Indigenous Vikrant class Aircraft Carrier (IAC)

asaffronladoftherisingsun

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Can someone educate me on my noob question that we must focus moar heavily on nuclear submarines and missile-centric navy force because its certainly cost effective, risk efficient and more survivable due to the distributed shooters and their ability to shoot and scoot. These can also effectively be used in area denial operations of our navy. Or we should still go for aircraft carriers that will help us navigate the tech learning curve and so that we are not left behind in carriers race?

Many thanks in advance...
 

Rajaraja Chola

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Can someone educate me on my noob question that we must focus moar heavily on nuclear submarines and missile-centric navy force because its certainly cost effective, risk efficient and more survivable due to the distributed shooters and their ability to shoot and scoot. These can also effectively be used in area denial operations of our navy. Or we should still go for aircraft carriers that will help us navigate the tech learning curve and so that we are not left behind in carriers race?

Many thanks in advance...
The very reasons why many surface vessels of navy are not being ordered cos we are actually concentrating on submarines although Nuclear ones. Each Nuclear Sub is going to cost us 1-1.2 B dollars. We already have 2, plus 2 are being constructed. Also large land based next gen reactor prototypes are also being developed. Though even submarine arm isnt great without P75I, it's actually true, Nuke subs and it's associated infra is milking us of our already meagre resources thanks to decreasing defence budget of Modi govt.
 

Aniruddha Mulay

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The very reasons why many surface vessels of navy are not being ordered cos we are actually concentrating on submarines although Nuclear ones. Each Nuclear Sub is going to cost us 1-1.2 B dollars. We already have 2, plus 2 are being constructed. Also large land based next gen reactor prototypes are also being developed. Though even submarine arm isnt great without P75I, it's actually true, Nuke subs and it's associated infra is milking us of our already meagre resources thanks to decreasing defence budget of Modi govt.
SSBN have a separate budget allocation due to its strategic nature.
 

no smoking

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Can someone educate me on my noob question that we must focus moar heavily on nuclear submarines and missile-centric navy force because its certainly cost effective, risk efficient and more survivable due to the distributed shooters and their ability to shoot and scoot. These can also effectively be used in area denial operations of our navy. Or we should still go for aircraft carriers that will help us navigate the tech learning curve and so that we are not left behind in carriers race?

Many thanks in advance...
You need to ask yourselves one question: what is the major strategic mission of India navy. Why do you need your navy for: Protecting your coast area from hostile navy forces or protecting your ocean transport line and overseas interest. If the answer is the former, a soviet style missile-centric navy force is good enough. If it is the latter, you definitely need aircraft carriers.

If you look at India navy history, obviously they already have their answer.
 

Trololo

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Should invest in a base in Mauritius, Reunion rather than aircrafts carriers. We can base 3-4 squadron plus coastal battery and anti ship missiles there. We don't definitely need 5-6 carriers. The govt is right now concentrating on Nuke Ballistic and Attack subs. So AC are not going to get funding anytime soon.
Better yet turn Mauritius into an Indian state or special region similar to erstwhile Hong Kong. We will get a base, they will get access to tremendous economic and military muscle. Laughable I know, but then if wishes were horses beggars would ride.
 

WolfPack86

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Basin trials of Indigenous Aircraft Carrier completed successfully in Kochi
KOCHI: The basin trials of an Indigenous Aircraft Carrier (IAC) were successfully completed at Cochin Shipyard Limited (CSL) on Monday. Basin trials are primarily aimed at proving the main propulsion plant of the carrier in the harbour and is a precursor to the ensuing sea trials, after which it will be commissioned as INS Vikrant.

According to an official release, the trials were conducted in the presence of Vice-Admiral A K Chawla, Flag Officer Commanding-in-Chief, Southern Naval Command, and Madhu S Nair, chairman and managing director, CSL.

As part of the trials, all four LM2500 gas turbines, main gear boxes, shafting and controllable pitch propellers and the integrated control systems were successfully operated.

Major auxiliary equipment and systems such as the steering gear, air-conditioning plants centrifuges, power generation and distribution system and internal communication equipment were also tested. The sea trials have been planned in the first half of 2021.
 

asaffronladoftherisingsun

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You need to ask yourselves one question: what is the major strategic mission of India navy. Why do you need your navy for: Protecting your coast area from hostile navy forces or protecting your ocean transport line and overseas interest. If the answer is the former, a soviet style missile-centric navy force is good enough. If it is the latter, you definitely need aircraft carriers.

If you look at India navy history, obviously they already have their answer.
Well sir , The Indian Navy has historically been a sea controlling Navy. It had risen to prominence in the Indian ocean region as early as the late 1950's by inducting aircraft carriers, cruisers, destroyers and other blue water craft at a time when all other regional navies were little more than coastal defence forces. I think I got my answer . Your valuable input was greatly appreciated.

The very reasons why many surface vessels of navy are not being ordered cos we are actually concentrating on submarines although Nuclear ones. Each Nuclear Sub is going to cost us 1-1.2 B dollars. We already have 2, plus 2 are being constructed. Also large land based next gen reactor prototypes are also being developed. Though even submarine arm isnt great without P75I, it's actually true, Nuke subs and it's associated infra is milking us of our already meagre resources thanks to decreasing defence budget of Modi govt.
uwu.jpg


Well above is estimated fleet strength under various options that the Indian Navy could follow to maintain submarine numbers, considering that 2 P75I boats are commissioned by 2030.

And with all due respect as to defence budget decrease , I asked this question during my cds lectures about pegging Defence expenditures as a % of GDP . I was told that since Defence is one of several items that the Central Government spends on, even this small % difference in the rise of India’s GDP vs CGE means it is hard to maintain Defence Expenditures as a fixed % of GDP. If one excludes Pensions from the Core Defence Expenditures then a rising Pensions bill also adds more stress to this goal of some of maintaining a fixed % of GDP spending. A better and more realistic metric (instead of % of GDP) to judge Defence spending would as a % of CGE (Central Government Expenditures).Also he told that India’s defence expenditure is compared with other nations in terms of % of GDP which have a much higher tax to GDP Ratio. However, long term the only sure shot way of protecting India’s national interest is rapid economic growth over the next few years. As India’s GDP grows, the CGE and its Defence Budget will also grow automatically with it. A faster growth of the Indian economy gonna allow more room for the government of the day to give healthy increases for the Defence Budget .
 

johnq

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Well sir , The Indian Navy has historically been a sea controlling Navy. It had risen to prominence in the Indian ocean region as early as the late 1950's by inducting aircraft carriers, cruisers, destroyers and other blue water craft at a time when all other regional navies were little more than coastal defence forces. I think I got my answer . Your valuable input was greatly appreciated.


View attachment 68427

Well above is estimated fleet strength under various options that the Indian Navy could follow to maintain submarine numbers, considering that 2 P75I boats are commissioned by 2030.

And with all due respect as to defence budget decrease , I asked this question during my cds lectures about pegging Defence expenditures as a % of GDP . I was told that since Defence is one of several items that the Central Government spends on, even this small % difference in the rise of India’s GDP vs CGE means it is hard to maintain Defence Expenditures as a fixed % of GDP. If one excludes Pensions from the Core Defence Expenditures then a rising Pensions bill also adds more stress to this goal of some of maintaining a fixed % of GDP spending. A better and more realistic metric (instead of % of GDP) to judge Defence spending would as a % of CGE (Central Government Expenditures).Also he told that India’s defence expenditure is compared with other nations in terms of % of GDP which have a much higher tax to GDP Ratio. However, long term the only sure shot way of protecting India’s national interest is rapid economic growth over the next few years. As India’s GDP grows, the CGE and its Defence Budget will also grow automatically with it. A faster growth of the Indian economy gonna allow more room for the government of the day to give healthy increases for the Defence Budget .
The member who answered the question has been posting pro-Chinese government propaganda on this forum (check China economy and Kaveri engine threads) for quite some time, so may have ulterior motives; just to let you know.
 

asaffronladoftherisingsun

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The member who answered the question has been posting pro-Chinese government propaganda on this forum (check China economy and Kaveri engine threads) for quite some time, so may have ulterior motives; just to let you know.
I keep my senses on alert still thanks for caring
 

Rajaraja Chola

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SSBN have a separate budget allocation due to its strategic nature.
Yes of course. So is the budget of the SFC. Ultimately the beneficiary is the Navy. Even if they spend like 1B outside defence budget purely for the Navy, considering their known budget, it's still huge.
 

Rajaraja Chola

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Well sir , The Indian Navy has historically been a sea controlling Navy. It had risen to prominence in the Indian ocean region as early as the late 1950's by inducting aircraft carriers, cruisers, destroyers and other blue water craft at a time when all other regional navies were little more than coastal defence forces. I think I got my answer . Your valuable input was greatly appreciated.


View attachment 68427

Well above is estimated fleet strength under various options that the Indian Navy could follow to maintain submarine numbers, considering that 2 P75I boats are commissioned by 2030.

And with all due respect as to defence budget decrease , I asked this question during my cds lectures about pegging Defence expenditures as a % of GDP . I was told that since Defence is one of several items that the Central Government spends on, even this small % difference in the rise of India’s GDP vs CGE means it is hard to maintain Defence Expenditures as a fixed % of GDP. If one excludes Pensions from the Core Defence Expenditures then a rising Pensions bill also adds more stress to this goal of some of maintaining a fixed % of GDP spending. A better and more realistic metric (instead of % of GDP) to judge Defence spending would as a % of CGE (Central Government Expenditures).Also he told that India’s defence expenditure is compared with other nations in terms of % of GDP which have a much higher tax to GDP Ratio. However, long term the only sure shot way of protecting India’s national interest is rapid economic growth over the next few years. As India’s GDP grows, the CGE and its Defence Budget will also grow automatically with it. A faster growth of the Indian economy gonna allow more room for the government of the day to give healthy increases for the Defence Budget .
When a country talks or complaints about Pensions, then they should disband the armed forces. That's the least a country can do for its soldiers who give away their best years for the Military. The only reason we are talking bout it is we are not allocating enough money on defence.

Even if we talk of total expenditure of defence wrt central govt expenditures, it's still decreasing on an percentage. We are spending huge amount on infrastructure, social schemes, education etc which is a must, but not to the level that you spend that from the cost of defence. Many of the highway projects would have huge gestation period ie the time taken to kick-start economy in a region after a highway is laid. Some regions have a quick gestation and the govt should prioritise them first instead of blindly building highway right left and centre. It's not going to give income any time immediately. Probably 20-25 years down the line.

Also it's the responsibility of the govt to raise money through business and growth in economy. One can't defund the army to the point of restlessness. GoI goes for emergency purchases almost everytime when there is a problem to the point of embarrassment. Anyway this is a different topic altogether. It's just a party which came to power hyping on nationalism is a disappointment on modernisation.
 

captscooby81

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The problem is not about STOBAR capabilities , Its about the LIFT in the IAC Vikrant which can only accommodate Mig-29K . Rafale won't fit in those LIFT because it don't have folding wings . So technically nothing will work in IAC Vikrant apart from Mig-29k , Reason's why TEDBF is very crucial project now for IN if they want to find a replacement fighter for Mig-29K

SH18 was tested this summer on ski jump.
Dassault say for long time that Rafale can be used on ski jump. Trials made? I don't know.
So Mig29K (and SU33KUB) is not the sole solution.
 

silentlurker

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The problem is not about STOBAR capabilities , Its about the LIFT in the IAC Vikrant which can only accommodate Mig-29K . Rafale won't fit in those LIFT because it don't have folding wings . So technically nothing will work in IAC Vikrant apart from Mig-29k , Reason's why TEDBF is very crucial project now for IN if they want to find a replacement fighter for Mig-29K
How large are Elevators on Vikrant? Smaller or larger than the 10m ones on Gorshkov?
 

captscooby81

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You can bet on GTRE developing a better engine than russkies for sure. All the russkie did was use us as cash cow and milk us to every last drop of blood forget milk

Perhaps Russia will eventually develop a more reliable engine for the Mig-29k. I wish there was a way to put more reliable western engines (F404) on it.
 

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