Indian Special Forces

samsaptaka

तस्मात् उत्तिष्ठ कौन्तेय युद्धाय कृतनिष्चय
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Fire and groove

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We need more men , more specialised transportation and more equipment . Roles of various SFs have already been defined in the army . Ghataks are organised as a platoon in every infantry battalion and are tasked with doing tactical operations which consolidates the position of a battlion during an offensive or while taking up defense of battalion positions , their actions have little to no strategic impact and their AoO is within a 10km radius of the Battalion HQ . Every para SF battalion operates in a specific environment and undertakes a specific role . 4 and 9 para operate along the LoC , 10 para operates in thar desert , similarly 21 para operates in NE . All battalions are already deployed in their respective AoOs . We had no para SF battalion to spare during the ladakh crisis and finally had to split a battalion from 50th para brigade to be sent to ladakh . They took time to acclimiatise and are now deployed there . Tomorrow if some problem crops up in sikkim or arunachal then we again will have no SF battalion to spare as all of them are already deployed in their area of operations . Taking them out of their area of operations and deploying them to a new area will raise many problems for them . They will have to familiarise with the terrain and work out new ops plans to deal with the enemy . Ideally we should have para SF battalions specialised in a certain role in all theatres
These theatres include
1) The Thar
2) Punjab
3) Kutch
4) ladakh
5) Kashmir
6) Central sector
7) Sikkim
8)north east ( Nagaland , Manipur)
9) arunachal
Our SF is of fine size and needs an expansion of two battalions to ensure all round protection of all the theatres
Again, SOF should never organised according to geographical deployments. Doing so automatically shoe-horns them into the constraints of a conventional fighting force with generalist approach to specialisation. If you don't organise them around a set of similar roles you're going to build a unit that can't fullfill any of them sufficiently when war hits.
Also, it's impossible for the Para SF's mandate to be set when there's no official framework for the entire military to structure around. What strategic duties will the Para SF fullfill when there's none demarcated?
 

armyofhind

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If you mean the role of Para SF then its the old school sabotaging stuff, we never bothered with FID.
That's incorrect. We did have significant emphasis on FID during the late 80s and 90s with Para SF presence in Africa and Afghanistan.

SF guys were there with Massoud for some time during the Afghan Civil War and left out only after the Green Berets landed there just before the GWOT was about to start.
Now whether that was as part of SG, or Para SF, on paper that is, but SF guys all the same.

There is significant memorabilia from both places at the SFTS Mess.

Even their role in the Kashmir militancy was far more strategic than what it is today, operating as part of undercover teams and coordinating with Ikhwans and Village defense teams for some time.
Ikhwan has been disbanded now but I'm sure some undercover work by SF still happens in Kashmir.

We have lost that edge from the start of 2000s when the utilisation of SF has primarily shifted to tactical roles.
 
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AlphaRaiderZ

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If you mean the role of Para SF then its the old school sabotaging stuff, we never bothered with FID.
Well General Joshi had a masterplan and started implementing it until his successor gave in to controversy pressure and work pressure and disbanded the battalion. If you notice properly , Marcos and Garuds are their own independent unit/organization , which enabled them to give proper decision more flexibily and with much agility , same goes for NSG . Even Ghataks took a very independent approach , but Para control over SF ruined their quality to the core
 

SGOperative

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Well General Joshi had a masterplan and started implementing it until his successor gave in to controversy pressure and work pressure and disbanded the battalion. If you notice properly , Marcos and Garuds are their own independent unit/organization , which enabled them to give proper decision more flexibily and with much agility , same goes for NSG . Even Ghataks took a very independent approach , but Para control over SF ruined their quality to the core
Gen BC Joshi was visionary, RR and idea to split Para SF and at that time only 3 Battalions existed of Para SF. It has to be done by force to separate them Airborne is not leaving them on their own.
 

SGOperative

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That's incorrect. We did have significant emphasis on FID during the late 80s and 90s with Para SF presence in Africa and Afghanistan.

SF guys were there with Massoud for some time during the Afghan Civil War and left out only after the Green Berets landed there just before the GWOT was about to start.
Now whether that was as part of SG, or Para SF, on paper that is, but SF guys all the same.

There is significant memorabilia from both places at the SFTS Mess.

Even their role in the Kashmir militancy was far more strategic than what it is today, operating as part of undercover teams and coordinating with Ikhwans and Village defense teams for some time.
Ikhwan has been disbanded now but I'm sure some undercover work by SF still happens in Kashmir.

We have lost that edge from the start of 2000s when the utilisation of SF has primarily shifted to tactical roles.
SG and SF is different is like saying CIA SAD doing means Green Berets doing tho there is good overlap b/w their roles. Para SF as a org does not has any FID element as far i can remember. They still do some good under cover op depending on how much free hand is given by command to them. From what i have collected the newer battalions baring the 4th have their working structure similar to a super infantry rather than a SF.
 

armyofhind

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SG and SF is different is like saying CIA SAD doing means Green Berets doing tho there is good overlap b/w their roles. Para SF as a org does not has any FID element as far i can remember. They still do some good under cover op depending on how much free hand is given by command to them. From what i have collected the newer battalions baring the 4th have their working structure similar to a super infantry rather than a SF.
I meant I'm not sure whether Afghanistan was SG. Africa was Para SF for sure.

The kind of role you are envisioning for Para SF in terms of strategic tasking, will open up only if India maintains a military presence in other nations, which we don't. That apart, domestic counter terrorism is the only strategic tasking that Para SF can get. That includes Special Recon, Taking out or capturing High Value targets, Intelligence gathering etc.

But I agree that they have been overworked for tactical roles in that as well. Primarily used as a emergency option when firefights with militants go south in Kashmir.
 

SGOperative

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I meant I'm not sure whether Afghanistan was SG. Africa was Para SF for sure.

The kind of role you are envisioning for Para SF in terms of strategic tasking, will open up only if India maintains a military presence in other nations, which we don't. That apart, domestic counter terrorism is the only strategic tasking that Para SF can get. That includes Special Recon, Taking out or capturing High Value targets, Intelligence gathering etc.

But I agree that they have been overworked for tactical roles in that as well. Primarily used as a emergency option when firefights with militants go south in Kashmir.
I am not asking for Para SF to be present in every other country but it works as a geo political tool. Even countries who are not involved in any conflict are starting to use their SF as a Geo Political tool.
And before everything i would like them to get their structure sorted out and the size being downsized.
 

AlphaRaiderZ

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I meant I'm not sure whether Afghanistan was SG. Africa was Para SF for sure.

The kind of role you are envisioning for Para SF in terms of strategic tasking, will open up only if India maintains a military presence in other nations, which we don't. That apart, domestic counter terrorism is the only strategic tasking that Para SF can get. That includes Special Recon, Taking out or capturing High Value targets, Intelligence gathering etc.

But I agree that they have been overworked for tactical roles in that as well. Primarily used as a emergency option when firefights with militants go south in Kashmir.
We have more than enough resources to actually perform emergency CI/CT and QRTs why are SF being diluted by top brass is a mystery for me
 

ManhattanProject

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We have more than enough resources to actually perform emergency CI/CT and QRTs why are SF being diluted by top brass is a mystery for me
Top brass still thinks being in the SF means shouting "Commando" and jumping through a burning hoop. They see the Rag Tag british commandos from ww2 and are stuck with that image.
 

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