India's next big buy is a missile from US

RPK

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India's next big buy is a missile from US - dnaindia.com

New Delhi: India is looking at the possibility of yet another major government-to-government military deal with the United States.

The army headquarters is in the advanced stages of evaluating the Javelin anti-tank missile for large-scale induction. If the missile suits India, it could lead to another FMS (foreign military sale) deal with the US, without competitive international tendering, and possibly even without extensive field trials.

The arrangement, if it works out, would be a strong signal about India's intention to continue taking in US military products despite hiccups in bilateral ties that cropped up since the Obama administration took charge in the US. Sources said the deal could run into several hundred million dollars.

It is not clear how the induction of Javelin would affect the indigenously developed Nag anti-tank missiles, which were cleared for production this July after two decades of trials and research. The Indian Army has ordered 443 Nag missiles and 13 missile carriers.

Since the Nag was on the drawing board for several years, the Army started desperately looking for new generation anti-tank missiles to penetrate modern day tanks. As of now, the Army has old Milan missiles, a European product, and the Russian Konkours, both of which are manufactured in India under licence at the Bharat Dynamics Limited.

Last summer, India was looking to purchase the Israeli anti-tank missile, Spike, but that plan had to be abandoned after the missile failed miserably at the trials in Pokhran. It may just be a coincidence that the Army has not opted for international competitive tendering for buying the missile, and it fits into the larger trend emerging in military purchases -- of minimal competitive tendering, and preference for non-tender purchases.

Beneficiaries of this easy route are Israel, US, and to some extent Russia. While purchases from Israel and US are mostly new, Russia is the beneficiary of "repeat orders" on the Sukhoi-30 MKI and MIG-29K fighters as well as helicopters.
 

F-14

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the The FGM-148 Javelin is an American-made man-portable anti-tank guided missile

the Nag is a Havey anti-tank guided missile disinged to be launced from the Namica's and the Weponizied Dhruv and the LCH
 

nitesh

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Hogwash article. How does man portable missiles compare with heavy vehicle fired missiles?

Typical DDM
 

F-14

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i think nitishji we need to prun the defense reporting sector in the Indian News media
 

indian_blues

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India's buying spree really undermines the indeginous programmes, probably we should cool down a bit.
 

Martian

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"another Indian missile program down."

"India's buying spree really undermines the indeginous programmes, probably we should cool down a bit."

"Sources said the deal could run into several hundred million dollars."

From what I've read, the Nag was successfully tested. If hundreds of millions of dollars are being spent on a foreign weapon system then we are unlikely to see a second-generation Nag anytime soon. For those of us who enjoy a diversity of weapons systems, this is bad news.
 

K Factor

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the The FGM-148 Javelin is an American-made man-portable anti-tank guided missile

the Nag is a Havey anti-tank guided missile disinged to be launced from the Namica's and the Weponizied Dhruv and the LCH
another Indian missile program down.
India's buying spree really undermines the indeginous programmes, probably we should cool down a bit.

Guys, don't get so disheartened.

As F-14 said before, Javelin is a light Man-portable missile, with a max range of 2.5 km. It can also be used in anti-personnel or anti-bunker/building role.

The Nag is a heavy pure anti-armor missile (IIR Seeker - MMW Seeker in development?) with a range of 7 km.

The purpose and operation is different for the two, its like comparing apples and oranges.

We may still see Nag-2 with extended range, better armor penetration and MMW seeker. Also, the helicopter launched version (for LCH) is rumored to be in development.
 

Vladimir79

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I remember back in 2004 the US Marines were critised for using the Javeline to take out buildings with suspected insurgents. Instead of using the cheap AT4, they used a $200,000 launcher. IMO, the Javeline's range is really too limited to be an effective weapon against tanks, and against buildings and personnell it is far too expensive. Rocket launchers are just as effective against the low cost targets.
 

mattster

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You guys who are always talking about indigenous weapons dont seem to get a simple point - The main job of the army commanders to to make sure that they give their men in uniform that best weapons, tactics, leadership, and chances of success in a war.

The boys in the uniform are the ones who are laying their lives on the line for the country. It is not the job of an Indian General to wait till some goverment lab comes up with a suitable weapon system that meets the requirements while his troops are left with endless assurances but no hardware or substandard hardware.

Indigenous systems are great but, asking the army to compromise their effectiveness to wait for locally made systems to mature, is just something that no army commander will want to do.

This is why weapons systems should be developed by private firms and not government organisations. If a private Indian company develops a weapon system that is not up to the Army's standards; they can simply reject it without much fuss.

But when you have DRDO Labs developing every single item; if the Army rejects a sub-standard system, then invariably it becomes a very politically heated issue with multiple government entities each vying to protect their own turf and the politicians will then get dragged into the debate.

Eventually the Army may be forced to induct substandard/out-of-date products that the Army commanders themselves know will compromise the safety and effectiveness of the frontline troops.

If you are an Army Commander; there is probably nothing worse than knowing that you are not able to give your men that best weapons and the best chance of survival because of some beaurocratic political bullshit.
 

nitesh

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This whole talk is BS here NAG is vehicle mounted and heli mounted (in development) missile. It is NOT man portable missile. It has it's own role to play of dedicated anti armor with regular armor formations and infantry battalions or mechanized formations. Just talking jingoistic about home grown products not getting accepted or talking baseless about forces not accepting inferior weapons without putting facts and figures is not a good sign kindly desist from the same.
 

ppgj

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You guys who are always talking about indigenous weapons dont seem to get a simple point - The main job of the army commanders to to make sure that they give their men in uniform that best weapons, tactics, leadership, and chances of success in a war.

The boys in the uniform are the ones who are laying their lives on the line for the country. It is not the job of an Indian General to wait till some goverment lab comes up with a suitable weapon system that meets the requirements while his troops are left with endless assurances but no hardware or substandard hardware.

Indigenous systems are great but, asking the army to compromise their effectiveness to wait for locally made systems to mature, is just something that no army commander will want to do.

This is why weapons systems should be developed by private firms and not government organisations. If a private Indian company develops a weapon system that is not up to the Army's standards; they can simply reject it without much fuss.

But when you have DRDO Labs developing every single item; if the Army rejects a sub-standard system, then invariably it becomes a very politically heated issue with multiple government entities each vying to protect their own turf and the politicians will then get dragged into the debate.

Eventually the Army may be forced to induct substandard/out-of-date products that the Army commanders themselves know will compromise the safety and effectiveness of the frontline troops.

If you are an Army Commander; there is probably nothing worse than knowing that you are not able to give your men that best weapons and the best chance of survival because of some beaurocratic political bullshit.
mattster, you seem to forget one thing. whether an equipment is imported or manufactured by a private firm or drdo - it has to go through the user trials conducted by the respective armed wing and it has to meet the stated requirements. so, when anybody talks of indigenous equipment, the above point is taken into consideration.
 

Sridhar

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France is also buying them For afghan operations over their own Milans. So we also have to move , But what happened to purchase of Spikes from Israel.
 

mattster

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mattster, you seem to forget one thing. whether an equipment is imported or manufactured by a private firm or drdo - it has to go through the user trials conducted by the respective armed wing and it has to meet the stated requirements. so, when anybody talks of indigenous equipment, the above point is taken into consideration.
Oh Yeah........"stated requirements" is the key word. What happens when the so called "stated requirements" are massaged, bent, and moulded so that a substandard system is forced to be inducted.

Dont tell me this did not happen with the overweight Arjun !!

At least the Chinese are smart enough not to induct some of their own lousy systems; for instance even the chinese airforce refused to induct the chinese made fighter. They export it to other countries.
 

ppgj

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Dont tell me this did not happen with the overweight Arjun !!
sorry. you are wrong. if you read the history of arjun you will know. arjun is the result of IA's own requirement. they wanted a heavy mbt in the class of the patton tanks that pakistan was acquiring at that time. it is not drdro fault. btw in ithe heavy class it is as good as any in its class.
 

ppgj

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mattster,
just to add to my previous post. a link worth taking a look-

History of Arjun Tank Development | Frontier India Strategic and Defence - News, Analysis, Opinion - Aviation, Military, Commodity, Energy, Transportation, Conflict, Environment, Intelligence, Internal Security

The Arjun Tank had its detractors in form of internal rivalry of the users, the Indian arms import lobby and media seeking sensationalism. Since India did not have any Tank design experience and many defence experts expressed doubts about the viability of the Arjun Tank project when it started and questioned the capability of the CVRDE to design and develop tanks. DRDO took these challenges and ever shifting qualitative requirements, in stride.
 

Atul

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you cannot compare the FGM-148 Javelin with NAG, both stand for a different catagory.

the snap below clearly shows no smoke or flame thus making it difficult to identify the exact launch place..



i was never in favour of the American weapons (since americans have always been funding & weaponising pakistan).
 

K Factor

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you cannot compare the FGM-148 Javelin with NAG, both stand for a different catagory.

the snap below clearly shows no smoke or flame thus making it difficult to identify the exact launch place..



i was never in favour of the American weapons (since americans have always been funding & weaponising pakistan).
Yes Atul, the projectile itself is smokeless, but from the picture you posted, there seems to quite a large back-blast that will make it dangerous to fire from enclosed spaces such as buildings or bunkers !!
 

ajay_ijn

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does anyone know if kornet was considered??
I think Army considered only IIR guided missiles and considering high cost of these IIR guidance, Army would would go for more wire-guided or laser guided missiles and less of these. So theres a chance for kornet but Army is still inclined to buy more Milan 2 missiles.
 

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