Indigenous Vikrant class Aircraft Carrier (IAC)

flanker99

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I have a noob question. If Mig29Ks are giving so much trouble, why not modify few Sukhoi Su30MKIs(arrange for foldable wings having 7-8 mtr wingspan) and use them instead till a decent number of TEDBF gets inducted?
Land aircraft are not suitable for naval ops....naval ac needs stronger landing gear and overall structure,more corrosion resistance,greater turn around time just to name a few.
Russians adopted land bases a/c for carrier ops so now we have jets like su33 and 29k which arnt good.
A naval capability must be kept in mind since the design phase else result will be subpar
 

Aditya Ballal

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I have a noob question. If Mig29Ks are giving so much trouble, why not modify few Sukhoi Su30MKIs(arrange for foldable wings having 7-8 mtr wingspan) and use them instead till a decent number of TEDBF gets inducted?
Way too big to operate on INS Vikramaditya and Vikrant. Same reason why Su 33 was rejected by the Indian Navy . It is also said that the Mig 29k performs better than the naval flankers. May not even fit on the lifts too with folding of wings cause lifts were designed on Vikramaditya for the Mig 29k once the decision to use it was made. Availability of Flankers and maintenance is worse than the Migs so it wouldn’t be worth it.
1623584996283.jpeg

Do see the size of the lift on Vikramaditya, since it wasn’t originally designed to be an aircraft carrier, it doesen’t have deck edge lifts. Vikrant has deck edge lifts but I don’t know the dimensions so can’t make any conclusions.
 

Aditya Ballal

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I have a noob question. If Mig29Ks are giving so much trouble, why not modify few Sukhoi Su30MKIs(arrange for foldable wings having 7-8 mtr wingspan) and use them instead till a decent number of TEDBF gets inducted?
Way too big to operate on INS Vikramaditya and Vikrant. Same reason why Su 33 was rejected by the Indian Navy . It is also said that the Mig 29k performs better than the naval flankers. May not even fit on the lifts too with folding of wings cause lifts were designed on Vikramaditya for the Mig 29k once the decision to use it was made. Availability of Flankers and maintenance is worse than the Migs so it wouldn’t be worth it.
View attachment 94540
Do see the size of the lift on Vikramaditya, since it wasn’t originally designed to be an aircraft carrier, it doesen’t have deck edge lifts. Vikrant has deck edge lifts but I don’t know the dimensions so can’t make any conclusions.
Thrust to weight ratio of Mig 29k=0.95, hypothetical naval su 30 mki with additional strengthening and folding wing mechanism =~0.75, su 33= 0.83 .
So meaningful payload will be less, range will be less, costs way too much and a host of other problems.
 

abingdonboy

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Whitecollar

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Thrust to weight ratio of Mig 29k=0.95, hypothetical naval su 30 mki with additional strengthening and folding wing mechanism =~0.75, su 33= 0.83 .
So meaningful payload will be less, range will be less, costs way too much and a host of other problems.
Can you give a detailed comparison i.e. how Chinese J-15s are differently built from Su-30 MKIs in order to cater the AC role??
 

Aditya Ballal

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Can you give a detailed comparison i.e. how Chinese J-15s are differently built from Su-30 MKIs in order to cater the AC role??
J 15 is a reverse engineered version of a SU 33 prototype, Soviet Carrier doctrine specified that Flankers only needed to deny airspace control and protect the CBG from aerial targets, unlike Western doctrines, hence they did not need catapults or aircraft with really good thrust to weight ratio. Su 33/J 15 usually carry only AAMs and Pods, if they need to A2S munitions they'll need to take a fuel penalty or need quick A2A refuelling. Same largely applies to Mig 29K, but situation is slightly better since its T/W ratio is decent. Su 33 was built with optimisation done to suit Carrier Borne Ops, not just modified into it. Modification will lead to extra weight being added as the original airframe wasn't intended for carriers and will be extremely time consuming to modify and certify these airframes, by then even TEDBF maybe ready before its done. Certification for maritime roles also take much longer than land based roles due to the inherent challenges. Chinese and Russian Aircraft Carriers are bigger, so take off space and hangars are better suited for these aircraft.
 

omaebakabaka

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Easy to say mate but for each carrier you need a carrier battle group(CBG) comprising of Destroyers, Frigates, ASW ships, a submarine, a support and replenishment ship etc. adding them up will balloon up costs. One more would definitely make sense, if the navy feels they need an additional one ASAP, at the timeline where corresponding ships are inducted. Before you build a carrier you need to build the CBG. Presently envisioned plans dictate ships sufficient only for 3 CBGs(for Vikramaditya, Vikrant and Vishal).
We need those now with increased presence of Chinese on worlds oceans....so frigates and DD are a must for us with or without carriers....so having 3 carriers will make us very formidable from east coast of Africa to the other end of Malacca straits
 

omaebakabaka

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Land aircraft are not suitable for naval ops....naval ac needs stronger landing gear and overall structure,more corrosion resistance,greater turn around time just to name a few.
Russians adopted land bases a/c for carrier ops so now we have jets like su33 and 29k which arnt good.
A naval capability must be kept in mind since the design phase else result will be subpar
Su-33? Mig29k is good except for the engine
 

Longewala

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Just like everything else In india.
Late latifi is the norm
The problem is not just that.
Because slippages are the norm, there is no incentive to figure out realistic, conservative timelines.

In this case, of course the operationalisation of Vikrant was way too delayed, but that plan he quoted about having a 3rd carrier by 2015 was made up someone on drugs and watching too much Shaktiman
 

WolfPack86

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Defence Min Rajnath Singh to Visit CSL on June 25 to Review Progress of Indigenous Aircraft Carrier
Kochi, Jun 22 (PTI) Defence Minister Rajnath Singh will visit the Cochin Shipyard Limited on June 25 to review the progress of the Indigenous Aircraft Carrier (IAC) being built there, official sources said on Tuesday.
Singh, who will arrive here on Thursday, will visit the IAC on Friday, they said.

The Defence Minister''s two-day Kochi visit comes in the wake of delay in the IAC''s sea trials.The trials were planned in the first half of this year but it got delayed due to the second wave of the COVID-19 pandemic, the sources told PTI.

The basin trials of the aircraft carrier were successfully conducted at CSL in December last year, marking entry into the final phase of the ambitious warship-building project.

Basin trial is testing of the ship''s machinery and equipment in floating conditions before the sea trials.

A Defence spokesperson had earlier said the IAC project was a true example of Atmanirbhar Bharat with close to 75 per cent of the material and equipment onboard being indigenous.

Over 50 Indian manufacturers have been directly involved in this project, which has provided significant employment opportunities for Indian citizens.

Close to 2,000 Indians received direct employment onboard IAC on a daily basis and over 40,000 received indirect employment.

In addition, about 80-85 per cent of the project cost of approximately Rs 20,000 Crore has been ploughed back into the Indian economy, according to the spokesperson. PTI TGB BN BN BALA BN BN BALA
 

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