrary I believe air power will play a key role in deciding the outcome of an Sino - Indian conflict across the Himalayas. The altitude factor cannot be an limiting factor as modern combat aircraft can easily fly 50,000 to 60,000 feet above sea level.

IIn fact many military experts had said that it was an historic blunder not to use air power in 1962.The course of the conflict would have been different had the IAF been allowed to bomb the PLA. I believe we had more modern aircraft than the PLAAF at that time.

The Pakistan Air Force is crippled as far as operating and acquiring new, modern Western origin planes are concerned. Their fortunes are now hopelessly tied to the Chinese. An indisputable fact is that our Rafale is better than the JF17(by a wide margin) and the J10C. Only the J20 can muddy the waters. Again China would be a fool to supply its best combat aircraft to Islamabad. Because the CIA and the Pentagon undoubtedly have many agents in the Pak military. The technology of the J20 will be leaked to the Americans. Just as the F16 technologies were leaked to the Chinese(this is highly likely).

The situation can change if Washington supplies the latest versions of the F16 to Islamabad. That would be an very, very unfriendly act and probably would change the way New Delhi views the US. Another unlikely scenario is if the PAF acquires modern European combat aircraft like the Typhoon.

We have to keep in mind another reality. Pakistan is an relatively narrow strip of territory. How far is the farthest point in Pakistan from the Indian border. Probably about 600 km?.Most targets in Pakistan can be hit easily by our Brahmos missiles which will reach 800 km range capability soon. Once our transformed Nirbhay missile (ITCM) is perfected and mass produced, it will be a much cheaper alternative.

We don't need the Air Force to even engage massively in the bombing of Pakistan. Other options are available.

On the other hand an vital war objective in any large war against China would be the early destruction of supply lines coming from mainland China. The rail and road lines. And all airfields need to be destroyed. We need to prevent resupply and replenishment of PLA forces in both Tibet and Xinjiang. Though missiles can be used to take out the targets it may not be accurate bombing because the targets may be more than a 1000km from the border.Also presently we lack long range land attack cruise missiles( > 1000 km range) in sufficient numbers.I believe the use of the Air Force will be unavoidable.

In fact we should establish air superiority over the PLAAF by creating an technological edge. Not an very difficult task. Chinese aerospace technology is still behind American and European aerospace technology levels . So till our indigenous aerospace technology matures and equals the standards of the developed countries, some amount of imports seem unavoidable.

 

[Arjun Mk1A]

Now, that is a very controversial statement 'but for the airforce they will acquire tech keeping Pak in mind and less with PLAAF in mind'

To the contrary I believe air power will play a key role in deciding the outcome of an Sino - Indian conflict across the Himalayas. The altitude factor cannot be an limiting factor as modern combat aircraft can easily fly 50,000 to 60,000 feet above sea level.

IIn fact many military experts had said that it was an historic blunder not to use air power in 1962.The course of the conflict would have been different had the IAF been allowed to bomb the PLA. I believe we had more modern aircraft than the PLAAF at that time.

The Pakistan Air Force is crippled as far as operating and acquiring new, modern Western origin planes are concerned. Their fortunes are now hopelessly tied to the Chinese. An indisputable fact is that our Rafale is better than the JF17(by a wide margin) and the J10C. Only the J20 can muddy the waters. Again China would be a fool to supply its best combat aircraft to Islamabad. Because the CIA and the Pentagon undoubtedly have many agents in the Pak military. The technology of the J20 will be leaked to the Americans. Just as the F16 technologies were leaked to the Chinese(this is highly likely).

The situation can change if Washington supplies the latest versions of the F16 to Islamabad. That would be an very, very unfriendly act and probably would change the way New Delhi views the US. Another unlikely scenario is if the PAF acquires modern European combat aircraft like the Typhoon.

We have to keep in mind another reality. Pakistan is an relatively narrow strip of territory. How far is the farthest point in Pakistan from the Indian border. Probably about 600 km?.Most targets in Pakistan can be hit easily by our Brahmos missiles which will reach 800 km range capability soon. Once our transformed Nirbhay missile (ITCM) is perfected and mass produced, it will be a much cheaper alternative.

We don't need the Air Force to even engage massively in the bombing of Pakistan. Other options are available.

On the other hand an vital war objective in any large war against China would be the early destruction of supply lines coming from mainland China. The rail and road lines. And all airfields need to be destroyed. We need to prevent resupply and replenishment of PLA forces in both Tibet and Xinjiang. Though missiles can be used to take out the targets it may not be accurate bombing because the targets may be more than a 1000km from the border.Also presently we lack long range land attack cruise missiles( > 1000 km range) in sufficient numbers.I believe the use of the Air Force will be unavoidable.

In fact we should establish air superiority over the PLAAF by creating an technological edge. Not an very difficult task. Chinese aerospace technology is still behind American and European aerospace technology levels . So till our indigenous aerospace technology matures and equals the standards of the developed countries, some amount of imports seem unavoidable.

So basically we need a strong Airforce with enough precision strike capability. This will help the troops to march forwards and put the enemy at the back foot.

 

[Tridev123]

So basically we need a strong Airforce with enough precision strike capability. This will help the troops to march forwards and put the enemy at the back foot.

Leaving aside the humour, do you seriously think that the IAF should only focus on the PAF.
Because there is no chance of an air war happening with China across the Himalayas (the Himalayas will miraculously prevent our and Chinese planes from operating). Possibly our planes would crash into Mt Everest (max altitude at around 30,000 feet above mean sea level) and the other peaks.

Anyway whatever makes you happy,

 

[Arjun Mk1A]

Leaving aside the humour, do you seriously think that the IAF should only focus on the PAF.
Because there is no chance of an air war happening with China across the Himalayas (the Himalayas will miraculously prevent our and Chinese planes from operating). Possibly our planes would crash into Mt Everest (max altitude at around 30,000 feet above mean sea level) and the other peaks.

Anyway whatever makes you happy,

Well that is what theatirization trying to do. Basically allocating resource to take on different theatre. But we are not known for speedy decision makers in defense. Hence we don't have enough resource to allocate them. But in ideal condition may be our Western theatre will take care of PAF nuisance while majority of Air assets will be for PLAAF.

 

[Tridev123]

Well that is what theatirization trying to do. Basically allocating resource to take on different theatre. But we are not known for speedy decision makers in defense. Hence we don't have enough resource to allocate them. But in ideal condition may be our Western theatre will take care of PAF nuisance while majority of Air assets will be for PLAAF.

We have two Strike Corps primed for action against Pakistan with heavy armour elements. Basically as far as land battles are concerned we have both an numerical superiority and an qualitative superiority over the Pak Army.

But we don't enjoy an similar superiority over the PLA on land. Probably we are almost equal in capability.

So it is important that we compensate by having an superior Air Force over the PLAAF. We may not be able to out match them in numbers of aircraft. But we can certainly aim to be technologically superior to the PLAAF fleet.

 

[RoaringTigerHiddenDragon]

1.P-8I Neptune, not Poseidons.
2.No tot for EMALS, AAG, but direct sale, and support in building next carrier.
3.IN posses more threat from PN compared to PLAN, for ex. SSK AIP, Aircraft carrier killer missiles, Marine Assault etc. IN only posses threat from PN, not from PLAN, Chinese give importance to Land and Air forces against India and keep Navy on SCS and to counter US & its allies, means Navy to counter US, US allies and AUKUS.

Doubt it. Navy is a massive capital expenditure service. It requires port infrastructure, fuel supply, fleet size, etc. all costing massive expense. For the next 10 years, Pak is out as they become another Somalia and becoming great at piracy operations trying to smuggle drugs into India. Pakistan in no way can afford to maintain even a minimum deterrence against the IN for now. The wild card is how far China will continue to pursue this arming Pakistan strategy and break global rules on technology transfer. Pakistan to maintain deterrence will focus on increasing the size of their nuclear arsenal and delivery capabilities.
On IN, believe it or not, it has to play a role in SCS as evidenced by the naval treaty signed with Vietnam. The need to be part of a US led naval theater in SCS and malacca choke points is a 100% reality now. No way to sugar coat or hide this anymore. No one is going to openly talk about it.But, every activity or purchase of IN points to establishing a greater Interop with the US Navy and the West. In return, the IN knows the PLAN will play a role in Indian Ocean. Hence, the new agalagea island base in Mauritius etc. So the naval Cold War is on. People just don’t want to accept it.