Indian Special Forces

Indrajit

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9 Para/SG/ and JAKLI/JAKRIF units are 90% in combat.
Intensity is a bit different now, in the 90's and 2000's there was much more contact. It's sporadic now, almost over the last decade. Americans and British units have been in much tougher conflict situation over the last two decades. Difficult to argue that they are not the ones with the most combat experience around as of now.
 

skunk works

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Intensity is a bit different now, in the 90's and 2000's there was much more contact. It's sporadic now, almost over the last decade. Americans and British units have been in much tougher conflict situation over the last two decades. Difficult to argue that they are not the ones with the most combat experience around as of now.
Type of combat is very different. They have air support, don't discriminate between targets and can air Strike a schoolbus with zero consequences.

This is why a lot of these ''operators" are running away from Ukraine, when they realize that here the enemy can shoot back with a 155mm round.
 

Tactical Doge

π•±π–”π–”π–‘π–˜ π–—π–šπ–˜π– 𝖆𝖓𝖉 π–†π–“π–Œπ–Šπ–‘π–˜ π–‹π–Šπ–†π–—
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They think Hindus are β€œdogs” and β€œanimals”. Literally. They are cursed people.
Any non-Muslim, for the matter
Remember what happened to the Sri Lankan Buddhist
This superiority complex precipitates well into their army
 

Fire and groove

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kinda funny how these aimchair exfarts here lecture military about 21st century moral conduct with a brain of 14 year rainbow haired teen on internet. shit happened during gwot.
bro it's war. don't be a cry baby.
that paklandi beheading was necessary. yeh koi game nahi ki bas good banna hai.
Another day, another moronic comment from an ignorant civilian putting down other civilians with his own "expertise" on the nature of war. For starters, war or not, war crimes and extra judicial killings don't serve any purpose and are in fact detrimental to that end. Standardizing executions of POWs and beheadings in turn means the enemy is going to do just the same to your MIA, and will be far more prone to fighting to death as opposed to surrendering. Then their's the psychological impact of condoning sadism wirhin a military unit, and the resultant risk of expansion.
 

Fire and groove

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Type of combat is very different. They have air support, don't discriminate between targets and can air Strike a schoolbus with zero consequences.

This is why a lot of these ''operators" are running away from Ukraine, when they realize that here the enemy can shoot back with a 155mm round.
Air support didn't do shit in the latter years of afghanistan half the time. If the weather didn't ground your CAS, then the evolving tactics of the taliban using overhead concealment, tunnels and cover made it redundant.
 

Kumaoni

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Indicative of a lack of combat experience. Even Paras in the north prefer the M4 to the Tar for combat Ops when given a choice, especially for urban fighting.
What’s your criticism of the Tar? Am genuinely interested.
 

abingdonboy

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What’s your criticism of the Tar? Am genuinely interested.
It’s fine for infantry (actually who it was designed for) but for SOFs it’s too bulky and the Tar-21 that MARCOs and Paras use (only Garuds had a bit of sense to get CTARs) have long protruding barrels that make them very awkward for CQB and things like VBSS. On the whole they are decent enough weapons but in this day and age modern SBRs are what specialist units should be running
 

Kumaoni

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It’s fine for infantry (actually who it was designed for) but for SOFs it’s too bulky and the Tar-21 that MARCOs and Paras use (only Garuds had a bit of sense to get CTARs) have long protruding barrels that make them very awkward for CQB and things like VBSS. On the whole they are decent enough weapons but in this day and age modern SBRs are what specialist units should be running
What’s your preferred rifle for SOF?
 

ALBY

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Yeah when u are fighting against humans not when u are fighting against animals
Only a miniscule percentage you fighting is animals and rest are just common man fighting for their causes which they believe to be true.If we look closer we could find such animals in small numbers among our lot too.If you were born on that side you too might join that side . Its all perspectives.One’s freedom fighter is another one’s terrorist.
 

ALBY

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It’s fine for infantry (actually who it was designed for) but for SOFs it’s too bulky and the Tar-21 that MARCOs and Paras use (only Garuds had a bit of sense to get CTARs) have long protruding barrels that make them very awkward for CQB and things like VBSS. On the whole they are decent enough weapons but in this day and age modern SBRs are what specialist units should be running
Even after doing countless cross training with foreign SFs they are selecting X-95s then there is either some serious shitty selection procedure or they are comfortable with the bullpup series .
Btw X-95s have only the length of SBRs
 

Kumaoni

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Only a miniscule percentage you fighting is animals and rest are just common man fighting for their causes which they believe to be true.If we look closer we could find such animals in small numbers among our lot too.If you were born on that side you too might join that side . Its all perspectives.One’s freedom fighter is another one’s terrorist.
Any examples of Indian civilian irregulars being trained to cross the LoC and behead civilians or kill soldiers from the back?
 

Dom the Dumb

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I have been thinking a lot about why Indian Special Forces aren't "special" and why they are super-infantry. Of course, I do consider the MARCOS to be SOF (not necessarily in the way that Delta or SAS are), but even they are not, in reality, all that special.

I may be wrong but I believe this is an issue of doctrine. India's entire approach to its military doctrine has been defensive. I believe this has been reflected in its Special Forces. The MARCOS's first operational deployment (if memory serves) was to keep the LTTE's "navy" at bay in Sri Lanka. Throughout their history, the Paras have served as raiders (even the 2016 strikes and the 2015 operation were raids, given just how many were involved in terms of numbers). The Garuds haven't really done anything of note yet and act as air base security in Kashmir. And they all operate in battlefields that are within reach of India's conventional forces (with the only exception being UN operations but I don't believe that counts).

Contrarily, NATO SOF (let's focus on the UK and US) operate on the arse-end of the world, typically far away from the full support of their conventional capabilities. Yes they are supported when on operation, by helicopters or maybe a gunship or two. But in contrast to, let us say 2016, if things went to shit, the Paras would have had overwhelming fire support from arty and regular infantry units. And, from what we know about the Garud and MARCOS ops, they have never operated outside of India (excluding MARCOS in Sri Lanka).

Now, I am not justifying the haphazard training of Paras (I mean, each battalion trains separately? What the actual fuck?), the unapparent need of the Garuds as an SOF, or the relative combat inexperience of the MARCOs. Neither am I justifying the extremely lacking kit standardisation of the ParaSF, which is at a level where they are now indistinguishable from an RR soldier, save for the fact that they carry M4s and Tavors.

I am saying that, to me, it makes sense why none of these units can be directly compared to the SAS or Delta or anything of the sort. They're just not the same, nor are they meant to be like them. I am not commenting on their individual or unit tactics, but rather the strategy behind their existence. MARCOS exist as a specialised VBSS force and gives the navy the capability to conduct raids if it needs to. The Paras are raiders, pure and simple, that can jump out of aircraft - this is what they excel at and I feel like, even for veteran battalions such as 9 Para, the SF moniker is unfit because they simply aren't SF. The Garuds honestly confuse me with their existence, apart from airbase security it's hard for me to see what they provide to the IAF. In regards to the Paras, the fact that (even after they were all converted to SF) they still conduct large scale airborne exercises should exemplify what the Indian Army thinks of them - super airborne infantry. The MARCOS being regularly used for VBSS instead of the Indian Navy's dedicated VBSS teams, is an indication of their perception among the Indian Admiralty.

This is because, in my understanding, the Indian Armed Froces believe they have no need for dedicated SOF. This thinking would not be new - the IA discontinued sniper courses in its infantry schools because it did not believe they were needed in an era of close quarter counter insurgency. The Paras may, at one point in history, have been dedicated SOF (I see no evidence in history for this, even the Chachro Raid was just that - a raid) but now, the operations they carry out aren't that different from RR or Ghataks. You won't see a platoon of Paras crossing into PoK, securing an HVT and getting them back to India without raising an alarm because that's just not what the unit's strategic requirements are anymore - nor is it required out of any unit in the Indian Armed Forces.

Sorry for the long and scatterbrained message. Please do let me know if I am wrong. These are just my thoughts
 

ALBY

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Any examples of Indian civilian irregulars being trained to cross the LoC and behead civilians or kill soldiers from the back?
Just google and you will find an example where allegedly ikhwans or SG or some RAW elements carried out such an attack in POK village .Iirc it was in revenge to that Ilyas Kashmiri beheaded our men or viceversa.It was around the time if massacres of Sikhs if inam correct.
 

Kumaoni

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Just google and you will find an example where allegedly ikhwans or SG or some RAW elements carried out such an attack in POK village .Iirc it was in revenge to that Ilyas Kashmiri beheaded our men or viceversa.It was around the time if massacres of Sikhs if inam correct.
All of this was retaliatory. How many more Wandhamas must happen? They started, we replied in kind.
 

jai jaganath

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Only a miniscule percentage you fighting is animals and rest are just common man fighting for their causes which they believe to be true.If we look closer we could find such animals in small numbers among our lot too.If you were born on that side you too might join that side . Its all perspectives.One’s freedom fighter is another one’s terrorist.
I just don't give damn to that feelings I am born this side and my life is for this side
There should be no feelings for them if they are animals we can easily transit to animals
And no the entire country is animal shithole with being burden on this earth and no value addition or contribution to world except creating problems and threat by producing terrorists
 

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