Indian Woman for Combat Duties

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Razor

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Oops, I did hit a raw nerve!!

The connect between AIT and being homo-phobic is linked very well to British era laws and legacy.

There is nothing wrong with being Russian fanboy but it becomes a problem when people want to draw policy conclusions forgetting their true loyalty to India. @spikey360 - wanted to commit India to the mad-house of Syria when Turkey shot down Russian plane.

Sorry, I will continue to burst this echo-chamber.
No idea what raw nerve you are talking about by connecting two unrelated issues using British era laws(which by the way, I have yet checked up on.) You do have vivid imagination.

As for AIT, I know you are trying hard to derail this thread and hide behind that, but I will tell you that I would have read all the data posted and I would have continued that discussion on that thread, if it weren't for the pimping-fetish guy, with whom it is not possible to have a reasonable discussion.

"draw policy conslusion", "true loyalty to india": Can you tell me which policy conclusion I "drew" that questions "true loyalty to India"
I think this is your thing, isn't it? Accusing people who don't agree with your views (read non-US fanboy views) of being anti-india. You should come up with better ways to express your ideas.
 

Bornubus

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Last week a female Israeli soldier, Hadar (meaning, roughly, “Splendor,” or “Glory,”) Cohen, was killed in the course of duty. Two months into the Israel Defense Force, just two days after she had completed her basic training and taken the military oath of allegiance, she found herself standing guard at Old Jerusalem’s Damascus Gate. With her were another female soldier and some male comrades. Three terrorists (some would call them Palestinian freedom fighters) armed with knives, submachine guns which they concealed under their coats emerged. One terrorist stabbed and was able to wound the other female soldier before Hadar gunned him down, probably saving her comrade’s life. Thereupon a second terrorist turned on her and stabbed her to death before he and the third terrorist present were “wasted”—this is standard language—by her fellow soldiers. She was nineteen years old.

I did not know Hadar personally. Ere she was killed, I had never heard of her. By all accounts. she was what her name proclaimed her to be: namely, a splendid young woman with her entire future in front of her. Idealistic and determined to prove herself by serving her country as best she could, she volunteered to do a man’s job; i.e was trained to become what both the IDF and the media call a lohemet, meaning either “fighter” or “warrior.”

But do not allow yourself to be misled. The term does not mean she went through anything like a full infantryman’s course. No Israeli woman does, and of those who tried to do so on a more or less experimental basis many have been injured, some of them very badly. All it means is that she was taught how to use her weapon, apparently a shortened version of the M-16 rifle (the real thing would have been too long for her to operate efficiently), and put into a bulletproof vest. So equipped, she was made to stand guard at what is currently one of the most dangerous spots in Israel; dangerous in the sense that, over the last few weeks, it has been the scene of several more or less similar attacks.

Even in Israel, the only country in history which (to its shame, some would say) has conscripted women into its military, a dead or injured female soldier is no ordinary event. That explains the media circus that has been going on around the deceased girl. Hadar’s own funeral was attended by the minister of home security. Accompanied by his retinue, the Chief of Staff, Lieutenant General Eisenkot, came to visit the female injured soldier in hospital and saluted her in front of the cameras. Not to be outdone Prime Minister Netanyahu, normally not the most sensitive of men, did the same. Had the dead and injured soldiers been male, almost certainly none of them would have bothered. All three may have felt that there was something deeply wrong, morally speaking, in making Hadar stand guard as she did. Or else, which in Netanyahu’s case seems more likely, that doing so would provide yet another photo-op.

Ultimately the reason why there is something deeply wrong with having women guard men and sacrifice themselves for them, instead of the other way around, is rooted in our mammalian biology. As everyone knows, the mammalian female’s investment in conceiving the young, bearing them, and bringing them into the world is huge. Not so that of the male who takes just a few minutes to do what has to be done and withdraws. Females can only have so and so many offspring during their lifetime; for males, so large is the number as to be practically unlimited.

The mathematics of reproduction explain why, among many mammalian species, the lives of males count for much less than those of females. When there is a threat it is the males which defend the females, never the other way around. Among us humans, the dangers surrounding delivery—at one time, one woman in four used to die in or soon after childbirth—provide another reason why women should not be heedlessly sacrificed. Briefly, nature itself has made women the indispensable sex. Compared with men, in any society they are a biological treasure and must be preserved. Even if doing so costs the lives of men.

Elementary, my dear Watson, Sherlock Holmes would have said. Yet the members of that peculiar species, modern feminists, seem unable to grasp even the most elementary biological facts. Half a century after Betty Friedan raised the standard of revolt, their real motives in claiming the kind of equality that cost Hadar her life remain no less mysterious than the famous feminist mystique itself. Unless, of course, Freud was right and penis envy makes the world go round.

Poor Hadar. I am aware that some people on the other side would say that she got just what she deserved. Be that as it may, and putting politics aside, all she herself wanted was to “contribute” to her country. But apparently she could find no better way to do so than to do what men normally do and what nature, by giving them stronger bodies, has made them more fit to do. Now she is dead, and my heart goes out to her and her family. Yet I cannot help wondering whether, by getting married, giving birth to a couple of children, and raising them properly as a mother should her contribution would not have been greater than it was.

May her soul rest in peace.

http://www.martin-van-creveld.com/?p=542
Unrelated.Israel is a security state which lack manpower,military service is mandatory in Israel.

Secondly the geography and nature of conflict is different in Israel and India, Indian soldiers serves in desert to frozen glaciers, the training regime is hard.

If females compete males in physical efficiency test i have no problem seeing them in combat roles.
 

Sakal Gharelu Ustad

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No idea what raw nerve you are talking about by connecting two unrelated issues using British era laws(which by the way, I have yet checked up on.) You do have vivid imagination.

As for AIT, I know you are trying hard to derail this thread and hide behind that, but I will tell you that I would have continued that discussion on that thread, if it weren't for the pimping-fetish guy with whom it is not possible to have a reasonable discussion.

"draw policy conslusion", "true loyalty to india": Can you tell me which policy conclusion I "drew" that questions "true loyalty to India"
I think this is your thing, isn't it? Accusing people who don't agree with your views (read non-US fanboy views) of being anti-india. You should come up with better ways to express your ideas.
I quoted @spikey360 and not you who wanted to join the Syrian war on Russian side.

Ohh yeah..I am such a US-fanboy because I don't give in to shenanigans of Russian fanboys. Also, just to remind- it is you who brought the personal beliefs on this thread.

I do not have to bolster my credentials on giving issue based support- especially not from a Russian fanboy. This thread being prime example of not blindly copying western liberalism. Anyway, you won't get it!
 

Razor

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...........................................
Again man,

Intelligence agencIES =/= IB. It includes many more.
I'm not saying Army isn't important but that the crucial aspect of maintaining security and stability is the work of "intelligence"
This work of intelligence is the prevention aspect, the army etc is the cure.
 

Nuvneet Kundu

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Are these all-women units or mixed units?
There are some mixed units. The girls use small arms and call in the guys with vehicle mounted weapons for higher caliber backup fire. They even bury their own dead martyrs. There is total social cohesion. I don't know how they handle the problem of netfilx and chill as @alphacentury mentioned :)


You are not being very nice to @Razor and @spikey360.

Not everyone who wants India to get involved in Syria is a fanboy of another power. I hate both Russia and USA but I think we should get involved in foreign conflicts for the sole purpose of cultivating bargaining chips. Russia got involved in Syria to create a bargaining chip to use against US to get them to ease the pressure in Ukraine. Similarly we should consider Yemen, Syria and all conflicts from the point of view of our own interests. Today the US dictates a lot of things to us and we can't shrug them off because we have no leverage. We can't become a superpower by staying in our cocoon. We need to intervene in international events to create leverages which can be used to squeeze concessions out of other powers. It has nothing to do with having an emotional attachment with Russia or Syria or USA. We need to get involved in international affairs and be an obstructionist power. Pro-Russia and Pro-USA are not the only two binary choices. The moment India has its own players in the region, we will have to be called to the negotiating table by all powers. We can use our involvement in international affairs table to become indispensable to other powers. This can be used as a bargaining chip for getting other things.

Right now, Iran is playing that part despite having been under sanctions for so many years. We just sit and complain that things aren't going our way.
 

Sakal Gharelu Ustad

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There are some mixed units. The girls use small arms and call in the guys with vehicle mounted weapons for higher caliber backup fire. They even bury their own dead martyrs. There is total social cohesion. I don't know how they handle the problem of netfilx and chill as @alphacentury mentioned :)


You are not being very nice to @Razor and @spikey360.

Not everyone who wants India to get involved in Syria is a fanboy of another power. I hate both Russia and USA but I think we should get involved in foreign conflicts for the sole purpose of cultivating bargaining chips. Russia got involved in Syria to create a bargaining chip to use against US to get them to ease the pressure in Ukraine. Similarly we should consider Yemen, Syria and all conflicts from the point of view of our own interests. Today the US dictates a lot of things to us and we can't shrug them off because we have no leverage. We can't become a superpower by staying in our cocoon. We need to intervene in international events to create leverages which can be used to squeeze concessions out of other powers. It has nothing to do with having an emotional attachment with Russia or Syria or USA. We need to get involved in international affairs and be an obstructionist power. Pro-Russia and Pro-USA are not the only two binary choices. The moment India has its own players in the region, we will have to be called to the negotiating table by all powers. We can use our involvement in international affairs table to become indispensable to other powers. This can be used as a bargaining chip for getting other things.

Right now, Iran is playing that part despite having been under sanctions for so many years. We just sit and complain that things aren't going our way.
You too are anti-US in most issues but did I use kind words for you? You use your brain half of the times rather than regurgitating Russian position on most issues. Also, it was not me who brought personal beliefs on this thread.

Yes. India needs to be interventionist but the theatre of operation is debatable. While Russia and US have their own reasons to be in Syria, there are hardly any for India. Mindless interventionism does not help either. Afghanistan intervention would make some sense but as debated on other thread, most people argued even that to be a big gamble in terms of benefits.

And btw, it is RT documentary, so take it conclusions with a big sack of salt.
 

Nuvneet Kundu

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You too are anti-US in most issues but did I use kind words for you? You use your brain half of the times rather than regurgitating Russian position on most issues. Also, it was not me who brought personal beliefs on this thread.

Yes. India needs to be interventionist but the theatre of operation is debatable. While Russia and US have their own reasons to be in Syria, there are hardly any for India. Mindless interventionism does not help either. Afghanistan intervention would make some sense but as debated on other thread, most people argued even that to be a big gamble in terms of benefits.

And btw, it is RT documentary, so take it conclusions with a big sack of salt.
There are a total of 10 proper documentaries on the Kurdish Peshmerga, I also gave a link to BBC documentary in my previous comment. The point is, these women are fighting. They are not a ceremonial unit. You can put their name in Youtube and you can find 'warleaks' type of videos where these women are seen taking part in combat, even firing mortars.

I didn't recommend sending of Indian uniformed personnel. I said 'the moment India has its own players in the region' alluding to the fact that we can buy some rebel militia groups. At the very least, we get to use them to terminate the Indians who are travelling there or those groups which might be preparing to strike India. I do think that this is happening. Otherwise there was no way for Doval to bring home those Mallu nurses stuck in ISIS territory without leverage. Indian intel agencies might already be involved. It's not mindless intervention. Iraq was supplying cheap oil, Saddam kept the sunnis in control, it served our purpose, US invaded and fucked up our strategic calculus, now the stateless sunnis there are free to participate in extra curricular activities which might be against our interests. The situation with Syria is exactly the same. Syria supplies oil to us, they keep their people pacified and if this regime is toppled, it will release more stateless sunnis like a swarm of honey bees and put our security at risk. The Syrian foreign minister recently visited India and asserted that if India supports their regime, they will be on the good side of India once the instability settles down. But if another secular leader is gone, then we have more troubles. Note that in the context of the Middle East, 'secular' for us means a brutal shia who keeps sunnis under his toes.
 

Screambowl

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arre bc ..jo already officers hai , unko bolo terrorists ko pyar se na marey..

rahi baat collateral damage ki... well they have to change their policy. or maro salo ko..

I will get really furious if any woman officer get martyred due to this minimum collateral damage BS policy. The money they later give to martyrs , must be given to people who face collateral damage.

By this there will be no more young officers losing their life like we had in the last few months.
 

spikey360

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I have a proposition for Prez and GoI. Replace all commandos in bodyguard duty with females. Also make the parliament fully manned oh, wo-manned with girls having insas. Should be equal secure if not more secure, yes?

This decision is a shame to the manhood of all men in the government.
 

Razor

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There are some mixed units. The girls use small arms and call in the guys with vehicle mounted weapons for higher caliber backup fire. They even bury their own dead martyrs. There is total social cohesion. I don't know how they handle the problem of netfilx and chill as @alphacentury mentioned :)


You are not being very nice to @Razor and @spikey360.

Not everyone who wants India to get involved in Syria is a fanboy of another power. I hate both Russia and USA but I think we should get involved in foreign conflicts for the sole purpose of cultivating bargaining chips. Russia got involved in Syria to create a bargaining chip to use against US to get them to ease the pressure in Ukraine. Similarly we should consider Yemen, Syria and all conflicts from the point of view of our own interests. Today the US dictates a lot of things to us and we can't shrug them off because we have no leverage. We can't become a superpower by staying in our cocoon. We need to intervene in international events to create leverages which can be used to squeeze concessions out of other powers. It has nothing to do with having an emotional attachment with Russia or Syria or USA. We need to get involved in international affairs and be an obstructionist power. Pro-Russia and Pro-USA are not the only two binary choices. The moment India has its own players in the region, we will have to be called to the negotiating table by all powers. We can use our involvement in international affairs table to become indispensable to other powers. This can be used as a bargaining chip for getting other things.

Right now, Iran is playing that part despite having been under sanctions for so many years. We just sit and complain that things aren't going our way.
There was a thread around here, or maybe it was an OT in a thread, where people debating involvement in syrian war. I made some points about the advantages (some of them relating to the leverage you are talking about) and disadvantages.
A more pressing concern for India is Afg where india should be able to mitigate its concerns effectively.
These are things indian govt needs to make decisions about rather than sitting around and wasting time on some jnu/jdu/or-whatever-it-is BS, which should ve been handled by intel agencies using pro-govt media. But questions that need to be asked are how effective the govt is and how well-rounded the foreign policy; when and how the "opposition" will stab; how about the pro-western fifth column, how will they be liquidated? This is why we have that "sit and complain" part.
 
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Sakal Gharelu Ustad

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If you watch global news daily..... headings about India

Indian women assaulted
Indian women Raped
Indian women Gang-raped
Indian women Gang-raped&Paraded
Indian women Gang-raped,Paraded&killed
Indian women Gang-raped,Paraded,killed&mutilated and so on.

How many rapes/gang rapes in their respective countries their prime goal is to demoralize INDIAN MEN/WOMEN&CULTURE and our Secular,Presstitutes&Muzzies are ready to demean country in any means.

So either a mute spectator or say(top brass) we are too fighting against gender violence,Indian women also capable in wars etc.This is just ceremonial process.Except Israel like extreme cases in all so-called first world countries women average in army is 8% :p.

So we don't have a choice except keep quiet and recruit 3 -4% women in armed forces (It will remain a ceremonial process).
I hope it remains ceremonial. But this is still giving in to the propaganda and facilitating the march of uber-feminism.

Even in the best case scenario you mentioned, it is still a defeat against western propaganda.
 

Razor

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If you see the global news daily..... headings about India

Indian women assaulted
Indian women Raped
Indian women Gang-raped
Indian women Gang-raped&Paraded
Indian women Gang-raped,Paraded&killed
Indian women Gang-raped,Paraded,killed&mutilated and so on.

How many rapes/gang rapes in their respective countries their prime goal is to demoralize INDIAN MEN/WOMEN&CULTURE and our Seculars,Presstitutes&Muzzies are ready to demean country in any means.

So either a mute spectator or say(top brass) we are too fighting against gender violence,Indian women are also capable in wars etc.This is just ceremonial process.Except Israel like extreme cases in all so-called first world countries women average in army is 8% :p.

So we don't have a choice except keep quiet and recruit 3 -4% women in armed forces (It will remain a ceremonial process).
Reminds me of the story of the guy who gave an inch of the tent to the camel's nose; soon he was kicked out of the tent.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camel's_nose
 

abingdonboy

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100% this is BS- there is no way the IA is opening up the infantry/armoured corps, arty etc to women- combat postings perhaps (ie in Kashmir or NE) but not actual combat.

The IN will take women on warships- which is classed as a combat deployment by them and women fighter pilots (ie combatants) will be inducted but the IA's "boots on the ground" will be 100% men for the forseeable future.
 

Bahamut

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No one pointed out the effect of logistic it will have .We have to give them separate rooms.In long petrol ,the chances of sexual assault or falsification of incident increase.I think that non combat role are fine enough in army.Plus what happens if they are captured ? And also in north where people are stuck in 6 month in a post ,I don't think it is a good idea to keep both men and women in same area.I do not think think the armed forces are ready for it .
 

spikey360

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Sakal, I thought you would be happy about this considering your western-type neo-liberal agenda. No???
@spikey360
Another brainless move. Women are given lower requirements for qualification.
Also studies have proven that presence of women among male soldiers lowers the camaraderie among soldiers which is important in battle. Studies have also shown that presence of female soldiers triggers protectiveness among male soldiers during battle which leads to latter disobeying orders and affecting the outcome of battles. These studies were done in western militaries.
Absolutely true. We were debating this exact point some months ago. Only those who desire ill of the nation can approve and support such idiotic and dangerous policies. Most of us here including Sakal, agree.
 
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pmaitra

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As a matter of fact there is an overabundance of men in india.
PS: @pmaitra this also applies to the kurd situation you mentioned earlier. All out war implies use all resources.
I agree with you. When we look at the situation of the Kurds, they have no choice but to mobilize all their people of fighting age.
 
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pmaitra

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Bhai, all those Israeli and Kurish women are usually for photo-ops. Female maoists are there to satisfy the sexual urges of comrades and win new combatants by offering them.

Question is- how many pitched battles these women have fought?
Actually, females have fought many pitched battles and done better than men in many situations. Those Israeli and Kurdish women are certainly not photo ops. One might argue that women are not able to perform hard physical duties, but this one differentiating factor between men and women has diminished, given that fighting a war these days is done with rifles, and is not the same thing as a wrestling match.

Just like Kurds, and Israelis, female Maoists actually fight. Many people talk about Maoists/Naxalites without having a clue. Time to stop reading RSS Gospels? :cool3:
 

pmaitra

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of course the bong @pmaitra will support retardation, kurdish women basically do sentry/mortar duty never on frontlines.

Women better serve the war effort BY HAVING BABIES!
Ah, you opened another handle?

What retardation do you think I support? Can you please elaborate?
 
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