India's Current & Future UAVs & UCAVs

[Knowitall]

Let me give you a summary of what has gone in between us in last few posts.

First you said that SpyLite is indigenous system which I categorically pointed out that it's not. SpyLite is manufactured by bluebird. This JV is nothing more then a hogwash. SpyLite has accumulated more then 10k sorties. Now no way these sorties been undertaken with Cyient technology for sure.

Next I said that the news of RQ-11 purchase is nothing more then a clickbait for me and there I've shared the screenshot of bluebird.com(OEM of SpyLite). Bluebird categorically declared in their website that they have received order from IA for SpyLite which I even highlighted. Did AvroVironment (OEM of RQ-11) declared any deal with IA? Did IA spokes person anywhere mentioned such a deal?
You have shared a tweet of Cyient tech and termed me foolish by giving me proof of something which I already gave.

IA rejected RQ-11 over SpyLite because range wise, payload wise, endurance wise SpyLite is much superior to RQ-11. But after Galwan incident I'd not be surprised if IA again fall back for RQ-11. RQ-11 is a much smaller UAV which could be carried in a backpack and could be launched from hand of the operator. As opposite to that, SpyLite is a much heavier system & requires a special rail system to launch. It means that a small SECTION (10/12 person) patrol party would find RQ-11to be more practical in field then a SpyLite. Ukraine has not fielded SpyLite & no where it is written that it can't be jammed.

My point is, no where I am saying RQ-11 to be superior to SpyLite. But bringing in one news item again and again which is not even related to us is doing justice to the system.
As of now, I am taking this news of RQ-11 acquisition to be nothing more then a click bait. But if IA goes for its acquisition, I could relate to their logic.

1) spylite is the result of a jv.


Cyient Solutions & Systems will indigenize, manufacture, assemble, integrate, and test advanced UAV systems at its production facilities in Hyderabad by leveraging BlueBird’s technology and manufacturing know-how. Cyient Solutions & Systems, supported by BlueBird, will also provide comprehensive aftermarket services, including spares, repairs, maintenance, and support to end users across India.

Thats why i used the term homegrown solution because the drones are being manufactured here.

2) ukarine has fielded rq-11 and the article i linked too explains that the drones get jammed often and are also hacked.

I never said skylite was used by ukarine.

I understand your point that the article for rq-11 is click bait what i was trying to ask you is that do you feel it is alright for us to buy this system which has failed standard trials set up by our own army especially when the price is so steep.

My linking of the cyient tweet was to show that it was a jv and that both drones are of the same category as they were competing in the same tender.

 

[patriots]

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[janme]

@Knowitall @Chinmoy


Tweet :- The Indian Army has finalised the Tata-Aurora Aquilon & @IdeaForge
Switch in a contest for 200 hand-launched infantry reconnaissance drones. Details on the crucial bid that's within reach. https://bit.ly/2ZqDFl1

As a general note, avoid posting news related to defence acquisitions from Twitter accounts, only from verifiable sources.

 

[Knowitall]

@Knowitall @Chinmoy


Tweet :- The Indian Army has finalised the Tata-Aurora Aquilon & @IdeaForge
Switch in a contest for 200 hand-launched infantry reconnaissance drones. Details on the crucial bid that's within reach. https://bit.ly/2ZqDFl1

As a general note, avoid posting news related to defence acquisitions from Twitter accounts, only from verifiable sources.

Thank god we went for this we had already brought 49 aquilon some time back glad we continued with this.

As long as it is something being made or designed in India it's good.

 

[Chinmoy]

1) spylite is the result of a jv.


Cyient Solutions & Systems will indigenize, manufacture, assemble, integrate, and test advanced UAV systems at its production facilities in Hyderabad by leveraging BlueBird’s technology and manufacturing know-how. Cyient Solutions & Systems, supported by BlueBird, will also provide comprehensive aftermarket services, including spares, repairs, maintenance, and support to end users across India.

Thats why i used the term homegrown solution because the drones are being manufactured here.

2) ukarine has fielded rq-11 and the article i linked too explains that the drones get jammed often and are also hacked.

I never said skylite was used by ukarine.

I understand your point that the article for rq-11 is click bait what i was trying to ask you is that do you feel it is alright for us to buy this system which has failed standard trials set up by our own army especially when the price is so steep.

My linking of the cyient tweet was to show that it was a jv and that both drones are of the same category as they were competing in the same tender.

Sorry to break your heart again. JV in between Cyient & Bluebird was signed in April 2018. But SpyLite was already there in existence before that. Read this news.

9 Israeli drone startups that are soaring to success - ISRAEL21c

Israel has become a powerhouse in the development of military UAVs and, increasingly, commercial UAVs and technologies. We take a look at some of the most exciting.

www.israel21c.org

Now I agree that subcomponents of the same would be manufactured in India, but it's not a result of the JV.

Second, IA was right when they rejected RQ-11 in first place. With 1 hr endurance & 10km range, it is seriously short legged for IA use. But it was in 2018. Now situation have changed. IA might want to have a system which a small scout team could operate in LAC. For that RQ-11 is better suited. You don't need any special arrangement to deploy it.

 

[Chinmoy]

@Knowitall @Chinmoy


Tweet :- The Indian Army has finalised the Tata-Aurora Aquilon & @IdeaForge
Switch in a contest for 200 hand-launched infantry reconnaissance drones. Details on the crucial bid that's within reach. https://bit.ly/2ZqDFl1

As a general note, avoid posting news related to defence acquisitions from Twitter accounts, only from verifiable sources.

That's why I said that the RQ-11 acquisition is nothing more then a click bait article for me.

 

[Knowitall]

Sorry to break your heart again. JV in between Cyient & Bluebird was signed in April 2018. But SpyLite was already there in existence before that. Read this news.

9 Israeli drone startups that are soaring to success - ISRAEL21c

Israel has become a powerhouse in the development of military UAVs and, increasingly, commercial UAVs and technologies. We take a look at some of the most exciting.

www.israel21c.org

Now I agree that subcomponents of the same would be manufactured in India, but it's not a result of the JV.

Second, IA was right when they rejected RQ-11 in first place. With 1 hr endurance & 10km range, it is seriously short legged for IA use. But it was in 2018. Now situation have changed. IA might want to have a system which a small scout team could operate in LAC. For that RQ-11 is better suited. You don't need any special arrangement to deploy it.

OK sirji let me say it again:-

Spylite

1) creates jobs in India.
2) infrastructure in India
3) spare and supply chain in India.
4) Indian company will get a share of the profits.
5) indigenization of various equipment.

Rq-11

None of the above.

I realize that the drone has existed long before my point always was a home grown solution meaning something made here is better than something coming from outside. Make in India.

Anyways it seems that we are going for an indigenous model so I am a happy man now.

 

[WolfPack86]

The Indian Army has finalised the Tata-Aurora Aquilon &
@IdeaForge
Switch in a contest for 200 hand-launched infantry reconnaissance drones. Details on the crucial bid that's within reach.

 

[Tuco]

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LOL so all the ranting I did in the morning was for nothing?

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

Dont worry the extra orders for vajra are in advance talk.

I hope so. But it's going to sit idle for sure. Not sure if it's 1 year or 2. K9 can be used spectacularly in Ladakh region.

 

[Bhadra]

Lol. Don't even get me started on L&T. Will you set an factory for 100 cars? L&T was promised further orders just like how we ordered t90 and mki in batches and guess what, they are going to sit idle atleast for the next 2 years after their delivery. The so called next orders haven't even cleared DAC. They have started to moan already.

Another is L&T Kattupalli shipyard churning out boats like flies. Even Navy officials were impressed with their capabilities and its now the only shipyard other than Mazdaon Docks capable of building subs. But other than Coast Guards, they havent received single naval ships orders.

I didn't talk of OFB officials or their quality here. My post is specifically about how private companies are shortchanged. They are asked to develop products, which they do, ask them to show in Aero India, Defexpo etc for photo ops and then forgotten. First the user should call for trials or create an competition for the companies to participate in. Or else they shouldn't ask companies to develop UAVs and stuff unless asked. When established companies like LT, Tata, Mahindra, Kalyani, Tonbo, MKU are crying what's the hope for small start ups?
So first ask the Govt and MoD bureaucrats to test those products. Testing doesn't come free, govt has to allocate some budget for that too. After testing, a tender, RFi, rfp, DAC, finance, CCS etc. No start up can survive that long in Indian parlance. When these fock tards plan to import basic Quad copters even when basic coll.kids can do an Arduino boards when Indian companies are available tells the story. I squarely blame the govt for this.

I am with you..
If the govt asks a company to make a product, it must bear development cost.
However in case of L&T it was make and not develop...
L&T have done a very remarkable and excellent job in making and delivering 100 Vajra ... however that does not mean L&T should be given orders of 100 more when OFB has not even delivered six Dhanush over three years.. Well L&T should come out with their own towed guns .. may be MoD would buy those. Assembly lines for guns exist with them... or they can offer their barrels for upgunning 130 mm which OFB will not be able to finish in next ten years.. I would suggest that... MoD must utilize them...

Can Indian Army use Vajra in Galwan or Depsand or Hot spring... they can only project demand for what they need..

Look at all issues holistically. Vajra costs 45 crores. OFB can upgarde 45 numbers of 130mm guns to 155 / 45 for that amount or supply four Dhanush towed How at 12 Cores each...

India has more than 2000 numbers of 13mm guns. Let L&T come forwards and start upgrading some 130mm at the cost of one crores each or lesser than OFB.. That is the business model...

Or let L&T make towed guns at 11 crores per piece ... There is vast requirement of towed guns and I think there would be adequate space for L&T..

 

[Bhadra]

Whats wrong if Indian companies get some preferential treatment, provided they meet all critical requirements. We all want our soldiers to comeback healthy and alive I do not think any of us who argues for Indian systems think otherwise. There are CAG reports that say that SPIKE ATGM failed few times during trials, BAE ULH had barrel problems but still they are in service. Says if ATAGS face similar problem will it be treated in a similar way. Also you are arguing that army plays no role in procurement then where does the government get the requirements from. Who tests those articles and give recommendations. Our boys should get best in class no arguments there but my point is we should buy low tech articles, if its available, from Indian companies only like Micro UAV's the one we are buying from USA right now.

Please tell all that to the CAG and Finance and Audit babus of India who in their zeal have held the entire financial system to ransom..

MoD and Indian Forces do not make financial rules... Even the GoI does not make .... It is the constitutional authority the agency of Parliament of India called - CAG.

 

[Bhadra]

Dont worry the extra orders for vajra are in advance talk.

Is Indian Army going to take Vajra to Tawang or Tangtse...

Are not 100 enough for those machine which will never fire at Pakistanis.. but drink a lo of diesel inside garages.

 

[ARVION]

Is Indian Army going to take Vajra to Tawang or Tangtse...

Are not 100 enough for those machine which will never fire at Pakistanis.. but drink a lo of diesel inside garages.

Well PA field's 150 109 Howitzer's Palladin Howitzers and 100 110 Howitzer's.

 

[Tuco]

The idea forge looks a bit complicated, not sure will be as user friendly as the other one. It has like 5 rotors more points of failure. Just layman's observation.

 

[Bhadra]

Well PA field's 150 109 Howitzer's Palladin Howitzers and 100 110 Howitzer's.

Those will also rust in garages only... Things have to be looked in overall perspective.

Firsts Indian needs about 2800 gun of all types 155mm Gun/how.

Out of that India has procured 25 ULH and 120 are under order.
India needs only 100 SP Guns (five regts) that have been procured.
Rest all are in towed, mounted and SP wheeled category.
Only six Dhanush have been procured..
Rest 2500 are yet to be procured...
Budget i limited...

Then how can anyone start ordering SP tracked gun/How when it is not needed and budget is required for other gun/ how ?? Vajra is most expensive out of all... one can get three to four hows for the price of one Vajra...

 

[ARVION]

Those will also rust in garages only... Things have to be looked in overall perspective.

Firsts Indian needs about 2800 gun of all types 155mm Gun/how.

Out of that India has procured 25 ULH and 120 are under order.
India needs only 100 SP Guns (five regts) that have been procured.
Rest all are in towed, mounted and SP wheeled category.
Only six Dhanush have been procured..
Rest 2500 are yet to be procured...
Budget i limited...

Then how can anyone start ordering SP tracked gun/How when it is not needed and budget is required for other gun/ how ?? Vajra is most expensive out of all... one can get three to four hows for the price of one Vajra...

MoD's thinks otherwise's.

 

[ARVION]

In Febuary.

Infrastructure giant Larsen & Toubro (L&T) on Friday said it has entered into a pact with ideaForge, domestic unmanned aerial vehicles manufacturer, to offer drones and allied systems for defence use. “L&T and ideaForge…have entered (into) an MoU (memorandum of understanding) to offer drones and allied systems for defence use,” the company said in a filing to the BSE.

Both companies will combine their strengths to offer hi-tech integrated drone solutions to enhance security and surveillance. They will also offer anti-drone solutions to counter the threat of malicious or unintended usage of drones.

“The MoU involves collaboration on technology, products, deployment and go-to-market strategies,” it said. It will unlock the full potential of unmanned systems in security, surveillance and protection solutions. With the ever-increasing adoption of drone technology, the partnership will redefine the landscape of unmanned systems.

“We are teaming as partners of choice to provide indigenously developed unmanned systems for Indian and global markets. We are confident that this alliance will create a successful ‘Make in India’ collaboration between a diversified engineering conglomerate and a young, technology-driven company for across-the-range offerings,” J D Patil, whole-time director and senior executive vice-president (defence and smart technologies), L&T, said.

 

[ARVION]

Accordingly to the unconfirmed reports L & T defence's is interested to purchase the hyderabad based Idea Forge's.

 

[Akula]

Those will also rust in garages only... Things have to be looked in overall perspective.

Firsts Indian needs about 2800 gun of all types 155mm Gun/how.

Out of that India has procured 25 ULH and 120 are under order.
India needs only 100 SP Guns (five regts) that have been procured.
Rest all are in towed, mounted and SP wheeled category.
Only six Dhanush have been procured..
Rest 2500 are yet to be procured...
Budget i limited...

Then how can anyone start ordering SP tracked gun/How when it is not needed and budget is required for other gun/ how ?? Vajra is most expensive out of all... one can get three to four hows for the price of one Vajra...

Have we ordered Ammunition Resupply Vehicle for K9 vajra?