Indian Woman for Combat Duties

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lcafanboy

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IAF should form the entire suadron with woman fighter pilots and name this Squadron as FLYING CHICKS. :biggrin2::biggrin2:
 

Brood Father

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IAF should form the entire suadron with woman fighter pilots and name this Squadron as FLYING CHICKS. :biggrin2::biggrin2:
Not sure why you are so against women flying aircraft and its a matter of a joke to you
You do realise that it is a indian forum where international visit daily and then to them its quite evident that we as Indian is a misogynist country , so kudos to you you are doing great service to your nation
Coming to the point , I believe that India should have taken this step earlier becuase the ability irrespective of gender depends on ones personal traits and expertise , the sooner we realise it the much better
 

Illusive

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really i do NOT support the idea of women in combat roles even though as the longer time members would know that i am a feminist and staunch supporter of women's rights as equals - yes we are equal with men but not identical

so i agree with you that women cant take high G which is obviously required as a fighter pilot but also neither do it support women's role in tanks nor indeed in ANY combat role
I am pretty sure they can, considering women astronauts and also I watch F1 which has a maximum of 8g's on the some tracks with high speed corners and a regular 5g's under braking. Now there are women racers too in F1, not regular but they, from what i've seen, can perform. Now in a aircraft its much higher, a well built woman can be able to pull that off with proper training.

Although their natural bodily function may be limiting factor for them sometimes, but i am sure science is or will be able to deal with that problem for those willing.

I personally support such move, not for combat right of now but as a groundwork being laid for future generation.
 

Mad Indian

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Not sure why you are so against women flying aircraft and its a matter of a joke to you
You do realise that it is a indian forum where international visit daily and then to them its quite evident that we as Indian is a misogynist country , so kudos to you you are doing great service to your nation
Coming to the point , I believe that India should have taken this step earlier becuase the ability irrespective of gender depends on ones personal traits and expertise , the sooner we realise it the much better
Did you graduate from "gender is a social construct" school of feminism?

Really, Explain why a non misogynist country like USA has only 4% women in combat duty? I know , "patriarchy" right? :lol:
 
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Illusive

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BTW, ten years down the line, when women can't compete with men here on same standards as men, you will hear fembots asking for lowering of military standards for women. Mark my words
After that, survival of the fittest would kick in and these feminazis would be put to sleep once again.

The problem is in understanding of our species and not in gender. If you look at other species of animals, females dominates, either due to their size or for due their reproductive skills.

We try to change because society is evolving, but we have reached this level because we broke the barriers to next level through sheer hard work and countless sacrifices. Adaptation, survival and domination through intelligence and strength. The day we lower our standards is the day start the decline of humans altogether as the decay will set in.

If women want a role equal, they should do it, not ask or beg. Compete against men or loose and for that they would have to shed their size zero figures and build themselves up.

The problem is, both men and women won't like this.
 

Mad Indian

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The problem is in understanding of our species and not in gender. If you look at other species of animals, females dominates, either due to their size or for due their reproductive skills
Not really, all testosterone driven species have males dominating their versions of the society. Lion, tiger, dogs, wolfs, apes, monkeys etc etc etc

We try to change because society is evolving, but we have reached this level because we broke the barriers to next level through sheer hard work and countless sacrifices. Adaptation, survival and domination through intelligence and strength. The day we lower our standards is the day start the decline of humans altogether as the decay will set in.

If women want a role equal, they should do it, not ask or beg. Compete against men or loose and for that they would have to shed their size zero figures and build themselves up.

The problem is, both men and women won't like this.
I am not sure what you are trying to say here ,but just to be clear, I don't oppose this move to allow women. But I am not in favor of encouraging it and in fact would prefer discouraging it.
 

Illusive

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Not really, all testosterone driven species have males dominating their versions of the society. Lion, tiger, dogs, wolfs, apes, monkeys etc etc etc
I was taking more of arthropods like ants and some spider species.

[/QUOTE]I am not sure what you are trying to say here ,but just to be clear, I don't oppose this move to allow women. But I am not in favor of encouraging it and in fact would prefer discouraging it.[/QUOTE]

I understood your viewpoint, which had little societal bias, and understandable, even I have that. I was just adding more on that. I personally am indifferent. If they can, they should, i only say don't beg or ask for equal treatment. It should always be merit based selection, so if they qualify they will get it.
 

Mad Indian

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I was taking more of arthropods like ants and some spider species
Not valid comparison.

I understood your viewpoint, which had little societal bias, and understandable, even I have that. I was just adding more on that. I personally am indifferent. If they can, they should, i only say don't beg or ask for equal treatment. It should always be merit based selection, so if they qualify they will get it.
Its not societal bias- its just the way nature works. A society with 400 men and 1000 women is far more likely to proper than a society with 1000men and 400 women, all other things being equal.

Of course, if we can invent an artificial womb, then we can go all in on all kinds of equality. Till then, gender roles have a very real basis and very important role to play. this is why, women in army should be discouraged on a social level, atleast till artificial womb is invented
 

Illusive

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Not valid comparison.
I'd ask why not but we are offtopic now.


Its not societal bias- its just the way nature works. A society with 400 men and 1000 women is far more likely to proper than a society with 1000men and 400 women, all other things being equal.

Of course, if we can invent an artificial womb, then we can go all in on all kinds of equality. Till then, gender roles have a very real basis and very important role to play. this is why, women in army should be discouraged on a social level, atleast till artificial womb is invented
I think they can already remove their eggs and store it in cryo.
 

Mad Indian

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I'd ask why not but we are offtopic now.
Because the difference in men and women is mostly due to testosterone and comparing human gender roles with that of insects which lack them is stupid beyond belief.

I think they can already remove their eggs and store it in cryo.
So what? You still need a womb to grow it into a full baby.
 

Illusive

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Because the difference in men and women is mostly due to testosterone and comparing human gender roles with that of insects which lack them is stupid beyond belief.
:facepalm: My point was females in other species have dominant role, due to their biological and evolutionary superiority over its male counterparts, that's it.

So what? You still need a womb to grow it into a full baby.
Google how babies are born out of egg freezing technique. It new.
http://uscfertility.org/egg-freezing-faqs/
 

jackprince

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I am opposed to the idea purely from the POV of economics. Most of the woman fighter pilots will choose to marry and have children, that would be crores of rupees down the drain. The same resources can be utilised towards training male pilots who will be contractually obligated to serve the mandatory service period and when the same can be said about the female ones, IAF cannot prevent them from getting married or having children. A fighter pilot also needs to be at the peak of physical fitness, unlike a transport or chopper pilot, which the female pilots will not be able to keep soon after the child birth. Which means if a female fighter pilot gets pregnant, IAF loses a pilot for at least 1.5 years.

I don't have any problem with a female soldier as long as she can pull her wait, but a fighter pilot is a different ball game where extensive training which costs huge money is involved.

:facepalm: My point was females in other species have dominant role, due to their biological and evolutionary superiority over its male counterparts, that's it.
The other animal species cannot read, write and wield thousands of tons weapons. Neither ALL other species have the dominant roles.


Google how babies are born out of egg freezing technique. It new.
http://uscfertility.org/egg-freezing-faqs/
And you want IAF to put that in contract? Do you even have any idea how many potential hell will break lose by the feminist liberal media and champagne sipping intelligentsia?

How many of the officers will actually be ready to honor that agreement they made in their youth once they get married? How many lawsuits will there be in courts seeking relaxation when they will show it as gender discrimination?
 
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Chinmoy

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Let it rest guys..... Otherwise all of us are going to be booked under some sort by some sort of Mahila Samiti or Sangathan lately.:rofl:
 

Nicky G

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Silly decision. Any potential PR gains are hilariously outweighed by inevitable downsides. Moreover, entirely unwarranted at this time. First, we must bring the standards of existing forces to meet the threats.

Not sure why you are so against women flying aircraft and its a matter of a joke to you
You do realise that it is a indian forum where international visit daily and then to them its quite evident that we as Indian is a misogynist country , so kudos to you you are doing great service to your nation
Coming to the point , I believe that India should have taken this step earlier becuase the ability irrespective of gender depends on ones personal traits and expertise , the sooner we realise it the much better
Armed forces for a poor country such as India are to defend the nation in a hostile neighborhood, not assuage the fragile egos of Indians who derive pride from what the rest of world thinks of them on such silly issues.

Go look up facts and studies on what has happened to standards of western forces which have had this imposed on them. US, UK etc. have had to lower standards to induct the desired quota of women.
 

Mad Indian

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Google how babies are born out of egg freezing technique. It new.
http://uscfertility.org/egg-freezing-faqs/
This is another one of the times, the geniuses here in DFI try to teach a doctor medicine:rolleyes:

Dude, there is no artificial womb. What the article is talking about is taking the egg and storing it for later use, say at the age of 40/50 instead of having to give birth at say 25. You still need a womb from a woman, the same donar or someone else to implant the said egg for it to grow after fertilisation. What do you think embryo transfer refers to? To kitchen sink? No. It is transfered to the womb(uterus), after 2 days of fertilisation at the morula stage of the embryo(most usually)

and of course, I was talking about the supply side of wombs and not the eggs when I said we need the artificial wombs for achieving the Theoretical equality you are all suggesting here


The other animal species cannot read, write and wield thousands of tons weapons. Neither ALL other species have the dominant roles.
Exactly what I meant. We have to compare like with like. Black widows kill their mates after mating, We should perhaps take it as an epitome female behavior on Humans as well:rolleyes:
 

Abhijat

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Navy, MoD move Supreme Court against permanent commission for women
- See more at: http://indianexpress.com/article/in...nt-commission-for-women/#sthash.6hPMNCwK.dpuf

Ask apex court to stay HC order, say it ‘severely affects operational structure and administrative exigencies in Navy’

Even as it claimed that women officers in the Indian Navy are not discriminated against, the government has told the Supreme Court that permanent commission for women short service commission (SSC) officers is “something that the law itself bars” and such an order would “annihilate the functional autonomy of the armed forces”.

Challenging the order of the Delhi High Court, which said on September 4 that women officers in the Navy should be offered permanent commission after they complete their short service stints, the Ministry of Defence (MoD) and the Chief of Naval Staff have said that it violates the principle of “separation of powers” between different wings. The petition urges the Supreme Court to stay the HC order, saying it “severely affects the operational structure and administrative exigencies in the Indian Navy.”

Contending that “men and women are identified by the same yardsticks”, the appeal states that operation of the HC verdict would “result in disturbing the seniority of existing personnel and their promotional avenues”.

“It would further cause financial and other constraints on the government and has resulted in the respondents (women officers) being provided with something that the law itself bars… the division bench (of HC) has effectively overridden the statutory provision and dictated the policy of the Indian Navy for recruiting women officers,” it adds.
The Navy has maintained that it has not discriminated against women, and that no male officer in the same cadres, who were recruited under the SSC, was offered permanent commission.

The Navy has said that the HC nullified its policy without any cogent reason or basis and became a “decision-maker for the Indian Navy, which has consistently been avoided by constitutional courts.”

It has opposed the HC’s observation that since all the three services — Army, Navy and Air Force — are under the same ministry, they should not have different policies. “There are wide variations between the functions of all three services and each service is given the liberty to choose the policies conducive to meet service-specific standards,” says the petition.

Reacting to the development, women officers said it was a “betrayal” by the government. They said Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar had promised them that he would dissuade the Navy from filing an appeal.

“The Navy’s decision to appeal against the reinstatement of lady officers proves what the HC had stated… that the Indian government is proud to showcase women power but in reality, the picture is entirely different,” the officers told The Indian Express.

In its order last month, the HC had said that “sexist bias” appears to have “blocked the progress of women”. It had allowed a clutch of pleas filed by 19 women officers in the education, logistics and ATC branches of the Navy, who had completed the 14 years of their SSC.

The officers had also challenged a 2008 decision of the Navy to grant permanent commission only to women who joined after that year, and that too only in the education, law and naval architecture branches.

- See more at: http://indianexpress.com/article/in...nt-commission-for-women/#sthash.6hPMNCwK.dpuf
 

Illusive

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This is another one of the times, the geniuses here in DFI try to teach a doctor medicine:rolleyes:

Dude, there is no artificial womb. What the article is talking about is taking the egg and storing it for later use, say at the age of 40/50 instead of having to give birth at say 25. You still need a womb from a woman, the same donar or someone else to implant the said egg for it to grow after fertilisation. What do you think embryo transfer refers to? To kitchen sink? No. It is transfered to the womb(uterus), after 2 days of fertilisation at the morula stage of the embryo(most usually)

and of course, I was talking about the supply side of wombs and not the eggs when I said we need the artificial wombs for achieving the Theoretical equality you are all suggesting here
Ok doctor sahab, my suggestion was women can use this method after retirement. Lets say they store their eggs before service and after retirement fulfill their dreams of becoming a mother. This way no unwanted pregnancy during service.

Exactly what I meant. We have to compare like with like. Black widows kill their mates after mating, We should perhaps take it as an epitome female behavior on Humans as well:rolleyes:
They dont just kill, they eat it:shock:
 

Illusive

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And you want IAF to put that in contract? Do you even have any idea how many potential hell will break lose by the feminist liberal media and champagne sipping intelligentsia?

How many of the officers will actually be ready to honor that agreement they made in their youth once they get married? How many lawsuits will there be in courts seeking relaxation when they will show it as gender discrimination?
Armed forces is service before self, besides its a safety issue. In case women combatants are captured, they can avoid pregnancy if the captors use rape tactics.
 

Varahamihira

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This is a controversial subject.This may seem all well at the start but during the combat if women soldiers were caught all hell will break loose.You most probably will see Kejriwal doing a dharna in Delhi with all other pseudos to bring back our daughters.But the same dharnas won't happen in the same level for male soldiers.

But women can't be denied a combat role.It has to be decided what combat role they have to be given.Like in WWII Russian women were given sniping role and other logistics support.And they did kill a good number of the enemies.But at the end of the day we have to prepare for the worst.We are already seeing reports of officers are in less numbers than required.May be lady officers can take this place.

Ofcourse there should be no leniency in training,it's a matter of life and death.
 

roma

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I am opposed to the idea purely from the POV of economics. Most of the woman fighter pilots will choose to marry and have children, that would be crores of rupees down the drain. The same resources can be utilised towards training male pilots who will be contractually obligated to serve the mandatory service period and when the same can be said about the female ones, IAF cannot prevent them from getting married or having children. A fighter pilot also needs to be at the peak of physical fitness, unlike a transport or chopper pilot, which the female pilots will not be able to keep soon after the child birth. Which means if a female fighter pilot gets pregnant, IAF loses a pilot for at least 1.5 years.

I don't have any problem with a female soldier as long as she can pull her wait, but a fighter pilot is a different ball game where extensive training which costs huge money is involved.

The other animal species cannot read, write and wield thousands of tons weapons. Neither ALL other species have the dominant roles.

And you want IAF to put that in contract? Do you even have any idea how many potential hell will break lose by the feminist liberal media and champagne sipping intelligentsia?

How many of the officers will actually be ready to honor that agreement they made in their youth once they get married? How many lawsuits will there be in courts seeking relaxation when they will show it as gender discrimination?
wow this is a great thread and i have never give so many likes as in this one

especially @Mad Indian has written a lot of sense and is now off my ig list ! :hail:
<<<<<( sorry for putting you there to begin with )

I am pretty sure they can, considering women astronauts and also I watch F1 which has a maximum of 8g's on the some tracks with high speed corners and a regular 5g's under braking. Now there are women racers too in F1, not regular but they, from what i've seen, can perform. Now in a aircraft its much higher, a well built woman can be able to pull that off with proper training.

Although their natural bodily function may be limiting factor for them sometimes, but i am sure science is or will be able to deal with that problem for those willing.

I personally support such move, not for combat right of now but as a groundwork being laid for future generation.
facing high G's is an issue the medical folks are in a position to consider better .....but the main factors to consider in women playing a combat role is the GRAVE disruption it brings to family life .... eg in the case of a woman astronaut or would be vyomanaut, if the husband was nice guy the family could relocate to a city that makes it convenient for the woman, she would undergo training and come home tired , but she would not be facing hostile situations and combat scenarios where the chances of her getting hurt are rather high

as a vyomanaut - there is training , there are medical facilities nearby and it is a caring situation - so i think we have enough factors to see the difference and so to be a woman vyomanaut is substantially different than being a woman in a hostile combat situation constantly facing the probability and not just possibility of injury and much worse

add to all that the fact tat a woman vyomanaut would be a celebrity and any misdemeanor against her would e national news but not so for a down the ranks woman in the combat zone .or even a woman captain of which there might be many and being in combat situations it could be part of the "daily life " ??

BUT I DO HAVE A SOLUTION FOR ALL OF THIS

Firstly a woman can go for combat jobs including leadership and being fighter plot on the following conditions
(a) she has already had children and together with the jhusband have decided that they dont want any more
(b) the children are old enough that they dont need her around all the time
(c) the relationship with the husband now moves into a different zone - where it's more like friends r they are still passionate but can handle the separation
(d) a couple more areas pertaingin to their specific situation

then if she still wants - can go for it

but i think the goi when making decisions that involve every family as fundamentally as this and not just on cost issues - should go to the people - not necessarily referendum - but public debate over television and other media - to get their points of view too - as they are the ones who will be bearing the burden.


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