Indian Special Forces

Gessler

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Yeah, that is the SOP for NSG HITs- point man has SF for sentry suppression.
Plus, in an inadvertent encounter with a hostile, discharging the suppressed weapon has overall a lesser chance of compromising the entry.

Of note is that the MP5SD is an integrally suppressed weapon that actively prevents the ammo from attaining supersonic velocity, so the amount of sound reduced is considerably more than just tacking on a add-on suppressor to a weapon with supersonic ammo.

Best solution is probably subsonic ammo, but while we haven't done that, this remains a pretty good stop-gap.
 

Waanar

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Plus, in an inadvertent encounter with a hostile, discharging the suppressed weapon has overall a lesser chance of compromising the entry.

Of note is that the MP5SD is an integrally suppressed weapon that actively prevents the ammo from attaining supersonic velocity, so the amount of sound reduced is considerably more than just tacking on a add-on suppressor to a weapon with supersonic ammo.

Best solution is probably subsonic ammo, but while we haven't done that, this remains a pretty good stop-gap.
MP5sd has remained in use unlike any other SMG I've seen before.
Seen SEALS running it as recently as 2014 (at least.)
That too in Afghanistan. (Where firefights can unfold at a PRETTY damn long range)
I'm sure it was a relatively safe area to carry it but still.
Apparently, DEVGRU AND CAG still have them in their inventory.

I've always been interested in SMG use by modern era SOFs.
Like... Bruh.. why?
 
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Waanar

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View attachment 111867
View attachment 111868
View attachment 111869


The guy on the front always gets the SD suppressed MP5 ?????
CQB follows the principle of Silence, violence, silence.

You try to keep signature to a minimum, then, if a firefight unfolds, you go full Indra's Vajra on their ass, then go silent again as long as you can maintain it and sheepishly act as if no one heard you, even if they did.

Sentry neutralization is of course a big part, but so is elimination of hostiles when you enter a room.
The point man carrying the suppressed SMG (and the MP5SD is Hollywood quiet) can neutralize a target in a room before the entire team floods in, and extend the duration of their stealth just a wee bit longer, preventing stuff like their teammates discharging their loud, unsuppressed weapons and sleeping tangos waking up, some turd popping up through a door way which wasn't secured yada yada.

I'm being overly boastful here because I absolutely LOVE their methodology. Makes a LOT of sense.
If they don't encounter a larger force in any room, they could run through the entire compound without ever being heard.

IMG_20210925_165927.jpg
 
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Hariharan_kalarikkal

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CQB follows the principle of Silence, violence, silence.

You try to keep signature to a minimum, then, if a firefight unfolds, you go full Indra's Vajra on their ass, then go silent again as long as you can maintain it and sheepishly act as if no one heard you, even if they did.

Sentry neutralization is of course a big part, but so is elimination of hostiles when you enter a room.
The point man carrying the suppressed SMG (and the MP5SD is Hollywood quiet) can neutralize a target in a room before the entire team floods in, and extend the duration of their stealth just a wee bit longer, preventing stuff like their teammates discharging their loud, unsuppressed weapons and sleeping tangos waking up, some turd popping up through a door way which wasn't secured yada yada.

I'm being overly boastful here because I absolutely LOVE their methodology. Makes a LOT of sense.
If they don't encounter a larger force in any room, they could run through the entire compound without ever being heard.

View attachment 111887
Noob question
Then wouldn't it make sense to buy suppressors for mpx and equip all of them instead of one guy for that kind of mission profile
You can switch to non suppressed weapons in different scenarios
 

rkhanna

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MP5sd has remained in use unlike any other SMG I've seen before.
Seen SEALS running it as recently as 2014 (at least.)
That too in Afghanistan. (Where firefights can unfold at a PRETTY damn long range)
I'm sure it was a relatively safe area to carry it but still.
Apparently, DEVGRU AND CAG still have them in their inventory.

I've always been interested in SMG use by modern era SOFs.
Like... Bruh.. why?
Well the SEALS have moved on to the MP7. Allows lethal engagement at a longer range. Is as quiet and reliable as the MP5 and has the same recoil characteristics as the MP5
 

Waanar

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Noob question
Then wouldn't it make sense to buy suppressors for mpx and equip all of them instead of one guy for that kind of mission profile
You can switch to non suppressed weapons in different scenarios
This is where the magic lies, my friend.

You can add a suppressor bigger than the gun to a gun but it will still make that supersonic crack and subsonic ammo isn't standard issue in the military.
Thus, MP5SD.
MP5SD has a vented barrel with holes right after the chamber of the barrel.
This allow the gas pressure to leak out and drops the bullet to subsonic velocity, thus avoiding the supersonic boom, even if you're using supersonic ammo.

Here's a picture of a MP5SD barrel (so you can see what I mean)-
images - 2021-09-25T171417.794.jpeg


No matter how good of a suppressor you have, it's only going to eliminate the sound of the gasses being thrown out of the barrel in pressure and not the supersonic crack of the bullet itself.

The only way to avoid that boom is to use either subsonic ammo or this thing of beauty.
The drawback is, since you're slowing down the bullet, the range and penetration suffers, hence the loud nibbas coming in from the back to wreck shit up in case the MP5SD proves a tad bit anemic.
 

Waanar

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Well the SEALS have moved on to the MP7. Allows lethal engagement at a longer range. Is as quiet and reliable as the MP5 and has the same recoil characteristics as the MP5
Mp7 does take like, half a mag to put one guy down.
In fact, SEALS have a saying of "One target one mag" for the MP7.
Shot placement is critical when you have a dinky lil 4.6 mm projectile.

On the other hand, the wound cavity by 9mm at close ranges is much more effective. (Arguably)
 

MisraZ

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This is where the magic lies, my friend.

You can add a suppressor bigger than the gun to a gun but it will still make that supersonic crack and subsonic ammo isn't standard issue in the military.
Thus, MP5SD.
MP5SD has a vented barrel with holes right after the chamber of the barrel.
This allow the gas pressure to leak out and drops the bullet to subsonic velocity, thus avoiding the supersonic boom, even if you're using supersonic ammo.

Here's a picture of a MP5SD barrel (so you can see what I mean)-View attachment 111888

No matter how good of a suppressor you have, it's only going to eliminate the sound of the gasses being thrown out of the barrel in pressure and not the supersonic crack of the bullet itself.

The only way to avoid that boom is to use either subsonic ammo or this thing of beauty.
The drawback is, since you're slowing down the bullet, the range and penetration suffers, hence the loud nibbas coming in from the back to wreck shit up in case the MP5SD proves a tad bit anemic.
Video for visual reference. (4:38sec)


++

 
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Gessler

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Mp7 does take like, half a mag to put one guy down.
In fact, SEALS have a saying of "One target one mag" for the MP7.
Shot placement is critical when you have a dinky lil 4.6 mm projectile.

On the other hand, the wound cavity by 9mm at close ranges is much more effective. (Arguably)
Adrenaline.

From what I've read, whether the target is actively in combat or unaware of what's going on makes all the difference when it comes to MP7's effectiveness - wrt whether it takes half a mag or just 2-3 rounds.
 

abingdonboy

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CQB follows the principle of Silence, violence, silence.

You try to keep signature to a minimum, then, if a firefight unfolds, you go full Indra's Vajra on their ass, then go silent again as long as you can maintain it and sheepishly act as if no one heard you, even if they did.

Sentry neutralization is of course a big part, but so is elimination of hostiles when you enter a room.
The point man carrying the suppressed SMG (and the MP5SD is Hollywood quiet) can neutralize a target in a room before the entire team floods in, and extend the duration of their stealth just a wee bit longer, preventing stuff like their teammates discharging their loud, unsuppressed weapons and sleeping tangos waking up, some turd popping up through a door way which wasn't secured yada yada.

I'm being overly boastful here because I absolutely LOVE their methodology. Makes a LOT of sense.
If they don't encounter a larger force in any room, they could run through the entire compound without ever being heard.

View attachment 111887
I believe that PARA (SF) have adoored this principle too thanks to NSG hence why you will often see the number 1 and 2 in a stack with suppressors on their weapons ( either micro Uzi or Tavor/M4).

one day an Indian unit might wake up to the fact that is the 21st century where SBRs and subsonic rounds exist
 

abingdonboy

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The only way to avoid that boom is to use either subsonic ammo or this thing of beauty.
The drawback is, since you're slowing down the bullet, the range and penetration suffers, hence the loud nibbas coming in from the back to wreck shit up in case the MP5SD proves a tad bit anemic.
I like the way you put that especially when you think that the guy with the SIG-55X in the HIT stack will usually he number 5/6, if 1-4 doesn’t get the job done I guess.

that said I’m not really sure if there’s much utility in having 3 different weapon options in a single team, I understand the K9 and other support staff having the MP-5Ks but don’t see a reason why they can’t all just have a SBR with modern suppressors. They could actually operate in a similar manner- number 1/2 could be issued with subsonic ammo to retain the sentry suppression element of their doctrine.
 

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