India's Air Defense System and its Capabilities

cloud_9

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New Delhi, Nov. 16: As Israeli missiles shot down two rockets aimed at the city of Ashdod this afternoon, an officer in the defence establishment in New Delhi totted up the scores.
India is closely watching missile defences deployed by Israel in its "Operation Pillar of Defence", the latest flare-up between the Hamas and Israel across the Gaza Strip .
These are systems that the Indian military is evaluating. Chiefly, the Indian military is focusing on the performance of a system called "Iron Dome " that is the defence mechanism for a clutch of cities and settlements in Israel ' including the southern suburbs of Tel Aviv ' that are within range of the rockets fired from Gaza.
Southern Israel this week has been the true test for Iron Dome ' a system touted by Israeli military officials as a "game changer". Iron Dome first became operational last year and intercepts rockets fired from short distances of up to 80km with up to 80 per cent effectiveness.
The system, largely funded by the US and developed by the Israeli company Rafael, works by using a radar detection and tracking system to determine whether rockets will fall in areas needing protection. It then fires interception missiles that destroy the warheads and engines of incoming rockets.
The Jerusalem Post newspaper reported today of 83 missiles fired from the Gaza Strip in the hours after the killing of a Hamas commander, a majority were neutralised by a missile shield.
In 2009, the Indian Air Force was Israel 's first foreign customer for the Spyder missile defence system ' a Quick Reaction Surface to Air Missile (QR-SAM) ' that is replacing vintage Soviet-origin OSA-AK system. The value of the contract was not disclosed.
India's requirement of missile defence systems are huge and Israel has been a steady supplier. It supplied the Barak I that the Indian Navy has installed or is installing on almost all its frontline ships. The Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) also has a project with Israel to develop the Barak NG (next generation) that will be deployed on ships that the Indian Navy has on order.
An estimate of India's missile defence requirements is difficult to make because of the secrecy involved. The army and the air force's missile defence systems largely made up of outdated Pechora and OSA-AK systems procured from the Soviets.
In March this year, through a letter that was leaked, the then chief of army staff, Gen. V.K. Singh, had told Prime Minister Manmohan Singh that missile defence systems were 97 per cent obsolete and that they could not protect high value targets.
India's own short-range missile defence programmes ' the Akash and the Trishul ' have not been able to meet the requirements of the armed forces.
Since 2010, Rafael Advanced Systems is known to have offered two missile defence projects ' the "Iron Dome" and another called "David's Sling" to the Indian armed forces.
A developer of Iron Dome at Rafael's headquarters said that one of the problems with the system was its high cost.
Each time an Iron Dome missile is fired it costs about $70,000 (Rs 9.3 lakh). Israeli police reported that in the first few hours of Israel's current operation in Gaza, Iron Dome shot down 18 rockets that would have hit civilian areas.
"The problem with Iron Dome is that it is not a solution. It is not the final answer but rather an assistance to the communities under fire," the Rafael developer said.

:megusta:
 

sasi

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the Akash have not been able to meet the requirements of the armed forces.
~ Without met requriements, our armed forces ordered 2000-3000 missles ?
~
an officer in the defence establishment in New Delhi totted up the scores.
~what is wrong with the unnamed officers ? One more foreign journal says that Indian army is looking for 22 apache heli from Boeing. Even our jingos didn't get news ?
 

Kunal Biswas

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Iron dome is designed to track and destroy small 80mm-155mm Arty and Mortar Shells..

Where as Akash is designed to track and destroy Enemy Aircraft / Cruise Missiles / Drone & UAVs..
 

cloud_9

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^ I think it can handle short range rockets too.

Ok something from the brochure

The Iron Dome is the only dual mission system in the world that provides an effective defense solution for countering rockets, artillery & mortars (C-RAM) as well as aircraft, helicopters, UAVs, PGMs. The system is an effective system for countering C-RAM threats with ranges of up to 70 km and for VSHORAD protection (up to 10 km). The system operates in all weather conditions, including low clouds, rain, dust storms or fog.
 
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Hari Sud

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Israeli success with Iron Dome is its geography with respect to Gaza Strip.

Yes Iron Dome with 80% certainty will kill an incoming missile or a artillery or mortar shell. If a multitude of missiles are fired then Iron Dome is useless. What the Israelis have done more successful is flying their UAV over Gaza and looking for the launch site of the missiles. This is coordinated with Iron Dome radar which calculates its trajectory and the exact point of origin.

Once the origin of the missile is known then aircraft come and bomb it with great accuracy. Most of the missiles which are to be launched are destroyed on ground. Whatever is launched after much of these having destroyed on the ground are tackled by the Iron Dome.

Hence as i said above, it is not only the Iron Dome but the close proximity of the launch sites thanks to the local geography that has made Iron Dome so admired.

Is it relevant for India where 10 dummy missiles and one nuclear missile is launched at India from say Sagodha airbase 300 km away.

First how do you distinguish dummy from the real one.

Say you shot down ten missiles and one got away with the best of Iron Dome or other anti missile system in layers.

I hate to imagine that the one which got away is nuclear.

Hence in layman's scenario the Iron Dome and other systems proved useless. That does not mean that anti missile are useless. I am hoping that the one that got away is dummy missile. That proved the worth of anti missile system. I will certainly vote for it.

What is the foolproof system to meet anybody launching nuclear missile at India?

The foolproof system is guaranted destruction of the nation launching a nuclear missile at India.
 

agentperry

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Israeli success with Iron Dome is its geography with respect to Gaza Strip.

Yes Iron Dome with 80% certainty will kill an incoming missile or a artillery or mortar shell. If a multitude of missiles are fired then Iron Dome is useless. What the Israelis have done more successful is flying their UAV over Gaza and looking for the launch site of the missiles. This is coordinated with Iron Dome radar which calculates its trajectory and the exact point of origin.

Once the origin of the missile is known then aircraft come and bomb it with great accuracy. Most of the missiles which are to be launched are destroyed on ground. Whatever is launched after much of these having destroyed on the ground are tackled by the Iron Dome.

Hence as i said above, it is not only the Iron Dome but the close proximity of the launch sites thanks to the local geography that has made Iron Dome so admired.

Is it relevant for India where 10 dummy missiles and one nuclear missile is launched at India from say Sagodha airbase 300 km away.

First how do you distinguish dummy from the real one.

Say you shot down ten missiles and one got away with the best of Iron Dome or other anti missile system in layers.

I hate to imagine that the one which got away is nuclear.

Hence in layman's scenario the Iron Dome and other systems proved useless. That does not mean that anti missile are useless. I am hoping that the one that got away is dummy missile. That proved the worth of anti missile system. I will certainly vote for it.

What is the foolproof system to meet anybody launching nuclear missile at India?

The foolproof system is guaranted destruction of the nation launching a nuclear missile at India.
you are right. in israel too irondome failed to stop 2 missiles which eventually hit tel aviv.
also the hamas missiles are nothing but rockets which cant maneuver and hence its like hitting a known projectile with completely known trajectory. in total 1500 rockets were fired over to israel(as per IDF) and of them 421 were intercepted. rest went straight into israel. israel says that few hit targets because of malfunctioning of irondome( reason for hitting of tel aviv by the fazr-5) and because they saved money from intercepting missiles destined for inhabited places.

but in india one can hardly find inhabited place and any malfunctioning will bring lots of destruction on ground.

the best thing is to go on with domestic development of 2 tier BMD and if goi wish then they can go for small no of irondome for sensitive locations.
indian bmd failed only once till now in tests and that too because the incoming missile fell into the sea making interceptor go self destruct. this means about 87.5% accuracy- far more than irondome 80%.

though we can also praise irondome for being cheap because these 421 interception cost israel 30 million dollars only. this mean every missile they intercepted they spent about 35 lakh rupees which in comparison to our AAD and PAD is way cheaper
 

Defcon 1

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BEL inks MoU with IAI on LR-SAM

Bharat Electronics Limited India (BEL) signed an MoU with Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI) for cooperation on future Long Range Surface to Air Missile (LRSAM) Ship-Defence Systems.

A Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) was signed on December 5th 2012 between Bharat Electronics Limited India (BEL) and Israel Aerospace Industries Ltd. (IAI) Israel, concerning their cooperation on future LRSAM ship-defence system projects.

The signing ceremony was conducted at IAI with participation of BEL's Director Marketing, Mr. H.N. Ramakrishna, IAI's President & CEO, Mr. Joseph Weiss, Mr. Eli Alfassi, Corporate VP India Operations, and other representatives. Mr. Boaz Levy, Director General of IAI's Air & Missile Defense Systems division and Mr. Ramakrishna signed the MoU on behalf of IAI and BEL respectively.

For several years IAI has been engaged in joint development programs with the DRDO and Indian defense industries for the Indian Navy and Indian Air Force, including joint manufacturing of sub-systems.

The MoU lays out framework for BEL-IAI cooperation, under which BEL will function as the Lead Integrator and produce major sub-systems. IAI will continue to act as Design Authority and to produce sub-systems as a main sub-contractor of BEL.

Mr. Ramakrishna, Director Marketing of BEL, said: "We see IAI as a strategic partner with a wide range of potential joint activities. This MoU demonstrates that BEL and IAI can work closely together on the most sophisticated and advanced programs, for the mutual benefit of both companies." Mr. Ramakrishna added: "We will continue to operate under the active support and guidance of the DRDO."

Mr. Weiss, President and CEO of IAI, said: "This MoU is a significant step forward in our joint work with India. Partnership with BEL will further enhance IAI's ability to provide high quality solutions and service to Indian defense services, best supporting the needs of India. BEL is a strategic partner for IAI, and we hope this cooperation will expand to other areas of mutual interest."

Tarmak007 -- A bold blog on Indian defence: BEL inks MoU with IAI on LR-SAM
 

shuvo@y2k10

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iron dome is a good system but it is very costlly even though statistically speaking 90% of indian casualties in kargil war was due to arty fire which could have been prevented if we had iron dome or smerch mbrl targetting paki missile baterries and ammunition posts.
 

arnabmit

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isnt IronDome+David'sSling supposed to work in tandem with AAD+PAD?

ID+DS for supersonic missiles
AAD+PAD for subsonic cruise missiles

iron dome is a good system but it is very costlly even though statistically speaking 90% of indian casualties in kargil war was due to arty fire which could have been prevented if we had iron dome or smerch mbrl targetting paki missile baterries and ammunition posts.
 

W.G.Ewald

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^^
Is that IA truck mounted ZU-23-2? Does IA have Shilka (radar-guided ZU-23-4)?
 

DivineHeretic

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Yes,though india uses the tsunga radar guided close-in air defence system to protect its corps on the move
 

Defcon 1

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iron dome is a good system but it is very costlly even though statistically speaking 90% of indian casualties in kargil war was due to arty fire which could have been prevented if we had iron dome or smerch mbrl targetting paki missile baterries and ammunition posts.
Iron dome is a air defence system, it cannot be used to target missile batteries. How do you know 90% of the casualties during the kargil war were caused by artillery fire?
 

Kunal Biswas

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It is designed to target both missiles and shells, Iron dome is a part of Air/Missile defense of Israel..

70-80% of casualty is caused by arty fire on both sides, Kargil was also the war of dual of arty guns..

Iron dome is a air defence system, it cannot be used to target missile batteries. How do you know 90% of the casualties during the kargil war were caused by artillery fire?
 
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sayareakd

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kunal sir can this be done ?

OFB makes AK 630 on licence.
Ordnance Factory Board

I think we can use this gun for anti cruise missile role for securing important buildings and airfields.

For airfield defence from cruise missile it would be better if we put this gun on sides of airfield on mobile towers type of structure, with the fire power it can take out cruise missile at ease. Plus it can take out enemy fighters if need be.

on emergency duty, they can also use something like





for protection of BMD assets or other important locations.
 

DivineHeretic

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The artillary rounds are known to have about three times the speed of sound which is much faster than most cruise missiles,and these are intercepted fairly efficiently by the Iron dome
Therefore assuming that a missile does not change path during its final descent,i iron dome shoild be able to intercept it.
The targetting radar shuld find it easier to track and guide a missile to a subsonic, large CM if it can track a much smaller artillery round IMHO
 

Kunal Biswas

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kunal sir can this be done ?
Yes sure, But AK-630 radar is not with the system, to do so one may need another vehicle for radar purpose & OFB will need special permission from Russians..

Imho, One may buy an improved system, there are few >>



Ground based, Electro-optical and may be with radar..

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Raytheon's Land-based Phalanx Weapon Systems (LPWS), 360degree fire, Operational in A-stan shooting down motar and arty shells

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Pantsir-S1, not a CIWS but good against Cruise missiles at low altitude..
 

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