India's Biggest Iron Ore Producer Just Fired A Shot Across China's Bow

sob

Mod
Joined
May 4, 2009
Messages
6,425
Likes
3,805
Country flag
If I am not mistaken in the agreement with Posco, there is a clause that will allow Posco to export Iron Ore from it's captive mines in Orissa. How will this proposed ban affect the Posco deal, needs to be assessed.
 

JayATL

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2011
Messages
1,775
Likes
190
What is the goal here? to stick to the chinese and for how long will it work... what happens a decade from now? does india have enough of demand to use close to 80-90% of output internally?
 
Joined
Feb 16, 2009
Messages
29,882
Likes
48,595
Country flag
What is the goal here? to stick to the chinese and for how long will it work... what happens a decade from now? does india have enough of demand to use close to 80-90% of output internally?
The goal should be to sell the end product rather than the raw materials.
 
Joined
Feb 16, 2009
Messages
29,882
Likes
48,595
Country flag
and how far is the infrastructure in place to do so and to what capacity of the exports will it use up?
The infrastructure is still expanding but it is a poltical delay that are preventing bigger players like Mittal steel from entering.
 

amitkriit

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 17, 2009
Messages
2,463
Likes
1,927
The infrastructure is still expanding but it is a poltical delay that are preventing bigger players like Mittal steel from entering.
There was a different reason behind Mittal entering into India, reason was that Mittal wanted to play King, which did not went down well. He was trying to become the next Dhirubhai Ambani, trying to get as much benefit as he could extract. He was literally kicked out, that's the truth. Sometimes its important to show them their real place.
 
Joined
Feb 16, 2009
Messages
29,882
Likes
48,595
Country flag
There was a different reason behind Mittal entering into India, reason was that Mittal wanted to play King, which did not went down well. He was trying to become the next Dhirubhai Ambani, trying to get as much benefit as he could extract. He was literally kicked out, that's the truth. Sometimes its important to show them their real place.
Mr Mittal should have been nicer, the Indian govt played a key role in his Arcelor acquisition.
 

Iamanidiot

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 21, 2009
Messages
5,325
Likes
1,504
Some of the small domestic players are really maturing in the steel industry in Andhra
 

Bangalorean

Ambassador
Joined
Nov 28, 2010
Messages
6,233
Likes
6,854
Country flag
and how far is the infrastructure in place to do so and to what capacity of the exports will it use up?
Infrastructure will come up automatically on the basis of demand and supply. If ore export is banned, the domestic prices of ore will go down. This in turn, will cause two things to happen: a) reduction of steel prices, b) An incentive for new players to enter the steel production field, and for the established ones to expand production, owing to cost reduction in the primary end product.

As this process kicks in, imports of steel will reduce, helping our bugdet deficit. Also, it will be more attractive to produce steel products in India instead of importing it from China, which in turn provides an impetus for industrialists to put their money into establishing steel products.

This ore export ban will kick start the typical free market virtuous cycle.
 

no smoking

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
5,014
Likes
2,309
Country flag
Infrastructure will come up automatically on the basis of demand and supply. If ore export is banned, the domestic prices of ore will go down. This in turn, will cause two things to happen: a) reduction of steel prices, b) An incentive for new players to enter the steel production field, and for the established ones to expand production, owing to cost reduction in the primary end product.

As this process kicks in, imports of steel will reduce, helping our bugdet deficit. Also, it will be more attractive to produce steel products in India instead of importing it from China, which in turn provides an impetus for industrialists to put their money into establishing steel products.

This ore export ban will kick start the typical free market virtuous cycle.
I just question your economic model: the lower price from supply side doesn't necessary mean the boost to demand side unless the price was lower significantly. Considering the multiple cost factors involved in infrastructure, Cheaper steel alone cannot fuel the whole market: what about skilled labor price, cement, construction machine, etc?

In contrast, the lower domestic price may affect investors interest in mining industry, which will impact mining capacity and finally pull the domestic price back to its original position.
 
Joined
Feb 16, 2009
Messages
29,882
Likes
48,595
Country flag
China looks for alternatives as India falters in iron ore trade - The Economic Times

China looks for alternatives as India falters in iron ore trade

PANAJI: In view of the iron ore trade deficit from India, due to prevailing crisis, China has began looking out for alternative markets to meet its requirements, a senior official said today.

"India's Iron Ore supply is not very stable. Who can tell what is the policy about the Iron Ore? Chinese companies are looking for alternatives," Shi Ming Li, Assistant Chief Representative, China Minmetals Corporation, told PTI today.

Last fiscal, China imported 15 per cent of its Iron Ore from India especially Goa, which is less compared to earlier imports.

"India should have stable and transparent mining policy which is important for miners," Ming Li, representative of the state controlled Corporation said.

He was in Goa to participate in the International Iron Ore and Steel Making Raw Materials Conference. He said that China already has alternatives which can be explored to face the deficit.

"Its a turning point for international Iron Ore market," Ming Li claimed, adding Brazil and Australia has lot of capacities which can be looked up to meet the requirement.

China, which has been sourcing the Iron ore from Australia, Brazil and South America besides India is also looking at countries like South Africa, Iran, Ukraine, Congo, South Africa, Zimbabwe, Indonesia and Venezuela for the steady supply of the Iron Ore.

Ming Li said China hopes that exports won't be banned from India. "But it is for the Indian government to decide their own policies," he said.

China does not have long term agreements with India, which usually opts for spot pricing.

Indian traders too concede the fact that the future is uncertain for the Indian Iron ore market in China.

"Indian iron ore exports' future is uncertain. We don't know what will happen tomorrow," said Prem Kumar spokesperson, Pisces Exim Private Limited, India's leading Iron ore exporter.

He said that India too have began scouting for alternate buyer countries, not entirely depending on demand from China.

Kumar's company traded three million tons of Iron ore to China during last fiscal, which means a business of 100 million US dollars.

"Since we are dealing in the low grade ore, we are also looking at Middle East countries which requires this raw material for cement industry," Kumar commented.

Pisces Exim has already started sending shipments to Middle-East countries since last year.

The prevailing uncertainties seem to have forced many of the traders to hold back their plans.

"We wanted to venture in the trading of Iron ore from India to China but plans are held back because of the existing scenario," said Rahul Mulye, representing Coeclerici Asia (Pte) Limited, a Singapore-headquartered trading firm.
 

SHASH2K2

New Member
Joined
May 10, 2010
Messages
5,711
Likes
730
/\/\/\ china and Russia have one of biggest Iron ore reserve in world and still they are looking to import ore and export finished good. Looks like they are trying their level best to protect their natural resources.
 
Joined
Feb 16, 2009
Messages
29,882
Likes
48,595
Country flag
/\/\/\ china and Russia have one of biggest Iron ore reserve in world and still they are looking to import ore and export finished good. Looks like they are trying their level best to protect their natural resources.
It is more costly for China and Russia to process the ore than India.
 

SHASH2K2

New Member
Joined
May 10, 2010
Messages
5,711
Likes
730
It is more costly for China and Russia to process the ore than India.
Truth is that even Indian steel manufacturers are not able to find good quality ores and have to buy from black market . why should we import finished goods using our ore . It should have been stopped long back. we were helping Chinese at cost of Indian manufacturers.
 

trackwhack

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2011
Messages
3,757
Likes
2,590
Iron Ore Exports should have been banned 30 years ago. Any ore being exported by India adds a fancy number to our GDP but does not do anything in terms of the wealth reaching our people. The mining industry is the most corrupt in the country, the laborers are treated like slaves, the environment is treated like a toilet and all the payments are received in Swiss accounts bypassing our taxmen. Even the little money collected as royalty that goes to the exchequer is eaten along the way by a thousand bureaucrats.

We must ban all ore imports with immediate effect. Without adding value to our precious ore, we are losing high end employment, destroying the lives of the poor laborers and destroying our ecosystems as there is no accountability on the mining firms to renurture the environment.

And to top it all China exports steel back to India as finished products. Fking miserable.
 

cir

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 28, 2010
Messages
1,996
Likes
269
Don't get so worked up, our Indian friends.

China is reducing the import of iron ore from India, for it has decided to increase internal supply and found better alternative sources.

You lot will see a dramatic drop in export starting 2012.

So be happy. :rofl:

PS Better start looking for new markets now.
PSS sorry for the trade deficit which will see a huge climb next year because of a much shrunk volume in ore export.
 

trackwhack

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2011
Messages
3,757
Likes
2,590
Don't get so worked up, our Indian friends.

China is reducing the import of iron ore from India, for it has decided to increase internal supply and found better alternative sources.

You lot will see a dramatic drop in export starting 2012.

So be happy. :rofl:

PS Better start looking for new markets now.
PSS sorry for the trade deficit which will see a huge climb next year because of a much shrunk volume in ore export.
You're pretty clueless about what you are talking about and so pardoned.

Yeah dig up the dirt at home. I've heard its very rich ore.:rolleyes:
 
Joined
Feb 16, 2009
Messages
29,882
Likes
48,595
Country flag
Don't get so worked up, our Indian friends.

China is reducing the import of iron ore from India, for it has decided to increase internal supply and found better alternative sources.

You lot will see a dramatic drop in export starting 2012.

So be happy. :rofl:

PS Better start looking for new markets now.
PSS sorry for the trade deficit which will see a huge climb next year because of a much shrunk volume in ore export.
This means the Chinese economy is slowing dramatically less steel demand means worst economy. Why you are happy about this is strange?? It also will prove China is lying about it's growth when it makes claims of 8% growth next year.
 
Joined
Feb 16, 2009
Messages
29,882
Likes
48,595
Country flag
Lies, lies and China`s damned GDP statistics - China perspectives | Moneyweb.com

Lies, lies and China's damned GDP statistics


ASIA CORRESPONDENT: China makes the headlines almost daily for its rip-roaring economic successes. If it is not the gross domestic product (GDP) of the country wowing international investors with its nearly double-digit growth trajectory, it is the staggering trade figures in various sectors.

New revelations that have emerged in the worldwide media - although not in China - through the controversial WikiLeaks website confirm we should be taking China's national statistics with a very large pinch of salt. The Wall Street Journal recounts how the country's new vice-premier Li Keqiang happily told US diplomats he is convinced GDP figures are man-made.

He was enjoying dinner, as the Communist Party secretary of Liaoning province, with the then US Ambassador Clark Randt in 2007 when he shared his thoughts on the flaws in the nation's data collection.

The cable, we are told, revealed that Li focused on three figures when evaluating his province's economy: 1) electricity consumption; 2) volume of rail cargo, believed to be fairly accurate as fees are charged for each unit of weight; and 3) amount of loans disbursed, which tends to be accurate given interest fees charged.

By looking at these three figures, Li said he can measure with relative accuracy the speed of economic growth. Recounts The Wall Street Journal: "All other figures, especially GDP statistics, are 'for reference only,' he said smiling...GDP figures are 'man-made' and therefore unreliable," the cable paraphrases Mr Li as saying."

Li must have choked on his chao mian on hearing the news that his private dinner conversation was so easily recorded and subsequently shared with the wider world. And his bosses and comrades are unlikely to be pleased that he was so candid with outsiders, in particular Americans, about the veracity of China's glowing GPD figures - a huge source of national pride.

Nevertheless, Li's views could hardly have been surprising to Ambassador Clark Randt and friends. From a US information-gathering perspective, this was not espionage at its best.

The Americans need only have asked the average asset manager just about anywhere in the world, even in sleepy distant Africa, for his or her views on China's national data to be told something similar. A quick internet search might even have done the job, freeing up Randt for an evening at home with family or friends.

For many years, market watchers have eyed China's national statistics warily. Yet, ironically, this is a country in which many thousands of people must be employed in roles of collating, reporting and storing data.

There are many laws and regulations compelling organisations, from universities to commercial businesses, to report astonishing amounts of information to the authorities at various levels. With careers based on how good economic numbers look, the widely-held suspicion is that the figures are massaged for presentation to superiors, from the local level up.

Chinese citizens, meanwhile, are none-the-wiser about the WikiLeaks drama. Very little is being said about WikiLeaks in China, other than that its founder Julian Assange is up on sex charges. As no-one in China really knows who he is, the accusations are unlikely to be of interest. No doubt the Chinese government, which keeps a tight rein on editorial content, would like to discredit Assange and WikiLeaks to the wider population in order to diffuse the impact of any embarrassing or damaging information that might get out.

As the WikiLeaks storm developed in the world, Chinese authorities quickly moved to block the WikiLeaks internet site. It cannot be accessed legally from behind China's so-called Great Firewall.

Does it matter that the Chinese are oblivious to the brouhaha around the WikiLeaks revelations?

Maybe it is a good thing. After all, what would the tens of thousands of Chinese investors who have ploughed their savings into real estate and other sectors dependent on rosy GDP projections think if they hear that even their leaders believe the figures could be little more than an illusion?

Then there is inflation which, although rising, is being kept in check, we are assured. One suspects that ordinary citizens who buy their groceries daily would not be surprised that the nation's figures aren't accurate, though they could easily be annoyed if they believe they are being spun a yarn by their revered leaders about the extent of the problem.

Li is tipped to be the country's next economic leader after Premier Wen Jiabao steps down. Perhaps the WikiLeaks' exposé, which suggests he has a loose tongue at the dinner table, will spoil his chances of assuming that mantle.

On the other hand, if he does make it to that top job, it will be interesting to see which figures he uses when discussing his country's situation. And how he proposes to fix the country's data problems. After all, if you can't trust the statistics, you can't rely on them when making important decisions.

Also featuring in the WikiLeaks saga, meanwhile, is Xi Jinping, the man expected to be China's next president. What did the Americans find out about him? Wow! He is a fan of Hollywood movies.

Again, this is hardly astonishing information to elicit about anyone in China, let alone a prominent politician. Beijing's shopping streets and markets are awash with Hollywood movie DVDs, with pirate copies easily bought in shops just about anywhere in China in order to feed the national insatiable appetite for Hollywood movies.

It would have been more interesting to learn whether Xi is a man of principle who only buys the more expensive originals, considering that China's leaders have been trying to reassure their counterparts that they are committed to developing greater respect for intellectual property rights.

From a distance, and from behind the Great Firewall: What do the WikiLeaks revelations about China mean for the world? We should continue to exercise great caution and not rely on their statistics and national information when making investment and business decisions related to China. There is still much work for China to do to ensure its statistics have credibility.

Looking at the US, meanwhile, these revelations suggest that their diplomats should go back to spy school. What have they learnt about China's new leaders, really? The Americans laughed when an idiotic band of Russian spies was unearthed in their midst earlier this year. The WikiLeaks saga may be embarrassing for Xi and Li, but they are much more so for Ambassador Randt and pals.

Still, this is bound to provide fodder for a Hollywood movie. C'mon Sasha Cohen: how about jumping across the border from Kazakhstan for a "Borat does Beijing"?
 

Global Defence

New threads

Articles

Top