Indian Special Forces

abingdonboy

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2010
Messages
5,546
Likes
19,765
Country flag
How will CDS fix the issue that @thefewthefearless is talking about?

The army needs structural and organizational reforms. All of these "sahayak" and officer superiority practice has been inherited from the Brits and it needs to be changed.

Do you all remember all the RR that veterans did on tweeter when Mudi allowed JCO/NCO to take part in the army commander conference in 2021?

View attachment 157147
Every time you get a peak into the mindset of the IA’s officer Corps it gets more disturbing. They’ve taken all the worst and most rigid elements from British/colonial era and entrenched them. The IA today is more British than the British army by 20th century standards. Some of the bizarre traditions they still have that the British army did away with 40+ years ago

I have a suspicion that, like the British army found out fighting alongside the US army in Iraq and Afghanistan, there are far too many senior officers getting fat and adding little to operational effectiveness. US army’s strength is actually in their NCOs and this is even more true in SF- in a SF team (navy or army) the NCOs effectively run the unit with officers taking care of organisational and logistics
 

Waanar

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 4, 2019
Messages
2,710
Likes
16,959
Country flag
Every time you get a peak into the mindset of the IA’s officer Corps it gets more disturbing. They’ve taken all the worst and most rigid elements from British/colonial era and entrenched them. The IA today is more British than the British army by 20th century standards. Some of the bizarre traditions they still have that the British army did away with 40+ years ago

I have a suspicion that, like the British army found out fighting alongside the US army in Iraq and Afghanistan, there are far too many senior officers getting fat and adding little to operational effectiveness. US army’s strength is actually in their NCOs and this is even more true in SF- in a SF team (navy or army) the NCOs effectively run the unit with officers taking care of organisational and logistics
Which is also not the way.
The US soldiers HATE their officers for not actually participating in the kinetic parts of their operations. The officers risking their life and limb the same way a soldier would is the main reason why Indian Army has soldiers willing to die for their officers even when mistreated institutionally by the sahayak system.
 

EternalNxg

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2020
Messages
178
Likes
532
Country flag
Which is also not the way.
The US soldiers HATE their officers for not actually participating in the kinetic parts of their operations. The officers risking their life and limb the same way a soldier would is the main reason why Indian Army has soldiers willing to die for their officers even when mistreated institutionally by the sahayak system.
Once you hit major in the US ur a desk jockey from then on, no matter if your sof or not.
 

SKC

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2014
Messages
3,672
Likes
11,640
Country flag
Which is also not the way.
The US soldiers HATE their officers for not actually participating in the kinetic parts of their operations. The officers risking their life and limb the same way a soldier would is the main reason why Indian Army has soldiers willing to die for their officers even when mistreated institutionally by the sahayak system.
But this is how things work. You are with NCO and then can grow up to all big posts. They are evaluated at platoon level and once they join Desk job then the field work is pretty much over.

But here the non-commissioned Iawan can grow up to Subedar Major at best or unless they preform great in any sporting event they are then made honorable Major or something.
 

rkhanna

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2014
Messages
2,528
Likes
9,408
Country flag
Which is also not the way.
The US soldiers HATE their officers for not actually participating in the kinetic parts of their operations. The officers risking their life and limb the same way a soldier would is the main reason why Indian Army has soldiers willing to die for their officers even when mistreated institutionally by the sahayak system.
Once you hit major in the US ur a desk jockey from then on, no matter if your sof or not.

That is not entirely correct. USSF ODA's are lead by Majors and Col lead their squadron into combat. Same with Rangers and Airborne units

Delta is an exception where the base level to even apply for selection is sgt and is very NCO heavy. These NCO's are mainly coming from the 75th and their experience cannot be touched by Officers who are running selection for the most part. By the time an officer is of age/experience to try out for Delta they move on to other career ladder rungs. Officers in Delta lead C&C of teams primarily though there are plenty officers who lead combat arms - these are officers who have transitioned from SF.

Navy Seals tend to find more enlisted men join the unit than officers hence you find more NCO's leading their Team though squadrons are all run by officers including combat.

With US SOF units - institutional memory lies with the NonComs as Officers only do TOURS with the unit and then progress on to other departments within their Service. NCOs are lifers within the unit.

The distaste for Officers from the NCO comes because the officers have a long history of putting their careers above that of the unit / men. They also tend to play politics which doesnt go down well with knuckle draggers.

In India a MAIN difference is because of how our society is structured and due to cultural norms we have 'servitutde' ingrained in us based on cast, status, heirachy (both supply and demand) - you will find this in all aspect of society not just the military.

Lastly in the States - Sargent Major / Master Chief (petty officer) and/or Command MS / MC are extremely powerful positions and out rank a number of Commisioned Officers both officially and unofficially. Our military orbat does not impart such power / responsibilities to these ranks.
 

Waanar

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 4, 2019
Messages
2,710
Likes
16,959
Country flag
That is not entirely correct. USSF ODA's are lead by Majors and Col lead their squadron into combat. Same with Rangers and Airborne units
I'm pretty sure the officers work in an operational role for no more than 3 years in USSF and then rotate out to staff. Not sure about the rangers though.
 

_merlin_

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 30, 2015
Messages
29
Likes
101
Country flag
But here the non-commissioned Iawan can grow up to Subedar Major at best or unless they preform great in any sporting event they are then made honorable Major or something.
Honorary Captain
 
  • Like
Reactions: SKC

Latest Replies

Global Defence

New threads

Articles

Top